US military in EVA

AniThyng · Post by **AniThyng** » 2003-09-15 12:36pm

this was inspired by a post somewhere in the "nukes in eva thread"...

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the aircraft carrier "Over the Rainbow" and her Captain/Admiral at least nominally american, seconded to UN command?
aside from being an obviously american carrier design, i recall in one episode her captain (or he could be an admiral with his flag on board, i'm not sure) commented sadly that "congress" was going to approve construction of an EVA unit

to me that pretty much confirmed that he at least is an american naval officer, since i can't think of any other nationality relevent who would refer to "congress". (or it could be a translation quirk. i haven't seen the ep in a long time so i can't remember what he really 'said', but the translation was "congress")

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-09-15 01:03pm

Over the Rainbow and the rest of the ships were part of the UN Fleet (or was it the UN Pacific Fleet? I haven't seen the episode in a while, either).

IIRC, America is never mentioned as a military power, only as a nation and as a partner in the Human Complementation Project, and to a lesser extent, the E Project.

Rainbow's Captain and first officer are indeed American in national origin, but that in itself is not evidence that the US still exists as a military power.

"Congress" could refer to a body inside the UN, or it could refer to the Congress of the US government, which may still exist, and it doesn't seem out of the question that Congress would need to approve the proposal for the US to construct EVA-06.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-09-15 03:51pm

That episode is easily one of my least favorite in the series.

AniThyng · Post by **AniThyng** » 2003-09-15 04:58pm

I'm just wondering when the Lone Warrior stereotype became Japanese, myself. I'm not going to get into the question of whether Japan at large has accepted it's past, but seriously, this is America, home of the Western. When the fuck did a Lone Warrior Saving The Day become some other nation's thing?

then of course there's Rambo

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-09-15 04:58pm

Tangent on the jingoism of anime split.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-09-15 05:02pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Over the Rainbow and the rest of the ships were part of the UN Fleet (or was it the UN Pacific Fleet? I haven't seen the episode in a while, either).

IIRC, America is never mentioned as a military power, only as a nation and as a partner in the Human Complementation Project, and to a lesser extent, the E Project.

Rainbow's Captain and first officer are indeed American in national origin, but that in itself is not evidence that the US still exists as a military power.

"Congress" could refer to a body inside the UN, or it could refer to the Congress of the US government, which may still exist, and it doesn't seem out of the question that Congress would need to approve the proposal for the US to construct EVA-06.

It was probably American and just an eleborate side step to fit with the cultural mindset of Japan.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2003-09-15 05:14pm

Stormbringer wrote: It was probably American and just an eleborate side step to fit with the cultural mindset of Japan.

No, it was specifically said to be the UN Pacific fleet. Very few organizations and governments, if any, had much power or capabilities in 2015 unless they were backed up by SEELE (Ie, USA's 2 NERV branches, testing of units 03 and 04, and production of unit 06). The same deal goes for any other country in the world at the time. And even if that fleet was chiefly maintianed by Americans, it was specifically part of the UN.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-09-15 05:16pm

Darth Utsanomiko wrote:
Stormbringer wrote: It was probably American and just an eleborate side step to fit with the cultural mindset of Japan.
No, it was specifically said to be the UN Pacific fleet. Very few organizations and governments, if any, had much power or capabilities in 2015 unless they were backed up by SEELE (Ie, USA's 2 NERV branches, testing of units 03 and 04, and production of unit 06). The same deal goes for any other country in the world at the time. And even if that fleet was chiefly maintianed by Americans, it was specifically part of the UN.

I'm not familiar with the particulars of NGE. But even your post suggests it's an American carrier in a UN suit.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2003-09-15 05:21pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Darth Utsanomiko wrote:
Stormbringer wrote: It was probably American and just an eleborate side step to fit with the cultural mindset of Japan.
No, it was specifically said to be the UN Pacific fleet. Very few organizations and governments, if any, had much power or capabilities in 2015 unless they were backed up by SEELE (Ie, USA's 2 NERV branches, testing of units 03 and 04, and production of unit 06). The same deal goes for any other country in the world at the time. And even if that fleet was chiefly maintianed by Americans, it was specifically part of the UN.
I'm not familiar with the particulars of NGE. But even your post suggests it's an American carrier in a UN suit.

