Heroes Chapter 22 "Landslide"

[Ted C]

D.L. was clearly dead by that time.

D.L. shouldn't be dead yet, since Sylar managed to steal his power in the future. He's hurt bad, but I think he may pull through.

"I don't want to go on the cart."

[JediToren]

what power that Hiro's father has

Who says Kaito has a power at all? He says he had allies with powers, not that he had a power himself.

(Though, clearly, Micah wasn't required, based on "Five Years Gone.")

Unless Linderman's plan included Nathan's death and Sylar taking his place, I think its fairly obvious that Linderman's plan fell apart, although from the painting and Linderman's comment about Nikki/Jessica and DL never seeing Micah again, I think it's fair to say that Micah wasn't part of the plan after November 8th.

Linderman probably wanted him dead because DL wanted to kill him.

From the preview, it would appear that Peter will explode to try and kill Sylar.

And Thompson's death was awesome. That bastard had it coming.

[Vendetta]

Anyone have any theories who is going to be shot between Molly, Mr. Bennet, and Mohinder?

They all survived to "Five Years Gone." (Molly was at least thought to be alive.) The course of events to that future can only be changed by Hiro or Ando, and neither has had any contact with them since returning. If any are shot, then they are still on track to survive, at least. (For now...)

I don't think "Five years gone" is a reliable guide to the future of the current continuity.

It's the future that happened if Peter didn't meet Claire in Texas.

What, you think "Save the Cheerleader, Save the World" was a red herring?

[Ted C]

I don't think "Five years gone" is a reliable guide to the future of the current continuity.

It's the future that happened if Peter didn't meet Claire in Texas.

What, you think "Save the Cheerleader, Save the World" was a red herring?

Except that Peter had saved Claire in "Five Years Gone", but that alone didn't prevent the explosion. Hiro also has to stab Sylar while he can't regenerate.

[Cincinnatus]

Anyone have any theories who is going to be shot between Molly, Mr. Bennet, and Mohinder?

They all survived to "Five Years Gone." (Molly was at least thought to be alive.) The course of events to that future can only be changed by Hiro or Ando, and neither has had any contact with them since returning. If any are shot, then they are still on track to survive, at least. (For now...)

I don't think "Five years gone" is a reliable guide to the future of the current continuity.

It's the future that happened if Peter didn't meet Claire in Texas.

What, you think "Save the Cheerleader, Save the World" was a red herring?

No, Peter did meet Claire in "Five years gone." Future Hiro was just returning from giving his message to Peter when he ran into Hiro and Ando in the studio. That's why Claire was still alive.

[Mad]

I don't think "Five years gone" is a reliable guide to the future of the current continuity.

It's the future that happened if Peter didn't meet Claire in Texas.

What, you think "Save the Cheerleader, Save the World" was a red herring?

No, "Five Years Gone" is what happens if Claire is saved (Sylar, disguised as Nathan, still needed Claire's power), but Hiro still fails to do what is necessary to stop the explosion.

Basically, anyone Hiro hasn't been able to affect since returning from 5 years into the future will continue on the path leading to "Five Years Gone." Hiro's presence is the wildcard, and he's only been able to affect Nathan and Sylar since returning.

The respective paths of D.L., Molly, Mohinder, and Candice (among others) shouldn't change until Hiro does something that can affect them (directly or indirectly). As such, it should be safe to assume that the events shown in "Landslide" regarding those characters are exactly what happened to them in "Five Years Gone" at that point in time.

[Vendetta]

Except that Peter had saved Claire in "Five Years Gone", but that alone didn't prevent the explosion. Hiro also has to stab Sylar while he can't regenerate.

Then how does Future Peter have a big mother scar across his face? If he had met Claire, he could have healed it.

Also, Niki is now in New York, with Micah, whereas the fact that she is alive and he is not in the Five Years Gone timeline suggests that she was not with him when the bomb went off.

Future Hiro was just returning from giving his message to Peter when he ran into Hiro and Ando in the studio. That's why Claire was still alive.

