Superman and Lois - Anyone Else Watching?

[Broomstick]

Well, for me it airs on Wednesday because the TV broadcast is incompatible with my work schedule, so I wind up watching it on streaming. But close enough.

I'm going to assume anyone reading this thread is also keeping up (more or less) with the show and won't bother to spoiler anything going forward.

One of the best scenes this week was Supes getting shoot with kryptonite "laced" bullets, getting knocked down, standing back up although in obvious pain and being pissed. Glowing eyes, ANGRY SUPERMAN, advancing on the soldier who just shot him. The emotion on the soldiers faces was a good mix of "oh fuck we are so fucked" and a stiff-upper-lip facing of danger. In many ways the portrayal of the military in this series is a step up from the usual 2D cardboard version of comics and comic-derived movies. General Lane, for example, is definitely a military guy inclined to solve problems with aggression BUT he's also reasonable, sane, logical, doesn't seek to start a fight, and even some of his more questionable actions, such as stockpiling kryptonite, are actually sensible on a certain level (I believe him when he states that one motive is to protect his daughter's husband and her family from harm). Making kryptonite bullets falls within his stated motive of protecting the people of Earth - in the event Superman ever goes rogue I expect Lane to have not only weaponry but a plan of action as well.

That scene also demonstrates that, first of all, Superman does feel anger and secondly, he does have to exert control over his impulses. Jordan, being a teenager, may not believe that dad understands what he's going through but dad actually does, because if anything dad has to exert greater control over greater powers.

Another scene that actually is very subtle - so much so that I had to go back and watch it a second time to confirm what was going on - is that Jonathan is getting powers. And at what point do we see this? OK, I will spoiler this because I want folks reading to actually try to think about this, or pick out where it happens. Remember, the boys manifest their powers during times of heightened emotion/danger/fear.
Spoiler

When Jordan takes a swing at one of the Metropolis football team taunting them and Jonathan blocks the punch, getting a broken wrist for his trouble. Jonathan's interception occurs at superspeed. It's a quick scene (ha!), and they don't make it tremendously obvious, but re-watach and it's there. Jonathan is the fast twin, which makes me wonder if that ties in with him being such a good quarterback - he's got a speed edge the way Jordan has a strength edge.

Of course, given the drama of the moment no one involved in that scene realizes what Jonathan just did that was beyond normal Human abilities.

[Batman]

Gods Clark's 'getting angry' scene was awesome. And I'm in no position to chide anybody for stockpiling kryptonite, I keep the stuff in my utility belt at all times remember? With someone of Clark's power around you need a way to neutralize them if the need arises, preferably without having to blow up half the continent in the process.
Not sure I agree with your take on Papa Lane. Sure he 'is' a lot more rational than your usual cardboard cutout military guy but his 'it's a potential threat, so we kill it' approach to the Edge metas does seem to indicate they're going to send him that way.
And how do you figure Johnathan's intercept was at superspeed? Jordan doesn't have it (so far) so that that would have been perfectly possible with normal human speed (Jonathan would need superstrength to do it because he didn't just deflect the blow, he blocked it cold but I don't see where superspeed was required)

[Broomstick]

Gods Clark's 'getting angry' scene was awesome. And I'm in no position to chide anybody for stockpiling kryptonite, I keep the stuff in my utility belt at all times remember? With someone of Clark's power around you need a way to neutralize them if the need arises, preferably without having to blow up half the continent in the process.

True. And Clark is smart enough to understand that, although I think he is also a little weirded out by it.

Not sure I agree with your take on Papa Lane. Sure he 'is' a lot more rational than your usual cardboard cutout military guy but his 'it's a potential threat, so we kill it' approach to the Edge metas does seem to indicate they're going to send him that way.

Clark is a physical god who is superhumanly moral and self-controlled yet, as Lane states, the military is "terrified" of him, probably because it is only Clark's own good will that keeps him on the side of the angels. Lane trusts him because, first of all, he's worked with Superman for a long time and also the guy is part of his family now. That said, if Clark ever does go rogue Lane would take him on because that's the job he has.