The carrier was about 14-15 years old, so it could technically be a US naval ship merged with the UN's significantly upped role once Second Impact occurred and half the population was wiped out in resulting disasters/nukes/war/etc.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-09-15 05:22pm

Darth Utsanomiko wrote:The carrier was about 14-15 years old, so it could technically be a US naval ship merged with the UN's significantly upped role once Second Impact occurred and half the population was wiped out in resulting disasters/nukes/war/etc.

So in other words, yes, it's American.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2003-09-15 06:04pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Darth Utsanomiko wrote:The carrier was about 14-15 years old, so it could technically be a US naval ship merged with the UN's significantly upped role once Second Impact occurred and half the population was wiped out in resulting disasters/nukes/war/etc.
So in other words, yes, it's American.

Only in the sence that the fleet operates in/around America and utilizes a lot of American personell. It's like arguing that Germany's NERV branch was German; yeah, it's German because it's in Germany and there's mostly German staff there, but the organization is itself NERV and therefore run by NERV (and ultimatly SEELE), not the remains of the German government.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-09-15 07:17pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Darth Utsanomiko wrote:The carrier was about 14-15 years old, so it could technically be a US naval ship merged with the UN's significantly upped role once Second Impact occurred and half the population was wiped out in resulting disasters/nukes/war/etc.
So in other words, yes, it's American.

No, it used to be American. Now it's part of the UN military. Like Uts said, it was American in origin, but after Second Impact the new UN absorbed the military forces of virtually all nations as part of their restructuring.

The US (and many other nations) hasn't existed as a military power for at least 5-10 years. Everything has been absorbed by the UN, and is under their authority.

Macross · Post by **Macross** » 2003-09-15 11:22pm

Lets not forget that the fighters onboard looked Russian.

AniThyng · Post by **AniThyng** » 2003-09-16 10:14am

u know...come to think fo it...in most cases, the JSDF itself is rarely mentioned also, and when it is, it's really also playing the poor military abt to be stomped by monster role...(ala blue seed and narutaru)

in series like gundam all the mecha are also under UN command, never under say...Japan's command explicitly.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2003-09-16 02:38pm

AniThyng wrote:in series like gundam all the mecha are also under UN command, never under say...Japan's command explicitly.

Actually in Mobile Suit Gundam, the Earth, moon, and Island III colonies are divided between the Earth Federation and the Principality of Zeon, but that series is a special case.

It really more or less depends on how much creative effort was spent on coming up with the setting; just like in the US, if whomever writes the series doesn't invest time into either creating unique situations or properly weaving a backstory into the setting, most shows/films/stories will typically revert to some kind of standardized setting for the genre. That's why most American Sci-fi is mind-numblingly repetitive and mangas really need to up their quality/quantity ratio.

AniThyng · Post by **AniThyng** » 2003-09-17 07:24am

true. but in gundams case generally Earth Fed is just another name for a hyperpowered UN.

[off topic]
hmm..the quality/quantity ratio, i'll say one thing: at the very least even if the story is weak, i can still enjoy the artwork.

when it comes to sci-fi/fantasy novels, i've despaired at the lack of really good stuff lately. i'm a pretty voracious reader but i don't have that kind of time to slog through paragraphs of generally tedious/crappy prose to gain a rehashed story at the end...
(like turtledove. so wordly and repetitive his prose is, but i'm keeping at it because i'm really into the alternate history thing..)

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-09-17 07:29am

No, it generally isn't...

AniThyng · Post by **AniThyng** » 2003-09-17 11:32pm

No, it generally isn't...

okay, i'm going to concede that because i'm probably not going to be able to counter effectively without doing more research and rewatching which i don'thave time to do...