No, I don't think so. Hence, again, Peter's scar, he does not have the healing ability that he should have if he had met Claire. I suggest that in 5YG Claire was saved by someone else, probably Mr. Bennet, and was then kept safe and hidden all along. Peter had not met her, and that put him on the path to being the bomb.

[Cincinnatus]

Except that Peter had saved Claire in "Five Years Gone", but that alone didn't prevent the explosion. Hiro also has to stab Sylar while he can't regenerate.

Then how does Future Peter have a big mother scar across his face? If he had met Claire, he could have healed it.

Also, Niki is now in New York, with Micah, whereas the fact that she is alive and he is not in the Five Years Gone timeline suggests that she was not with him when the bomb went off.

Future Hiro was just returning from giving his message to Peter when he ran into Hiro and Ando in the studio. That's why Claire was still alive.

No, I don't think so. Hence, again, Peter's scar, he does not have the healing ability that he should have if he had met Claire. I suggest that in 5YG Claire was saved by someone else, probably Mr. Bennet, and was then kept safe and hidden all along. Peter had not met her, and that put him on the path to being the bomb.

No, because Future Hiro remembers Sylar having healing powers before he went back in time to warn Peter. When he returns from that trip, Claire is alive again and Sylar doesn't have healing powers.

As for the scar, Peter might be consciously choosing to not heal it out of guilt.

[Mad]

Then how does Future Peter have a big mother scar across his face? If he had met Claire, he could have healed it.

From an interview on CBR ("Behind The Eclipse," week 21): Future Peter has healing, and he still has the scar:

"If Peter absorbed Claire's powers, and he can heal, why does he have a scar on his face?"

We answered that question last week. We can tell you two things. First, it is not a mistake, Peter can regenerate, but he still has the scar. Secondly, we'll show you how later on in the series. We promise.

Also, Niki is now in New York, with Micah, whereas the fact that she is alive and he is not in the Five Years Gone timeline suggests that she was not with him when the bomb went off.

We don't know that for certain. It's entirely possible for them to be together and one die while the other survives.

No, I don't think so. Hence, again, Peter's scar, he does not have the healing ability that he should have if he had met Claire. I suggest that in 5YG Claire was saved by someone else, probably Mr. Bennet, and was then kept safe and hidden all along. Peter had not met her, and that put him on the path to being the bomb.

No, Claire was dead before Future Hiro returned from the past, as shown in the Heroes online comic "String Theory." The first time through, Claire died. The second time through, Peter saved her.

[Stark]

Yeah it seems that the future is changing in realtime: when Future Hiro returned to his own time, he didn't know whether or not Claire had been saved. He was even disappointed there was still an explosion, and doesn't know that it is no longer Sylar (since Peter's involvement in the current events has been covered up). I think it's awesome that Future Hiro was from a future that now won't exist, trying to solve the old problems without realising the knock-on effects of the changes he's already made.

[ArmorPierce]

I somehow managed to miss it. Is it just me or is the episode not working at nbc's website?

[avatarxprime]

Also, Niki is now in New York, with Micah, whereas the fact that she is alive and he is not in the Five Years Gone timeline suggests that she was not with him when the bomb went off.

We don't know that for certain. It's entirely possible for them to be together and one die while the other survives.

I've been thinking about that, my current theory is that Jessica dies, thus saving Niki. From Walls part II (online comic) we know that Niki is functioning by herself, we know from "Five Years Gone" that Jessica is gone, we know based on the early Heroes episodes that the two can have different experiences. When Jessica rips those mobsters apart Niki's clothes are nice and clean while Jessica is covered in blood. So I'm guessing what happened was Jessica took over and was killed (along with Micah), then with Jessica dead Niki naturally took full control of the body there after.

I also have an even crazier idea floating through my head that the Sylar we're watching right now is Future Sylar. He beat Peter, took Future Hiro's time travel power and is now working to ensure that his future takes place since he knows that current Hiro has seen the future and might just be able to change it.

[Praxis]

I also have an even crazier idea floating through my head that the Sylar we're watching right now is Future Sylar. He beat Peter, took Future Hiro's time travel power and is now working to ensure that his future takes place since he knows that current Hiro has seen the future and might just be able to change it.

