ARRGH (ROTK spoilers)

[Tsyroc]

The breaking of the gates was suppossed to trigger the confrontation between Gandalf and the Witch King...where the fuck was that...It would have been great: Gandalf faces down Sauron's chief lieutenant...darkness is all over the city..then suddenly silence as a cock crows, the sun breaks through the darkness and the horns of Rohan sound...its perfect and Jackson couldn't fucking take the time to work it? Christ its one of the titanic showdowns in the novel and his fuckup leads to my second complaint:

I'm wondering if some part of that scene was filmed but edited out of the theatrical version of the movie. Because I'm pretty sure that this shot from the sneak peak on the TTT DVD wasn't in the film I saw.

Gandolf/Pippen/Nazgul

Gandolf/Pippen/Nazgul2

I seem to recall Peter Jackson saying something about the making the last movie as long as it needs to be. Apparently New Line didn't listen or thought he was joking until they had to make him cut it short. RotK more than the other two movies looked like it was seriously cut down in places.

[D.Turtle]

I think the battle at Minas Tirith was severely shortened. Following things are missing(or those are the ones I noticed):

1) Driving back of the Nazgul (They are just suddenly gone)

2) Driving back of the Orcs who were in the Siege Towers (They are just suddenly gone and the gate is being attacked)

3) The defenders being gradually forced back through the defensive rings (They lose the first ring, are driven back to the second, and are then suddenly at the last ring (I think)).

Those I noticed, could be more though

[BlackWarMewtwo]

To wilkens: I kinda got the impression in the Green Dragon as they looked around and such that they themselves felt like outsiders, from all their glances and such. And I don't remember any of their fellow Hobbits paying much attention to them. But that's just me. *shrug*

Right, a movie can say in brief images what books need chapters for. One scene that told as much (or close to it, at least) as that entire section of the books.

[Coalition]

For the Shire not being scoured, I thought it looked good. Here are Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin, trying to have a drink in a tavern (similar to FotR). Their friends, that they have known for decades, are all around them, talking, joking, and getting along, while the four of them are just sitting there, silent. They are realizing that they have nothing in common with their friends, and that fact is slowly sinking in.

That part about Eowyn saying"I'm not a man", then stabbing the Witch-King, could have been more like a distraction. His confidence was part of the mythology, and when she showed herself, he paused for a moment, and that was enough for her to strike.

For the battering ram at Minas Tirith, one thing the cartoon had, was the ram drooling lava, like a Balrog had been bound into the weapon. That might have been cool to add, watching the fiery drool, or spraying when it hit the door.

True, Denethor was shown as greedy and afraid (to me). He seemed creepy enough without the Palantir, and showed another part of humanity. He was threatened with losing his position, the one son he had loved was gone, after falling to the ring, Faramir was suggesting the opposite of his orders (and Faramir was right, too), and Gandalf smacked him upside the head a few times and took over. He was just a cowardly spoiled brat.

I will concede though, that the Palantir would have enhanced that. You would have Aragorn looking into a Palantir, and Denethor seeing Aragorn as well, and knowing that his position is lost. From there, you would see Denethor slowly betraying Minas Tirith to Sauron, and Sauron feeding trhe guy's paranoias (If you achieve a massive victory, Aragorn will have no reason to demand the kingship back, and Gandalf will be helpless), or similar stuff.

Also, is it me, or did they love doing vertical shots in the movie?

Some stuff that could have improved Minas Tirith's defenses:

1) move all civilians to the final defense ring, along with as much provisions as possible (keeps unnecessary casualties out of the way, and saves them for later)
2) Have archer teams stationed near the Arbalests (MT stone throwers) to deal with the Nazghul (nothing like a dozen arrows every time you get near the fortress), and every level. True, the arrows will fall, but those Nazghul will leaqrn respect.
3) Extra civilians to serve as a firefighting brigade
4) Have backup catapults and similar made up for inner defenses
5) Have shot holes made in the doors, so you can open it, shoot an arrow out, and close them quickly
6) Archers to deal with the ropes holding the battering ram

I will admit, I go archer crazy when defending a fixed fortification, and that has blinded me to other options. Anyone else got ideas?

In Lords of Magic, I always play Life, as that gives me Elven archers. Those guys can cover ~1/3 the distance across the battlefield, and they fier fairly quickly too. I wind up taking a combat type person, and the rest as Elven archers, for my groups.

[CJvR]

Anyone else got ideas?

Yeah, don't use the gates as the first line of defence - they are to weak.

Checkout old Byzantian and Crusader fortresses, assaulting those gates would have required Angmar's entire army and in the end it would have been easier for the few survivors to climb over the walls simply due to the immense pile of corpses in front of the gates.

Minas Tirith isn't a very well designed fortress, not much better than the Hornburg.

[D.Turtle]

If you watch the scene where the battering ram is at the gate, you can see orc archers on it shooting arrows up at the defenders.

At the same time you see LOTS fo arrows coming down from the defenders.

[Gandalf]

I thought on the whole it was ok. The battle felt way too short, though I liked that they included the head flinging,

I missed the Scouring of The Shire, it conveyed the idea that even though you save the world, shit happens. You can't win 'em all.