Batman v Superman - Now with spoilers and plot discussion!

[ray245]

What was hard to follow?

One obvious example I've seen mentioned: if you have a character ask "Where does Kent disappear to? Does he click his heels three times and show up back home in Kansas?" and then immediately cut to another scene, what do you think that second scene will be? If you said "Clark Kent, possibly in Kansas," you have a better grasp of Writing 101 than Snyder does. That's a classic set-up line - the sort of thing you use to try to smooth over the jarring change of topic - and even if you know nothing about screenwriting you can at least recognise it as such once it's been pointed out to you.

Synder didn't write this movie. The guy who wrote this movie has won an Oscar for writing a movie.

Seriously it's this shit right here that leads me to believe some people just want to hate on something for any reason possible. I'd bet dollars to donuts that if it were written the way you supposed, there would some other asshole complaining about how all the jokes were 'telegraphed' and 'obvious'.

He's the director. He was given control over the final cut/edit of the film and it really isn't a good job in my opinion. Even the best writers can't help the story if the director decides to cut out content differently from what it was in the script.

[The Romulan Republic]

I've never been impressed by Snyder as a director.

I mean, I try to be optimistic and open-minded about the DC films, but seriously... the MCU gets Joss Whedon and the DCCU gets fucking Snyder? That just isn't fair.

[Crown]

He's the director. He was given control over the final cut/edit of the film and it really isn't a good job in my opinion. Even the best writers can't help the story if the director decides to cut out content differently from what it was in the script.

You have no way of knowing what the writer's intent was in the example we're discussing. True?

I've never been impressed by Snyder as a director.

I mean, I try to be optimistic and open-minded about the DC films, but seriously... the MCU gets Joss Whedon and the DCCU gets fucking Snyder? That just isn't fair.

This is all subjective but this movie > Avengers. Like leaps and bounds beyond; I actually fucking cried during this movie. I gave a shit. I felt sorry for Clark

Snyder literally directs a live action comic book. He gives you the 'set pieces' and allows you to fill in some of the details with your own imagination. I get why some people really don't like this, and I don't blame them. However he delivers on the emotional level for Superman. In both MoS and BvS he's had me crying. I can't fault the guy for this, what ever it is he's doing it's working on me.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, to be honest, its partly that I just find a lot of Snyder's style visually grating. Too dark, gritty, yet somehow simultaneously almost gaudy for my taste. Its instantly recognizable, unpleasant, and he tends to stick with it from film to film. Its not my only complaint about his films, but its the biggest one that doesn't involve the writing.

I'll give him this, though- when he's not hideously abusing slow-motion like in 300, he can do a good fight scene. Man of Steel impressed me in that respect, and from what I'm reading here, this film does it well too.

[ray245]

He's the director. He was given control over the final cut/edit of the film and it really isn't a good job in my opinion. Even the best writers can't help the story if the director decides to cut out content differently from what it was in the script.

You have no way of knowing what the writer's intent was in the example we're discussing. True?

No matter what, the responsiblity will always fall upon the director, simply because he is the one calling the shot at the end of the day.

This is all subjective but this movie > Avengers. Like leaps and bounds beyond; I actually fucking cried during this movie. I gave a shit. I felt sorry for Clark

Snyder literally directs a live action comic book. He gives you the 'set pieces' and allows you to fill in some of the details with your own imagination. I get why some people really don't like this, and I don't blame them. However he delivers on the emotional level for Superman. In both MoS and BvS he's had me crying. I can't fault the guy for this, what ever it is he's doing it's working on me.

That doesn't make it fair for the general audience, who often don't have the background knowledge to fill things in. If younger kids find it hard to like Superman in this movie, then I think this movie failed in its role to reach out to a wider audience.

[The Romulan Republic]

You misattributed that quote to me.

[Crown]

No matter what, the responsiblity will always fall upon the director, simply because he is the one calling the shot at the end of the day.

So 'true', and you're just being a twat. I'll repeat myself; I'd bet dollars to donuts that if it were written the way you [Grumman] supposed, there would some other asshole complaining about how all the jokes were 'telegraphed' and 'obvious'.

The joke was objectively funny even without the very next scene being Martha and Clark at the farm. People laughed. It did not fail.

That doesn't make it fair for the general audience, who often don't have the background knowledge to fill things in. If younger kids find it hard to like Superman in this movie, then I think this movie failed in its role to reach out to a wider audience.

Why does anything have to be 'fair'? And this movie isn't for younger kids, however ironically they would be less phased by what I described because their imaginations would fill in the blanks better than adults.

Disney/Marvel are aiming for the 'bring everyone' demographic and from a monetary sense they've got the correct strategy. WB/DC are simply not doing that. You're now whining at Usain Bolt for failing to complete a marathon.