While that actually makes a measure of sense, his actions seem very much based on those paintings, and he thinks he's the bomb, while Future Sylar knew it was Peter.

Plus, I really doubt Sylar could take Peter if Peter knew how to fully use his power. I mean, he could copy every power Sylar uses on him plus he has a host of other powers that Sylar has no idea about (ability to control fire, invisibility, etc).

He should theoretically be able to turn invisible and torch Sylar while TK'ing him.

[Ted C]

Plus, I really doubt Sylar could take Peter if Peter knew how to fully use his power. I mean, he could copy every power Sylar uses on him plus he has a host of other powers that Sylar has no idea about (ability to control fire, invisibility, etc).

He should theoretically be able to turn invisible and torch Sylar while TK'ing him.

I agree that Peter should always have more powers than Sylar (since he presumably absorbs all of Sylar's powers every time they meet, in addition to those he already has).

Current Peter, however, does not have the ability to create fire. He will apparently gain it within the next five years, but he doesn't have it yet.

[Praxis]

Plus, I really doubt Sylar could take Peter if Peter knew how to fully use his power. I mean, he could copy every power Sylar uses on him plus he has a host of other powers that Sylar has no idea about (ability to control fire, invisibility, etc).

He should theoretically be able to turn invisible and torch Sylar while TK'ing him.

I agree that Peter should always have more powers than Sylar (since he presumably absorbs all of Sylar's powers every time they meet, in addition to those he already has).

Current Peter, however, does not have the ability to create fire. He will apparently gain it within the next five years, but he doesn't have it yet.

The post I was responding to voiced the theory that Future Sylar defeated Future Peter in the fight and then took Future Hiro's power and followed Hiro back to the past.

So I'm talking about Future Peter's level of power. I really doubt Sylar could beat him without some sort of sucker punch.

[avatarxprime]

Plus, I really doubt Sylar could take Peter if Peter knew how to fully use his power. I mean, he could copy every power Sylar uses on him plus he has a host of other powers that Sylar has no idea about (ability to control fire, invisibility, etc).

He should theoretically be able to turn invisible and torch Sylar while TK'ing him.

I agree that Peter should always have more powers than Sylar (since he presumably absorbs all of Sylar's powers every time they meet, in addition to those he already has).

Current Peter, however, does not have the ability to create fire. He will apparently gain it within the next five years, but he doesn't have it yet.

The post I was responding to voiced the theory that Future Sylar defeated Future Peter in the fight and then took Future Hiro's power and followed Hiro back to the past.

So I'm talking about Future Peter's level of power. I really doubt Sylar could beat him without some sort of sucker punch.

Well keep in mind a few things. Peter is empathetic, he naturally just copies the powers of those around, but he needs to know those powers exist to utilize them. What's more is that he also needs to learn how those powers work, just as if he was born with them. Sylar on the other hand is analytical, he opens up your head and studies your power. Once he copies it he becomes fully proficient, albeit there is still an adjustment period, however short, as evidenced when he killed the girl with super hearing. That's Sylar's one true advantage over Peter. Also, it's worth pointing out that the first time Peter tried to call on multiple powers he nearly overloaded and had to be knocked out by Claude to keep from exploding. Maybe trying to copy all of Future Sylar's powers and use them would be too much for even Future Peter and threaten to overload him again.

Current Peter has all of Sylar's powers, but he doesn't know about them so he can't really call them up and use them. Also, in the "Five Years Gone" story, Sylar indicates that he has become powerful enough that he doesn't need to take on anyone elses abilities anymore. Who knows what bag of tricks Future Sylar has?

[Walsh]

Well keep in mind a few things. Peter is empathetic, he naturally just copies the powers of those around, but he needs to know those powers exist to utilize them.

He didn't know that Claire could heal, but he still used her power when she ran up to his mangled corpse.

It looks like Claude has been de-brained in this episode, as evidenced by Sylar's disappearance when talking to that cop. Also, this reminds me of something from an earlier episode, just before Sylar stole Dale's super-sensitive hearing, Dale turned around, saw Sylar, and said "I didn't hear any footsteps", to which he replied "there weren't any". Does this lend credence to Past Sylar actually being Future Sylar (who has Nathan's flying ability, and thus could avoid making footsteps)? It doesn't explain why he didn't change his appearance, though.

