Alucard vs Lasombra Elder

SecondStorm · Post by **SecondStorm** » 2003-09-07 02:52am

Ill be the first to admit that the WW rules arnt exactly the most consistent though.
They are rough estimates to be able to play the game smoothly . They are not meant to stand up to deep scrutiny.

I think I need to apologize to Connor though. I went into this debate with the intention to find something to add to my games. He had something entirely different on his mind I think(calculating the Kindred Strength using realistic terms) unless Im mistaken.
Am i totally off target Connor?

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-09-07 03:07am

yes. You have to make your intentions clear if you arent here for a debate. When you enter a thread and start accusing someone of being wrong, you are challenging them. I'm trying to point out that the chart and alot of the other evidence is open to a fair bit of interpretation (thus neccessitating a number and range of values, which is okay because thats basically what sci fi analysis does.)

I'm not holding grudges here, but I'm not polite when it seems someone is bullshitting me. Still, I know its not easy to apologize so I can respect that much, and offer one as well for being rude.

SecondStorm · Post by **SecondStorm** » 2003-09-07 03:30am

Thx

.
I hope I didnt kill the thread though. Quantifying the Kindreds strengths and weaknesses would save some time in these vs debates.

Symmetry · Post by **Symmetry** » 2003-09-07 07:51pm

Connor MacLeod wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:I think he's refering to the accuracy of the gun, not simple range.
Yeah, but isn't that just a matter of the tolerences the gun is built to? I mean, sure, it would be really hard to get a 10" barrel to be that accurate, but thats just a matter of throwing money at the project, nothing undoable.
You should talk to Rob Wilson. He's the one whom I discussed it with (his knowledge of ballistics being infinitely superior to mine insofar as I know.)

All I can really point out is that if your theory was true, why are there no handguns with a mile range? The only kind of rifle I know of that can do that is an Antimaterial rifle.

I'm not an expert on this either, all I really know about air resistence is that sleeker is better and that its porportional to v^2 at high velocities. I'm quite sure that even if a pistol was accurate enough, no normal person has good enough muscle control to hit something at 1Km with a pistol.

Oh, and are you sure that only A/M rifles can hit someothing up to one mile? I'm believe that .50 caliber sniper rifles can hit something that far out (or are .50s automatically classes as A/M).

(we should also note that the only class of guns nearly as heavy as Alucard's - ie 16 kilo - are AMRs. And while this isn't exactly proof neccesarily, the Hellsing RPG guide has Alucard's guns as being comparable in power to Seras' rifle, which is definitely an AMR - 13.7 mm supposedly, but probably either a modified Barret light .50 or a Steyr 14.5 mm)

As powerful as Seras' Rifle

! Oh, you mean her "small rifle

. Yeah, that does sound about right, though power's relation to range is mediated by the bullet's diameter, length, and speed. I would really like to hear someone authoritative speak on this.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-09-07 11:23pm

Symmetry wrote: I'm not an expert on this either, all I really know about air resistence is that sleeker is better and that its porportional to v^2 at high velocities.

That's part of it. A pistol round like Alucard's Casull is not quite shaped well for long-range. Thus it needs brute power.

I know what you really need to make it work is hypersonic velocity to allow a flat trajectory.

I'm quite sure that even if a pistol was accurate enough, no normal person has good enough muscle control to hit something at 1Km with a pistol.

That too, at least with terms of eyesight (you'd need a scope.)

Oh, and are you sure that only A/M rifles can hit someothing up to one mile? I'm believe that .50 caliber sniper rifles can hit something that far out (or are .50s automatically classes as A/M).

If you mean .50 BMG rounds, then yes, they fall into the AMR range (the Barret light Fifty is a AMR, and chambered for the .50 BMG.)

On top of that, we know that the Jackal is too much gun for any human (and a 14" barrel too) to handle. AT a minimum, its stronger than the most powerful handgun in teh world, and quite possibly stronger than even most rifles. but even the most powerful handgun or rifle (short of AMR) would not allow the kind of range it needs. Hence, AMR.

As powerful as Seras' Rifle ! Oh, you mean her "small rifle . Yeah, that does sound about right, though power's relation to range is mediated by the bullet's diameter, length, and speed. I would really like to hear someone authoritative speak on this.

Yeah. Although recall that the Halconnen uses a number of different shells, so the damage comparison isn't neccearily exact in that example even if I had meant it.

And as I said, if you doubt me, you could try asking Rob. But I know what the answer you're going to get is