Lord of the Rings: Wizard Colours ?

[2000AD]

Does the colour of the wizard (eg. Gandalf the GREY) denote their rank or their area of expertese?

If it is their rank can anyone tell me if there is a rank between grey and white.
If it is area of expertese is there somewhere where i can find a list of colours and the corresponding area?

[Crazedwraith]

Does the colour of the wizard (eg. Gandalf the GREY) denote their rank or their area of expertese?

If it is their rank can anyone tell me if there is a rank between grey and white.
If it is area of expertese is there somewhere where i can find a list of colours and the corresponding area?

No idea.
Thogh its proberly rank or level of skills.
Theres not noe between grey and white if its rank. As gandalf was "promoted" to white after defeating the balrog and sauruman's corruption

[2000AD]

Saruman declared himself to be Saruman the Many Colours (doesn't have the same ring to it IMO) so is that a higher rank than WHite?

[Gil Hamilton]

No, it doesn't.

[2000AD]

I take it that means "no, many colours is not higher than White".

[Vendetta]

It seems to be a representation of their role in the war of the ring.

Saruman (AKA Curumo/Curunir) was the original leader of the White Council, and was held as Saruman the White. His early presentation is as a sort of oracle and leader.

Gandalf the Grey (AKA Olórin/Mithrandir) was a wanderer, who associated with the peoples of middle earth, but rarely a leader figure, more as a companion and guide. After his physical body expires, he returns to the lands of the Valar, but is sent back to take up the leadership role, and becomes the White.

Radagast the Brown (AKA Aiwendil) is the friend of animals. He's only mentioned a couple of times in The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, his role is more towards the druidic, protector of nature.

Allatar and Palando both had the same role in the war, they went to the east to stir up rebellion among the Haradrim and other Easterlings. They were both Blue Wizards. Beyond where they went, we know stuff all about what happens to them.

[2000AD]

I like Vendetta's explaination.

I've also done some googling and came up with this:

Perhaps we could extrapolate their powers using an Elemental assignment:

Gandalf - Fire (Red/Gray) Traditionally considered the alignment of those interested in Alchemy (especially Spiritual & Transformatonal Alchemy) and the Fire that motivates our highest aspirations and endeavors.
<something to do with that "Wielder of the Flame of Arnor" thing?>

Saruman - AIr (White/Silver) Traditionally considered the alignment of those interested in esoteric Lore and Knowledge

Radagast - Earth (Brown/Yellow) Traditionally assigned to those interested in the Lore of the Natural world (i.e. Beasts & Birds)

Pallando/Allatar - Water (Blue/Green) - Traditionally assigned to the Lore of Water and Transformation

Allatar/Pallando - Spirit (Blue/Green) Traditionally considered a "Teaching" alignment

Is there any basis for this from any Tolkien books?

[Gil Hamilton]

Well, Gandalf's "wielder of the secret flame" bit was reference to one the Elven Rings he secretly possessed, Narya, the Elven Ring of Fire.

[Crayz9000]

And if you go by the Angband spoilers, both Narya and Glamdring granted resistance to fire, thus explaining why the Balrog didn't bother him much

(waits for people to not get the joke)

[neoolong]

Well, Gandalf's "wielder of the secret flame" bit was reference to one the Elven Rings he secretly possessed, Narya, the Elven Ring of Fire.

That's not very secret if he goes around telling people about it.

[El Moose Monstero]

Was it the Flame of Arnor or the Flame of Anor? As I recall, the sun/last seed of the golden tree was called Anor, maybe Gandalf's expertise with fireworks, fire-based abilities and holder of the ring of fire was a statement of that.

[Vendetta]

It's Anor.

Anor is Númenorean for "sun"

It's most probably a reference to Narya.

[Balrog]

Well, Gandalf's "wielder of the secret flame" bit was reference to one the Elven Rings he secretly possessed, Narya, the Elven Ring of Fire.

That's not very secret if he goes around telling people about it.

Well just about the only people he was telling was the Fellowship and the Balrog, who he later killed.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

"'You cannot pass,' he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. 'I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass."
Gandalf's challenge to the Balrog
from The Fellowship of the Ring II 5 The Bridge of Khazad-dûm

According to the Ecyclopedia of Arda, neither refer to Narya.

