The OotS thread

[Gaidin]

EDIT (Forgot what I meant to say):
The time stop effect to keep them/V from being rushed is odd, you'd think rushing someone to sign over his soul before the barbeque of his family would be an excellent negotiation tactic...
It might be that they want him to make a fully informed decision with consent for more than just the minimum needed to save his family, but for "ultimate power beyond his wildest imaginings tm", making it not an act of selfless sacrifice (which he might conceivably squeeze his soul out of), but a selfish act.
Which would guarantee the damnation of his soul

That and...in the end...if a DnD PC wizard really wanted to renege on a deal like this, they could find a way, and kill the deal makers to boot. They probably want V to really like the deal. The risk is as much theirs as it is V's. That's my take anyway.

[The Grim Squeaker]

EDIT (Forgot what I meant to say):
The time stop effect to keep them/V from being rushed is odd, you'd think rushing someone to sign over his soul before the barbeque of his family would be an excellent negotiation tactic...
It might be that they want him to make a fully informed decision with consent for more than just the minimum needed to save his family, but for "ultimate power beyond his wildest imaginings tm", making it not an act of selfless sacrifice (which he might conceivably squeeze his soul out of), but a selfish act.
Which would guarantee the damnation of his soul

That and...in the end...if a DnD PC wizard really wanted to renege on a deal like this, they could find a way, and kill the deal makers to boot. They probably want V to really like the deal. The risk is as much theirs as it is V's. That's my take anyway.

True.

There's always that pesky "Soul selling for 9 wishes contract is void if last wish is a selfless one for someone else" clause.

[Solauren]

I'm viewing them going after V like this in several ways

#1 - They want to take their time, and make sure all three Fiendish 'factions' are properly represented, and know what they are expected to give V. At the foundation of a new joint business venture like this, that's not an uncommon practice. (No, I don't have a lot of experience dealing in souls, just enough ).

#2 - They want to make sure V understands exactly what is being offered, and what they expect of V.

#3 - V is probably a 'big score' and would really hit home with the rest of their respective factions / over-races (Devil, Demon, Daemon/Yugoloth) that this alliance can and will work

#4 - They need V to deal with Xykon + the Snarl (as an inside player)

#5 - They probably realise that, in the future, if V runs across Sabine, Nale and company, V will wipe the floor with them, and ruin their investment in Nale. Therefore, by carefully 'binding' V, they are safeguarding another investment.

#6 - non-Drow Elven souls are probably a rare commodity, and that increases V's value considerably. (see #3)

[Solauren]

That and...in the end...if a DnD PC wizard really wanted to renege on a deal like this, they could find a way, and kill the deal makers to boot. They probably want V to really like the deal. The risk is as much theirs as it is V's. That's my take anyway.

Depends on
a) - The DM.
b) - Fiendish party on the other end of the contract.
c) - The details of the contract.

For example, the contract in Mongoose Publishings 'Blood Magic' supplement, includes provisions about breaking the contract that results in the powers being pulled, followed by a permanent (and presumably high level) feeblemind and curses.

[Imperial Overlord]

Given the Triple Fiend Alliance, wiggling out of this one looks to be tough. As an aside, Iron Kingdoms has the best "make a deal with a devil" system I've ever seen in a D&D game. It's even possible to get out ahead. *kisses talisman of Scion Ekris*

[The Grim Squeaker]

Given the Triple Fiend Alliance, wiggling out of this one looks to be tough. As an aside, Iron Kingdoms has the best "make a deal with a devil" system I've ever seen in a D&D game. It's even possible to get out ahead. *kisses talisman of Scion Ekris*

Do tell?
Standard D&D is just a Wish spell, right?

[Imperial Overlord]

Standard D&D is just a Wish spell, right?

No. Basically standard D&D has devils doing stuff for you to accomplish your desires, which could include a Wish for a powerful fiend if that's the only way to do it and it's worth it for the devils to do it. Contracting with devils is a lawful and evil act (behold the glories of the D&D alignment system) which means that even if you wiggle out of your half, you're much more likely to end up in Hell.

In Iron Kingdoms there are no demons and devils. Instead there are immensely powerful beings that exist in the spirit world (Urcaen) known as Infernals. They don't have souls so although they live forever, if they die that's it for them. So they don't like to get personally involved in direct conflicts. They can, however, do all sorts of things with souls that fall into their clutches, the more powerful the souls the better. There big trick is to reforge these souls into nasty minion beasts. Since they aren't gods and thus get no souls from worshipers, they strike bargains with mortals in return for souls. Since its possible by a few means to ensure that a soul ends up in Infernal hands (a specific type of ritual murder is easiest) its possible to bargain back your own soul or bargain to supply x number of souls of quality y instead. Infernals are notoriously tough negotiators. Scion Ekris, who is the sort of the chief demigod/saint in the service of the goddess Tamar, is the patron of those who bargain with Infernals. He did so successfully when he was a mortal.

[Murazor]

633. Too good to be true? Probably.

[consequences]

Yeah, because we can believe that they're telling the truth on this.

[Imperial Overlord]

I'm sure that blending his soul with three massively evil mages will have no effect on V's personality.

[Vehrec]

This sounds like a VERY interesting ritual. I wonder if the OotS fanboys have already statted it out...

[Lord of the Abyss]

What occurred to me as the catch is, what happens to V's body while his soul spends time with the fiend in question ? Does the fiend control it ? For that matter, do the souls of the damned mages go away after the splice is over, or do they hang around, and take control once the fiend takes V's soul for the allotted time ?

