Batman v Superman - Now with spoilers and plot discussion!

[Elheru Aran]

Perhaps I overstate it somewhat; the general reaction *before* the film came out was fairly negative, after actually watching it most viewers were inclined to view the portrayal in a more positive manner. And Ledger's Oscar was posthumous; if his death hadn't been massively publicized, it's quite possible he may not have won, although being nominated is nice.

I can't say I've followed the comics particularly closely, but 'dark' portrayals of the Joker do seem to have increased in the years since TDK came out. Whether that's from TDK being massively influential or rather from a general slide towards darkness in DC Comics I can't quite say, but I do think TDK played a part. Really, the whole tone of the Nolan-verse was influential in this regard.

The cutting-off-the-face bit is part of the New 52 reboot, as I vaguely recall. That is a whole other kettle of very messy fish right there. Although I do think they're going to play with some elements of that in this film-- Batman is active for some time before the superheroes start up their thing in Justice League, which means the timeline of the New 52 universe is ridiculously wacky. I wish they'd dump it and give Superman his red underpants back... kinda-sorta looks like they may be headed that way, but like I said, I don't really keep up with comics that much.

Well, I just checked, they *are* ending it, they should have started over by now. Huh. Now Batman has... a suit of power armour, and Superman is being drawn by John Romita Jr, and Darkseid and the Anti-Monitor are showing down.

OK... I am *glad* I'm not keeping up, if that mess is all they have to offer...

[Batman]

Dark portrayals of the Joker have happened fairly regularly since the 1980s at the latest. If anything Nolan was following the comics, not the other way round. And I don't think you can blame him for the stupidity that is the New 52 because that seems to be happening across the board, not just in Batman comics.

*sigh* I miss the Modern Age.

[Bedlam]

[quote="Elheru Aran"]Now Batman has... a suit of power armour[quote]

I think that's Gordon, from what I've read in Batgirl since the last reboot, don't know why though and Gordon seems to have youthed by a decade or two although that is commented on in the comic itself.

[FedRebel]

Really loved the trailer.

The sequence with Bruce Wayne being the only one running towards the wall of smoke while everyone else was running away felt like the thing that Batman would do. The trailer also made Batman's motivation for fighting Superman more understandable: from his POV, Superman was at least partially responsible for a 9/11+ event. It is also very likely that Bruce knew at least a few of the "dozens killed" when Wayne Tower collapsed.

A wife maybe? (Vicky Vale or a genuinely rehabilitated Selina Kyle, being like Bruce's Pepper Potts running Wayne Enterprises)

'You let your family Die!' scribbled on a paper clipping

Batfleck is supposed to be retired at the start, only donning the cowl again after the Metropolis event.

He maybe got a wife...and the girl he's embracing in the rubble could be his daughter.

Really looking forward to the movie.

Me too, Luthor has me a tad concerned. Eisenberg to me is too young for the role and....

"The Red Capes are coming, The Red Capes are coming"

...it's supposed to sound ominously creepy, but out of Eisenberg's mouth it just sounds creepily cheezy.

[The Romulan Republic]

Really loved the trailer.

The sequence with Bruce Wayne being the only one running towards the wall of smoke while everyone else was running away felt like the thing that Batman would do. The trailer also made Batman's motivation for fighting Superman more understandable: from his POV, Superman was at least partially responsible for a 9/11+ event. It is also very likely that Bruce knew at least a few of the "dozens killed" when Wayne Tower collapsed.

A wife maybe? (Vicky Vale or a genuinely rehabilitated Selina Kyle, being like Bruce's Pepper Potts running Wayne Enterprises)

'You let your family Die!' scribbled on a paper clipping

Batfleck is supposed to be retired at the start, only donning the cowl again after the Metropolis event.

He maybe got a wife...and the girl he's embracing in the rubble could be his daughter.

When you put it that way, it sounds like a slightly alternate universe follow-up to Nolan/Bale's Batman, who retired with Selina Kyle at the end of his trilogy (albeit in hiding, not controlling Wayne Enterprises).

Edit: Perhaps not surprising considering that Nolan is a producer on this film and Goyer is a writer for both this and Nolan's Batman trilogy.

[Gandalf]

Why on Earth would they kill off Catwoman like that?

[The Romulan Republic]

That's a very good point.

Hell, she's probably the most popular and well-known female character DC has after Wonder Woman (well, I guess Batgirl/Oracle is up there as well).

If Wayne's wife did die, odds are its some minor character or original character.

As for the You let your family die thing, that could conceivably refer to Wayne's parents.

[Panzersharkcat]

As for the You let your family die thing, that could conceivably refer to Wayne's parents.

I had assumed that was Joker taunting him over Jason Todd.

[Lagmonster]

It could also refer to his employees, if you stretch the concept of family.

[Ziggy Stardust]

The sequence with Bruce Wayne being the only one running towards the wall of smoke while everyone else was running away felt like the thing that Batman would do.

Yeah, that was a beautifully shot scene.

Me too, Luthor has me a tad concerned. Eisenberg to me is too young for the role and....

"The Red Capes are coming, The Red Capes are coming"

...it's supposed to sound ominously creepy, but out of Eisenberg's mouth it just sounds creepily cheezy.