The Edge metas are largely unknown quantities. They're super-powered, but no one knows what their moral stance and self-control might be. Some of them might be unable to control themselves. Tag is having trouble in that area and is dangerous not from malice but simple clumsiness because has little to no control. The fact that one of the people in Tag's path was also one of Lane's grandsons makes him a potential threat to Lane's family. I'm not sure how much Lane and the military are aware of the metas made directly by Edge, but they have destroyed and killed - including targeting Lane's daughter which is NOT going to moderate Lane's viewpoint when/if he finds out. From Lane's perspective you have metas with a power level approaching Supes that don't have brakes. That's a threat. Humans don't have a big tool kit for dealing with that threat. Clark can afford to be more empathic towards them because Clark isn't as likely to be hurt, they aren't they same threat to him as they are to Lane.

I am curious at the DOD facility where Tag was sent - what is that actually like? How was Tag treated? Who else is there?

And how do you figure Johnathan's intercept was at superspeed? Jordan doesn't have it (so far) so that that would have been perfectly possible with normal human speed (Jonathan would need superstrength to do it because he didn't just deflect the blow, he blocked it cold but I don't see where superspeed was required)

Rewatch the scene.

As Jordan throws the punch the action slows down. Jonathan's hand then moves to block him very fast. Here is a link to a clip. Jordan is throwing a serious punch there, if the video was moving at normal speed his arm would be fast enough to be a blur but it's not, it's in a mild slo-mo. Jonathan's hand is the one moving fast enough to blur when it comes in to block Jordan. It's not that it's required, it's that it happened. And you're right, I think Jonathan also needed super-strength and durability, even if he's not as strong or durable as Jordan.

The thing is, powers in both brothers are not coming in full strength with a discrete incident or trigger, they're coming in gradually, like beard growth or acne - no one really sees that first whisker or zit, it just seems like one morning you wake up needing to shave and/or covered in spots. Jordan is maturing into his powers first, but I think they're going to become apparent in Jonathan shortly. Right now, Jonathan's are "manifesting" like when Jordan's first did - subtly enough that they're being missed. At least, that's my theory.

The trailer for the next episode indicates some sort of mortal threat to Superman and the boys attempting to ride to the rescue. It's a situation where Jonathan's powers might come out more as there's all sorts of emotion and adrenaline involved, so we'll see.

[Batman]

So Lex Luthor isn't actually Lex Luthor but John Henry Irons, red sun radiation (presuming that's what those red 'solar flares' were supposed to be) not only renders Clark powerless/reduces him to running on batteries but actually hurts him (why else did he collapse the moment the lights came on?), in Iron's reality Nat was his daughter, not his niece and the mother was his Lois Lane, and not only did his Clark turn on humanity, but he did so with the support of score of OTHER Kryptonians. Let's see where this goes

[Broomstick]

I thought it was an excellent plot twist - I'm watching and to some degree going "ho-hum, OK, another iteration of Lex Luthor and wait what? That's NOT Lex Luthor?". If I am recalling correctly, no one actually calls him "Luthor" other than the suit's AI. In the flashbacks no one actually addresses him by name. He never refers to himself by anything other than the alias he gave Lois.

If the red "solar flare" lights depower Clark then when they came on they shut down his superspeed, bringing him to an abrupt halt (or nearly so) which may have been a bit like hitting a wall. I don't think it completely de-powers him (I don't see how he would have survived some of those hammer blows if he were completely de-powered), but does weaken him a great deal.

There was a brief glimpse of some sort of crystalline rock before Irons sets up the lights, so I'm wondering if some sort of kryptonite variant is involved with them or not. They certainly aren't just red lights.

I'm wondering about Irons' Kal-El... did that iteration even have a Clark Kent identity or has he always been just the Kryptonian Kal-El? Was he raised by loving parents in Kansas or captured and treated like a lab animal? Is part of what keeps Superman the good guy and relatable his relationships with human beings?

As for the "army" of Supermen in that other world - were they all made by x-kryptonite? Was there a Morgan Edge in that world behind it? Or did a group of Kryptonians make to Earth in that world and keep to themselves, never developing any ties or empathy to humanity? Not sure how much we're going to learn about that other world.

For darn sure Sam Lane is going to want to pump Irons for information on weapons that can take on Kryptonians.

That bit where Clark comes in and starts talking about the rules the boys broke during the rescue I thought was going to be yet another dad lecture about how they needed to follow the rules, but he wound up acknowledging they broke the rules for the right reasons.

