A difference in opinion...thread spilt

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-08-24 05:13am

Durran Korr wrote:Who cares if it has been dead, anyway...DBZ is still alive and kicking in Japan and has been for years, but that doesn't change the fact that it's crap.

If its crap then why is it well liked? Unwarranted Negative personal opinions on a franchise have little value.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-08-24 12:18pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:Who cares if it has been dead, anyway...DBZ is still alive and kicking in Japan and has been for years, but that doesn't change the fact that it's crap.
If its crap then why is it well liked? Unwarranted Negative personal opinions on a franchise have little value.

Popularity is not a basis for ascertaining the value of something.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2003-08-24 01:16pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:Who cares if it has been dead, anyway...DBZ is still alive and kicking in Japan and has been for years, but that doesn't change the fact that it's crap.
If its crap then why is it well liked? Unwarranted Negative personal opinions on a franchise have little value.

Cos it's big band bright and has lots of fighting in it.

Even if it is shitly drawn...

Anyway, in the game, the 2d/3d thing...will it be like say a 3d fighting game like enter the matrix when in the "action" part and resident evil esque fixed camera povs on 2d backgrounds in the story parts?

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-08-24 06:46pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:If its crap then why is it well liked? Unwarranted Negative personal opinions on a franchise have little value.

It's crap because:
1) Poor writing.
2) B-grade Artwork.
3) Minimal story.

I can't really account for its popularity, but neither can I account for the popularity of many things. Dragonball was good, but when it moved into Dragonball Z and tried to be taken seriously, it became fairly obvious that the talents of the author were in comedic adventures.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-08-24 07:48pm

the writing was good, you have to look at the intended audience. You can say Barney or Sesame street is written like crap for a audience over the age of ten,but the younger audiences eat that shit up.

Popularity is not the value for ascertaining value? Even though I hate to admit it Popularity is one of the strongest ways to ascertain value. People come up with shows like that to appeal to the masses, not to the standards of an individual. And since the Dragonball Franchise is one of the most powerful franchises of its kind I would say it has a lot of value.

Just for the Record,

DB- I like
DBz- Just for the Fights
GT- crap

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-08-24 08:28pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:the writing was good, you have to look at the intended audience. You can say Barney or Sesame street is written like crap for a audience over the age of ten,but the younger audiences eat that shit up.

Are you trying to make my point for me? Writing intended for children is simplified crap by the standards of real writing. Why don't you compare The Very Hungry Catepillar to Crime and Punishment

Popularity is not the value for ascertaining value? Even though I hate to admit it Popularity is one of the strongest ways to ascertain value. People come up with shows like that to appeal to the masses, not to the standards of an individual. And since the Dragonball Franchise is one of the most powerful franchises of its kind I would say it has a lot of value.

Justin Timberlake sells better than Bob Dylan. Finding Nemo handily beat Shindler's List in terms of box-office gross.

Popularity is an indication of mass appeal, not quality.

Just for the Record,

DB- I like
DBz- Just for the Fights

It's good that you like the fights, because there's nothing else there.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-08-24 08:38pm

DBZ's fights might have been enjoyable if there were only a few of them, rather than literally hundreds.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-08-24 10:41pm

Pablo Sanchez wrote: Are you trying to make my point for me? Writing intended for children is simplified crap by the standards of real writing. Why don't you compare The Very Hungry Catepillar to Crime and Punishment

Just because it is intended for Children does NOT make it crap, it can be well done in a style intended for younger viewers I amnot making your point for you, rather, you fail to see mine.

Justin Timberlake sells better than Bob Dylan. Finding Nemo handily beat Shindler's List in terms of box-office gross.

Popularity is an indication of mass appeal, not quality.

Yet Schindlers list and Bob Dylan both had Mass Appeal compared to others when they were out. Bob Dylan doesn't make much in the way of new music these days and had a smaller market to appeal to when he was in his prime. Finding nemo has the advantage of inflated ticket prices and is targeted towards a larger audience, especially since the audience for Schindlers list was restricted.

Your reference fails also because Dragonball Z has been a well known and popular franchise for around fifteen years, whereas Justin Timberlake was recently booed off the stage in Toronto, not to mention the fact that he no longer sells well.

Mass Appeal for nearly twenty years with multiple generations in the fan base is an indication that the series does indeed have some value. Hell if it had no value at all then why was there nearly three hundred episodes?

Just for the Record,

DB- I like
DBz- Just for the Fights

It's good that you like the fights, because there's nothing else there.[/quote]

Im so glad you are there to reiterate what my own opinion is, otherwise I would forget so easily.

but I digress, and i will no longer go off topic on this thread.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-08-24 11:09pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:Just because it is intended for Children does NOT make it crap, it can be well done in a style intended for younger viewers I amnot making your point for you, rather, you fail to see mine.

Good for children's stories is very poor for adult's stories. You want to shift the standard we're judging DBZ by to that of a children's show. I think this is our fundamental problem. Let's say DBZ is an orange, and Eva is a steak dinner; I'm trying to tell you that the steak dinner makes a better meal, so you reply that the orange is very tasty for it's size. Sorry about the analogy, but that's one way to get it across.

Yet Schindlers list and Bob Dylan both had Mass Appeal compared to others when they were out. Bob Dylan doesn't make much in the way of new music these days and had a smaller market to appeal to when he was in his prime. Finding nemo has the advantage of inflated ticket prices and is targeted towards a larger audience, especially since the audience for Schindlers list was restricted.

Even in relative success for their time and audience size both Schindler's list and Dylan did not perform as well as the low-quality examples I gave.

Your reference fails also because Dragonball Z has been a well known and popular franchise for around fifteen years, whereas Justin Timberlake was recently booed off the stage in Toronto, not to mention the fact that he no longer sells well.

Longevity is a sign of quality? Strom Thurmond kept being reelected long after he became a zombie. People still eat McDonalds despite the availability of superior alternatives.

Mass Appeal for nearly twenty years with multiple generations in the fan base is an indication that the series does indeed have some value. Hell if it had no value at all then why was there nearly three hundred episodes?

Now you're confusing quantity with quality.

This whole post is just an appeal to popularity. What themes does Dragonball communicate? Watch a series like Bebop or Eva, or even a much lighter one like Yu Yu Hakusho and you'll see a lot more substance.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-08-25 01:45am

God fucking damn it, don't hijack an Eva thread to talk about Dragon Ball...

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-08-25 02:02am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:God fucking damn it, don't hijack an Eva thread to talk about Dragon Ball...

Please relax Spanky.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-08-25 02:08am

I did put in the Announcement that I can be called on to split threads, and so did my faithful fellow Fantasy mod. Let's turn the tempers down a notch, mmkay?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-08-25 02:08am

I am relaxed. If I wasn't relaxed, then I'd be yelling.

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-08-25 02:25am

DBZ- we fit 5 minutes worth of story into 5 episodes, it's just THAT GOOD!

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-08-25 09:47am

SyntaxVorlon wrote:DBZ- we fit 5 minutes worth of story into 5 episodes, it's just THAT GOOD!

And 30 minutes of Goku lying on the ground groaning in the same 5 episodes

.