[Stark]

Sylar can both walk away when someone isn't looking and hover using TK.

[Stark]

Also, in the "Five Years Gone" story, Sylar indicates that he has become powerful enough that he doesn't need to take on anyone elses abilities anymore. Who knows what bag of tricks Future Sylar has?

This doesn't really mean anything. Sylar is a lunatic motivated by a desire to be special - now he's 'the leader of the free world' the 'most special person there is'. Why would he want more powers? He wasn't out to become the full-set superman guy, just to take 'specialness' from people who 'didn't deserve it'. Now he feels special enough (being President and all does that), and just wants to 'eliminate the competition'.

TK, flying and illusion have clearly allowed him to do whatever he wants.

[Walsh]

Sylar can both walk away when someone isn't looking and hover using TK.

Fair enough with the TK hovering, but he certainly didn't just walk away from that cop. Check the scene again, its at about 18:20. Besides, with his hearing, it wouldn't be too hard for Sylar to de-brain an invisible guy, should they cross paths. Claude wasn't exactly Mr. Stealthy when he was moving around the streets, and Sylar would know what was up.

[Stark]

What? What do you mean? She looks away for several seconds, and there's a huge crowd there. You think he has to have turned invisible for the agent to not see him without even fucking moving?

[Mad]

Well keep in mind a few things. Peter is empathetic, he naturally just copies the powers of those around, but he needs to know those powers exist to utilize them. What's more is that he also needs to learn how those powers work, just as if he was born with them.

Unless he's in range of another person with powers, in which case those powers can sometimes spontaneously manifest. (Claire, Ted, Claude.)

Once Peter sees Sylar use a power, though, he knows he can use the same power. Peter might have more difficulty that power than Sylar, of course.

Sylar on the other hand is analytical, he opens up your head and studies your power. Once he copies it he becomes fully proficient, albeit there is still an adjustment period, however short, as evidenced when he killed the girl with super hearing. That's Sylar's one true advantage over Peter.

That's true, Sylar seems to gain proficiency very quickly due to knowing how the powers work. He still has to get used to the power, but he already knows the general capabilities and limits.

Also, it's worth pointing out that the first time Peter tried to call on multiple powers he nearly overloaded and had to be knocked out by Claude to keep from exploding. Maybe trying to copy all of Future Sylar's powers and use them would be too much for even Future Peter and threaten to overload him again.

I don't think Peter was in danger of exploding. He was calling up a bunch of powers, and maybe precog or something else freaked him out. Neither he nor Claude knew of Ted then, though, so they tried to attribute the cause to something they already knew.

Current Peter has all of Sylar's powers, but he doesn't know about them so he can't really call them up and use them. Also, in the "Five Years Gone" story, Sylar indicates that he has become powerful enough that he doesn't need to take on anyone elses abilities anymore. Who knows what bag of tricks Future Sylar has?

Again, though, once Sylar uses the power Peter can copy it. And he does pretty well with copying powers when in the vicinity of their owner. Future Peter copied speed and lightning abilities in the heat of battle when attacked by people using those powers for the first time in one of the online comics.

[Stark]

It's worth noting some powers don't need to be 'used' - like Parkman and Claire's. They just work by themselves, and Parkman's telepathy requires effort to control, or Ted's that react to his mood.

Future Peter has a much greater amount of 'control' with his copying, so it's not really comparable: present Peter still seems to be poor at rapidly selecting and drawing out powers (he used telepathy right after having met Parkman, but not at other times when it'd be useful, and didn't stop time when Ted got busted by the Feds, etc).

[Praxis]

Sylar disappeared for dramatic effect.

Harry Osborn did it in Spider-Man 3 too. Or maybe he just ducked under the table.

[McC]

You guys are all taking future Hiro at his word that he stabbed Sylar, but it wasn't enough.

I'm kind of inclined to think he stabbed Peter without realizing it, but since Peter could regenerate, it didn't stop the bomb and Hiro bamfed out before he realized who he had actually stabbed. That was the first impression I got from watching "Five Years Gone."