Secret Fire:
A mysterious power, never explained in detail, that seems to represent the principle of existence and creation. Little can be said of it for certain, though it seems to be identified with, or at least connected to, the Flame Imperishable of Ilúvatar. When Gandalf met the Balrog on the Bridge of Khazad-dûm, he spoke of himself as a servant of the Secret Fire. It has been conjectured that these words referred to his fire-ring Narya, but it seems unlikely that he would reveal this to a bitter enemy. More plausibly, Gandalf's words identify him as a servant of the power of Ilúvatar.

Flame of Anor:
A mysterious power claimed by Gandalf in the face of Durin's Bane. It is nowhere else referred to, and so its particular meaning remains unclear. Anor is the Sun, and so literally the 'flame of Anor' would be the light of the Sun, the fiery fruit of Laurelin, one of the Two Trees of Valinor. Gandalf seems to be referring, then, to the power he gains as a servant of the Lords of the West, in defiance to the corrupted darkness of the Balrog.

Oh, and that colours/elementals example 2000AD found is one of the worst cases of post-hoc speculation bullshit I've ever seen...

[2000AD]

Oh, and that colours/elementals example 2000AD found is one of the worst cases of post-hoc speculation bullshit I've ever seen...

I'll through that out of the window then.

[greenmm]

"'You cannot pass,' he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. 'I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass."
Gandalf's challenge to the Balrog
from The Fellowship of the Ring II 5 The Bridge of Khazad-dûm

According to the Ecyclopedia of Arda, neither refer to Narya.

Secret Fire:
A mysterious power, never explained in detail, that seems to represent the principle of existence and creation. Little can be said of it for certain, though it seems to be identified with, or at least connected to, the Flame Imperishable of Ilúvatar. When Gandalf met the Balrog on the Bridge of Khazad-dûm, he spoke of himself as a servant of the Secret Fire. It has been conjectured that these words referred to his fire-ring Narya, but it seems unlikely that he would reveal this to a bitter enemy. More plausibly, Gandalf's words identify him as a servant of the power of Ilúvatar.

Flame of Anor:
A mysterious power claimed by Gandalf in the face of Durin's Bane. It is nowhere else referred to, and so its particular meaning remains unclear. Anor is the Sun, and so literally the 'flame of Anor' would be the light of the Sun, the fiery fruit of Laurelin, one of the Two Trees of Valinor. Gandalf seems to be referring, then, to the power he gains as a servant of the Lords of the West, in defiance to the corrupted darkness of the Balrog.

That's kind of what I always assumed, since he was originally a "lesser" deity-type figure (same source that Sauron and the Balrog came from initially, lower than Morgoth and the Valar but not by much), and his specialty was always fire (IIRC, when they were stuck on the mountain, didn't he say that his use of a spell to light the piece of wood was a "signal" that announced his presence to anyone within hundreds of miles sensitive to magic?).

And yes, the knowledge that he had the Ring of Fire was a very closely guarded secret. Elrond's possession of the blue ring was an open secret, and Galadriel's possession of the white ring suspected by a few but known by even less; but IIRC, Frodo, Aragorn, and company didn't even know Gandalf had the Ring of Fire until after Sauron was defeated, if not until Gandalf, Elrond, Galadriel and the rest showed up to escort Frodo to the Grey Havens...

[Faram]

And if you go by the Angband spoilers, both Narya and Glamdring granted resistance to fire, thus explaining why the Balrog didn't bother him much

(waits for people to not get the joke)

For those that don't get it go here:

http://www.thangorodrim.net/

Gandalf was putting on a show for the Fellowship. With Narya and its immunity to fire, he had nothing to fear from Muar. He obviously had some ulterior motive, probably to cover up the fact that his Cheat Death option is on.

[2000AD]

Is that angorodim thing a computer game?

[Crayz9000]

Angband, and yes, it's basically a loosely D&D-based computer game with ASCII graphics (or tile graphics) set in a pseudo-Tolkien environment.