[ray245]

No matter what, the responsibility will always fall upon the director, simply because he is the one calling the shot at the end of the day.

So 'true', and you're just being a twat. I'll repeat myself; I'd bet dollars to donuts that if it were written the way you [Grumman] supposed, there would some other asshole complaining about how all the jokes were 'telegraphed' and 'obvious'.

The joke was objectively funny even without the very next scene being Martha and Clark at the farm. People laughed. It did not fail.

I was merely pointing out that you can't excuse the director from any problems with the movie and simply pin it down to the writer. As a director, they usually have near unlimited control over the script.

Why does anything have to be 'fair'? And this movie isn't for younger kids, however ironically they would be less phased by what I described because their imaginations would fill in the blanks better than adults.

Because you don't make a 250 million movie blockbuster to cater to a bunch of fans at the expense of everyone else. It's weird to be blaming the audience for not enjoying a movie as much as you did.

Disney/Marvel are aiming for the 'bring everyone' demographic and from a monetary sense they've got the correct strategy. WB/DC are simply not doing that. You're now whining at Usain Bolt for failing to complete a marathon.

WBs did an excellent job with the TDK movies, and they had a completely different tone from the Marvel movies. However, that did not stop younger kids from enjoying the movie and liking Batman as a character. TDK has shown us that you can make a dark and grim movie that appeals to a large audience.


This? It doesn't appeal to many people other than fans who blames the general audience for failing to enjoy the movie.

[Enigma]

Can someone give me some spoilers regarding the fight between the two? The scene which Supes unmasks a captured Batman? PM me if you don't want to post the spoilers here. Thanks. I'll still this movie regardless.... when it comes out on DVD.

[Crown]

So 'true', and you're just being a twat. I'll repeat myself; I'd bet dollars to donuts that if it were written the way you [Grumman] supposed, there would some other asshole complaining about how all the jokes were 'telegraphed' and 'obvious'.

The joke was objectively funny even without the very next scene being Martha and Clark at the farm. People laughed. It did not fail.

I was merely pointing out that you can't excuse the director from any problems with the movie and simply pin it down to the writer. As a director, they usually have near unlimited control over the script.

No you were being a nitpicky little asshole. Someone was blaming the writing and pinning it on Snyder. I pointed out that he wasn't the writer. You've added literally zero to this since then. Congrats.

Because you don't make a 250 million movie blockbuster to cater to a bunch of fans at the expense of everyone else. It's weird to be blaming the audience for not enjoying a movie as much as you did.

Provide one example of me blaming the audience.

WBs did an excellent job with the TDK movies, and they had a completely different tone from the Marvel movies. However, that did not stop younger kids from enjoying the movie and liking Batman as a character. TDK has shown us that you can make a dark and grim movie that appeals to a large audience.

They also made Green Lantern. And now WB is doing something different. Fox also made X-Men Origins and then Deadpool. Shockingly movie studios sometimes try different things.

This? It doesn't appeal to many people other than fans who blames the general audience for failing to enjoy the movie.

This? Just opened blowing Avengers out of the water. Whether it has legs I don't know, we'll see. But despite critics hating its guts, the audience rating is still high on RT. So who are these 'many people' then?

[ray245]

Whether it has legs I don't know, we'll see. But despite critics hating its guts, the audience rating is still high on RT. So who are these 'many people' then?

I am quite certain this movie will not have legs. MoS was far less divisive and critically panned than this and it's box office returns dropped massively. Audience rating is rapidly dropping as all well.

[Crown]

Can someone give me some spoilers regarding the fight between the two? The scene which Supes unmasks a captured Batman? PM me if you don't want to post the spoilers here. Thanks. I'll still this movie regardless.... when it comes out on DVD.

Spoiler

Dream sequence/Flash induced vision setting up Darkseid.

Are spoiler tags not working?

[Enigma]

Can someone give me some spoilers regarding the fight between the two? The scene which Supes unmasks a captured Batman? PM me if you don't want to post the spoilers here. Thanks. I'll still this movie regardless.... when it comes out on DVD.

Spoiler

Snip.

Are you serious?

[Crown]

Can someone give me some spoilers regarding the fight between the two? The scene which Supes unmasks a captured Batman? PM me if you don't want to post the spoilers here. Thanks. I'll still this movie regardless.... when it comes out on DVD.

Spoiler

Snip.

Are you serious?

Yep. Should I give you more context or you're okay, because there's more.

[Enigma]

Please more. As much as you can. Thanks.


Edit: I can see the spoilers if I reply to your post.

[Crown]

Just curious if I use spoiler tags without quoting first if they work;
Spoiler

This is a test

Spoilers work before quotes?

[Enigma]

Yup.

[Crown]

Break down of that whole scene;
Spoiler

First, Bruce is shown having nightmares throughout the movie. Nightmares of his parents death, and of him becoming a monster.