Yeah, I like Eisenberg in general, but I just don't think he's a good fit for the role. He didn't even feel very villainous in that trailer, he seemed more like just a sleezy low-level drug dealer. He was the only part of the trailer that I didn't like. Well, that and Wonder Woman; not because I don't like having female superheroes, but only because I think Wonder Woman in particularly is a revoltingly terrible and uninteresting character.

[The Romulan Republic]

Out of curiosity, why do you not like Wonder Woman? What would you prefer?

I don't know much about her beyond some animated appearances and stuff I read here.

[Elheru Aran]

The thing that bugs me about Eisenberg is that it'd be a lot easier to take him a little more seriously as Lex Luthor if we hadn't already seen the bald-head picture of him. The long stringy nerd-hair wig is just execrable. I can ignore him being squeaky as I don't hear the voices anyway, but the wig... No. If they're trying to play the whole 'genius inventor gone bald due to Superman' card, that's pretty Silver Age of them. And if it's 'oh he was bald all along' at the end of the movie, that's a little too Gene Hackman. So I don't particularly care for it.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Out of curiosity, why do you not like Wonder Woman? What would you prefer?

Not for any particularly logical reason (although the Wonder Woman comics are revoltingly sexist even for comic book standards). I just think she's a lame and uninteresting character. Granted, there aren't that many options for female superheroes that aren't just "girl version of male superhero" (Batgirl, Supergirl, etc.). I also just worry that this movie is going to be too cluttered and bloated trying to cram all of these characters together, without the luxury the Avengers had of previous movies fleshing them out.

I don't know much about her beyond some animated appearances and stuff I read here.

Neither do I, really. Most of my knowledge of comics comes from mentions on these forums and on Cracked articles. I have never been much of a comic book guy at all.

[The Romulan Republic]

Blatantly sexist comics would be reason enough to dislike the character.

Its a pity, because there is material there that could be turned into a good character.

[bilateralrope]

Do we have any idea why Wonder Woman is showing up in Batman vs Superman ?

Because her scenes in the trailer seem disconnected from the everything else that is going on.

[GuppyShark]

It is my impression that the modern WW is a well written not misogynist book - but that was pre 52

[Imperial Overlord]

It is my impression that the modern WW is a well written not misogynist book - but that was pre 52

The current status quo is that the Amazons rape and kill men to have kids and sell the male babies to slavers. I'm not joking. I have no fucking clue who thought this was a good idea.

WW is problematic for a number of reasons, one of them being that while her origins are feminist they are the feminism of the 1930s and dated and that she incorporates some of her creator's sexual kinks. I'm sure she can be done in a way that doesn't suck, but that's not what's happening now.

[The Romulan Republic]

It is my impression that the modern WW is a well written not misogynist book - but that was pre 52

The current status quo is that the Amazons rape and kill men to have kids and sell the male babies to slavers. I'm not joking. I have no fucking clue who thought this was a good idea.

That sounds less misogynist and more dark for the sake of dark (i.e. what seems to be the guiding principle of DC these days).

WW is problematic for a number of reasons, one of them being that while her origins are feminist they are the feminism of the 1930s and dated and that she incorporates some of her creator's sexual kinks. I'm sure she can be done in a way that doesn't suck, but that's not what's happening now.

Well, loads of other characters have been updated reasonably well (James Bond (though I give the credit for that mostly to Daniel Craig), Captain Kirk, Batman...) No reason she can't be.

[Iroscato]

So am I to understand that overall the New 52 is a big pile of shite? Cuz just about everything I've heard from it sounds abominable.

[Darmalus]

So am I to understand that overall the New 52 is a big pile of shite? Cuz just about everything I've heard from it sounds abominable.

I've been informed by my friends who do keep up with comics that New 52 is largely in the Star Wars Holiday Special territory. They sometimes show me the highlights, in the same manner one shares goatse, and I can't disagree.

[The Romulan Republic]

Its amazing how, despite having such legendary and fascinating characters as Batman, Superman, and the Joker, DC can fuck up so much.

[Mr Bean]

Its amazing how, despite having such legendary and fascinating characters as Batman, Superman, and the Joker, DC can fuck up so much.

There's no one driving the train at DC. Without a conductor the symphony is just random noise and confusion. Without DC having someone in charge to plan the entire universe everything falls apart.


It's been obvious since Iron Man started building the higher narrative on Marvel side. They have a plan and their success lets them execute that plan.

[Purple]

The current status quo is that the Amazons rape and kill men to have kids and sell the male babies to slavers. I'm not joking. I have no fucking clue who thought this was a good idea.

That sounds like the wet dream of modern radical feminism. So maybe the current writer(s) belong to that group?

[Elheru Aran]

Its amazing how, despite having such legendary and fascinating characters as Batman, Superman, and the Joker, DC can fuck up so much.

There's no one driving the train at DC. Without a conductor the symphony is just random noise and confusion. Without DC having someone in charge to plan the entire universe everything falls apart.


It's been obvious since Iron Man started building the higher narrative on Marvel side. They have a plan and their success lets them execute that plan.

Minor note: Geoff Johns was apparently trying to build something, but he was well past his peak with Green Lantern. Seems like he only wrote a few comics anyway (the first run of nu-52 JL, Aquaman, maybe one or two others) so he didn't have much of a chance.

[Iroscato]

Minor point in the trailer - I'm betting Luthor's next line after 'Do you know the oldest lie in America, Senator?' will be 'All men are created equal'. It would feed into his obsession/jealousy of Supes. Just calling it now