And if the fiend waited until just the right time to take it's share of soul-time, that could have major consequences. Say, V's body suddenly being taken over by "Ganonron, Terror of a Thousand Planes" just as the Order gets to a Gate. Without anyone knowing about it. It's not likely that V's going to mention he's making deals with fiends after all.

[Solauren]

You know, this makes sense from a bad guy stand point.

"To be determined at a later point". Now they have a mole in the Order of the Stick that doesn't even realise it.

Also, the whole 'proof of concept' angle is fairly accurate. I know from a fact that governments do it all the time....

[Ender]

Agreeing to be in the service of a group of people who have demonstrated control over the ebb and flow of time under the promise that "it is only for a limited time" is beyond stupid.

"I only owed you one hour!"
"Yes, and thanks to time stop, for the past 8 million years you have experienced, 16 seconds have passed in the rest of the world. What is your point?"

[Molyneux]

Agreeing to be in the service of a group of people who have demonstrated control over the ebb and flow of time under the promise that "it is only for a limited time" is beyond stupid.

"I only owed you one hour!"
"Yes, and thanks to time stop, for the past 8 million years you have experienced, 16 seconds have passed in the rest of the world. What is your point?"

I would think that V could reasonably stipulate that the terms applied only to relative time. V does not get to cast Time Stop to extend the splice (not that it would help); the infernals don't get to do that either.

[Styphon]

Rather obvious potential loophole: what if the splice does end up lasting the rest of V's (extremely long elven) life? Then they have him for three (very long) lifetimes of torment.

[open_sketchbook]

Hell, they don't need to take advantage of a loophole to make it worth it. If V holds down the power for an hour, then they get 3 hours, whenever they want. Three hours from a powerful elven wizard, and you can pop in to, say, assassinate a king that V was honestly getting a quest from! On top of that, a taste of power might just incline V to continue their partnership...

[Solauren]

Scary thought;

They take over V in front of the snarl gate, and offer it (the snarl) a deal....

Or they could be using V to locate the gates so they can study them themselves, and possibly find a way to enslave it.

Man, the possiblities from this deal from the bad-guys side is, well, scary as all hell.

[Sriad]

Hell, they don't need to take advantage of a loophole to make it worth it. If V holds down the power for an hour, then they get 3 hours, whenever they want. Three hours from a powerful elven wizard, and you can pop in to, say, assassinate a king that V was honestly getting a quest from! On top of that, a taste of power might just incline V to continue their partnership...

To me, this seems more likely than "a million years of timestop"; these look like your classy "Dig Your Own Grave" type of evil guys more than the (kind of cliche) "Nya-ha-ha-ha, A LOOPHOLE!" sort.

[Mr Bean]

To me, this seems more likely than "a million years of timestop"; these look like your classy "Dig Your Own Grave" type of evil guys more than the (kind of cliche) "Nya-ha-ha-ha, A LOOPHOLE!" sort.

Question on the time-stop how exactly do they cheese that? Time-stop gives you two rounds max? Greater Time-Stop is from some Epic book I've never read and has never made it into the SRD. So... What ten rounds?

I'm wondering where this whole infinite time-stop is coming from?
Besides 1 hour is sixty turns, sixty turns is 3600 rounds
And evil monologuing is a free action. Even an hour under Demon/Devil/Other control is fing forever in game turns. Imagine if a Devil or Demon could step in and control your actions over three thousand times. Brief periods of time but if they get to watch V as (s)he goes about the normal routine and step in as required...

Now grasp the fact that there are two other evil outsiders who have an hour each....
Yeah... fucked

[Solauren]

Probably a custom epic level spell (these are high power fiends after all).
That could include a variant of the Genesis spell

[CaptainChewbacca]

They could be chain-casting epic timestops, that'd give them all they need.

[Ford Prefect]

They take over V in front of the snarl gate, and offer it (the snarl) a deal....

What could they possibly offer the Snarl? The Snarl isn't a person, it's a force of uncreation.

[Ender]

They take over V in front of the snarl gate, and offer it (the snarl) a deal....

It's worth noting that even the great forces of Evil want to keep the Snarl contained. Loki and the other dark gods help lock it up in the first place. TDO only wants it to blackmail the other gods into giving goblinoids a better shake, he isn't insane enough to release it. Xykon doesn't understand what it really is because Redcloak never told him, he is only willing to release it because he thinks it is some kind of ubermonster he can command to force the rulers to obeying him. So while the denizens of the dark planes may seek to gain control over a gate to block the forces of good from interfering with their plans, they aren't stupid enough to actually open the gate and let it out, much less try and offer it a deal.

[Solauren]

They take over V in front of the snarl gate, and offer it (the snarl) a deal....

It's worth noting that even the great forces of Evil want to keep the Snarl contained. Loki and the other dark gods help lock it up in the first place. TDO only wants it to blackmail the other gods into giving goblinoids a better shake, he isn't insane enough to release it. Xykon doesn't understand what it really is because Redcloak never told him, he is only willing to release it because he thinks it is some kind of ubermonster he can command to force the rulers to obeying him. So while the denizens of the dark planes may seek to gain control over a gate to block the forces of good from interfering with their plans, they aren't stupid enough to actually open the gate and let it out, much less try and offer it a deal.

Depends on if the Snarl is sentient or note. 'Deal' with fiends can have so many meanings.

i.e; Permanent enslavement or death, followed by painful torture and enslavement. Your choice....

Maybe the Fiends want is a a threat just like Redcloaks god does.