This nightmare takes hold of him while he's in the Batcave. He's waiting on decrypting some of Lex's files and he falls asleep when he has the desert dream. Here, he's trying to secure what looks like a Kryptonite bomb to use against Superman, but someone in his own crew betrays him and Superman's soldiers/devotees eventually overpower Batman (not without him shooting a lot of them first though). Eventually it is a Parademon that knocks him out.



When he comes to his senses, he's chained up along with 2 of his crew and Superman arrives. Superman immediately torches the other prisoners with his heat vision, but walks up to Batman and rips off his cowl. He angrily tells Batman that "She was my world, and you took her from me!*" Then Superman reaches out and rips Batman's heart out of his chest.

Cut to the Batcave and Bruce wakes up half frightened, and then there is a huge flash and well The Flash makes a cameo (Bruce has no idea who he is at this point, they haven't met). The Flash pleads/warns/begs Bruce to save Lois, that she is the key. He has to save her and then as he starts disappearing again the Flash says that he (Bruce) was right not to trust "him".

Then Bruce wakes up for real. And Lex's files are nearly decrypted.


*I'm paraphrasing that line a little. I can't remember if he said you took her from me or you let her die.

Please more. As much as you can. Thanks.
Edit: I can see the spoilers if I reply to your post.

[Enigma]

What about the fight itself?

[Crown]

This spoiler is related to what I posted above, not your question below;
Spoiler

A guy in the comments has got what Flash said to Bruce down pretty well; "Bruce, Bruce ! Listen to me right now ! Lois ! Lois Lane, she is the key, am i too soon ? I'm too soon ! You were right about him, you always have been right about him ! Fear him ! Find us Bruce ! You have to find us !"

What about the fight itself?

The actual throw down between Batman and Superman when Batman is wearing his armour?

[Enigma]

Yup.

[Crown]

The Batman v Superman fight is as follows;
Spoiler

Lex has been manipulating Bruce into wanting to fight Superman at the same time he's been subtly breaking down Superman's public image. He finally has Batman ready so he gets Superman's attention by throwing Lois off Lex tower. Superman rescues her, and tells Lex that he will take him in without breaking him - Superman is a bit angry at this point. Lex though tells Superman that if he ever wants to see Martha Kent alive again, then Superman will bring him the head of Batman. Superman will either have to kill Batman thus proving Lex's point about how dangerous Superman is, or he will die to Batman. Superman barely restrains from barbecuing Lex at this point (and as a little aside from me; I love how Snyder has given us a Superman with known 'red line's and 'triggers', Lois and his mum are the two things which will drive him to break his code).

Superman gets Lois to safety and tells her he has one chance, to either beg Batman for help. Or kill him, and says that not everyone can be good forever.

Batman has prepared ahead. He's weaponised Kryptonite into gas form and has a super concentrated refined Kryptonite spear. When Superman arrives he tries to apologies to Batman and admits that he's been wrong. But at this point Batman is just throwing everything at Superman (he's booby trapped the whole area). Superman loses his patience and starts bitch slapping Batman around to prove his point; "Stay down! If I wanted it; you'd be dead already!"

But Batman pulls the Kryptonite gas attack off, but getting Superman to actually catch the gas canister;



The Kryptonite gas explodes in Superman's face and he starts choking on it. Batman starts mocking him, taunts him about how he's feeling fear and panic. How Superman has never been brave, and that only men can be brave.

He starts whaling on Superman and his armoured suit does damage, and yes makes Superman bleed. When the Kryptonite gas begins to wear off Superman starts getting the upper hand again (and you see Batman practically shit himself). But he uses another Kryptonite gas canister, and drops Superman down to the spear which is refined concentrated Kryptonite meaning that proximity alone weakens Superman.

Triumphantly Batman stands over Superman with is boot across Superman's neck holding the spear. He begins to cut Superman across the cheek and rears back to drive the spear through Superman when he's stopped by the name Martha. Superman pleads for Batman to save 'Martha' (meaning Martha Kent), Batman demands to know where he 'learned that name' (thinking Martha Wayne).

Lois has finally managed to arrive at this point and shields Superman from the spear with her body. Telling Batman that Superman needs help to save his mother (Martha Kent) and that they need to move quickly because it looks like something bad is about to be unleashed (Doomsday).

Yup.

[Grumman]

Someone was blaming the writing and pinning it on Snyder. I pointed out that he wasn't the writer.

I have not found the scripts for the movie yet, so I cannot say whether the problem started in Goyer's original script, in Terrio's rewritten script, or in editing out or rearranging scenes after filming. But regardless of where it started, it would have ended with Snyder if he'd recognised it as a problem. My reference to Writing 101 did not mean it is something only a writer needs to know.

[Enigma]

Thanks for the spoilers. I still am going to watch the movie. Thanks all.

[Terralthra]