[Batman]

Yeah Clark, 'trust goes both ways'. We trust you not to hurt us, you trust us not to hurt you. Problem is for you a gazillion ways to hurt 'us' are built into your biology while 'without' kryptonite there's jack out we can do to stop 'you' should you choose to do so. Also kindly notice Papa Lane 'did' inform you beforehand of the dangers that lurked down there beforehand, guided you when you were down there and couldn't see scratch because of the lead lining, and eventually showed up to save your bacon. Broomstick was right earlier-the guy is a lot less of a hardliner than I gave him credit for.
Apparently this iteration of Clark 'can't' just indefinitely hold his breath (or never breathe to begin with) the way some comics interpretations can as a gas he had to breathe worked (and a gas mask/rebreather/whatever worked to protect the Edge meta so it wasn't skin contact). A gas that was meant to weaken Clark so 'more traditional methods would work' which does not necessarily mean lethal force. So even with the kryptonite that doesn't mean they were looking for ways to kill him.
Mildly surprised Irons didn't build any anti-kryptonian weapons into his winnebago's internal defenses. Limited resources for those maybe? He had enough to set that trap for Clark last episode but we know very little about his this world resources (hell we know little about his home world resources) at either point in time.
Papa Lane is not going to be happy with Clark's decision to let Irons go on his merry way

[Broomstick]

General Lane has actually been refreshingly honest the entire series. I think we can definitely take him at his word on a lot of things. The only "lying" he has done has been to not volunteer information, which is normal and proper military conduct. It's not malicious, it's part of the protect and defend method.

Lane really does regard Clark as a force for good, even if he gets exasperated with him at times. That's why they work together so often. When Lane says he stockpiled Kryptonite to protect Clark I think he means it - he doesn't want Superman taken out of the picture because Superman does so much good. On the other hand, it would be stupid for the military to NOT consider what would happen if Superman went rogue - for Og's sake, in our world the government has plans for alien invasions, role-plays the zombie apocalypse, and probably has a plan for what to do if the Girl Scouts go insane and try to take over the country. Consider hypothetical problems is part of what the Department of Defense does (whether or not it is done well is another question, but let's not go there...)

I wish they had made it more explicit, but Clark is a smart guy and I think he understands Lane's stance on this, which is why he doesn't push back. Clark is well aware of how overpowered he is compared to humans. If he wasn't before he certainly is now considering the effects of going rogue would be. It's hard to argue with the logic of Lane developing weapons to take on Kryptonians.

Apparently this iteration of Clark 'can't' just indefinitely hold his breath (or never breathe to begin with) the way some comics interpretations can as a gas he had to breathe worked (and a gas mask/rebreather/whatever worked to protect the Edge meta so it wasn't skin contact).

Re-watching that scene, the first blast of green gas catches Superman unaware, which is plausible give Rosetti's superspeed. Clark probably got a lungful, or part of one, before he realized what was going on and started to hold his breath (Clark says very little throughout the fight, so he might in fact be trying to hold his breath). The first inhalation impacted him, which might have made it harder to not breathe. Rosetti, once the mask it torn off, does a lot of gasping. If Clark is able to hold his breath, even part of the time, and Rosetti doesn't (or can't, because he's base human with meta powers, not base Kyrptonian) that goes a long way to explaining why Clark does as well as he does despite being affected by "synthetic Kryptonite". Too bad for Rosetti he just assumed Irons had run off. Irons is a baseline human with no powers who not only took on Kryptonians, but also won on multiple occasions. He's a badass.

A gas that was meant to weaken Clark so 'more traditional methods would work' which does not necessarily mean lethal force. So even with the kryptonite that doesn't mean they were looking for ways to kill him.

Right - which shows again that Lane is not a bad guy. He really is looking for ways to deal with a threat, and not just "kill it!" but multiple methods. Look for some of these to be deployed against Edge's army. That's going to be a fight where Superman might very much need armed allies.

Mildly surprised Irons didn't build any anti-kryptonian weapons into his winnebago's internal defenses. Limited resources for those maybe? He had enough to set that trap for Clark last episode but we know very little about his this world resources (hell we know little about his home world resources) at either point in time.

I think it comes down to Irons having very limited resources - he tried to obtain more kryptonite, after all, but couldn't. He cannibalized his ship that he arrived in for parts for the "creepermobile". He just didn't have the bits he needed to set up anti-kryptonian defenses, and may be what he does have he uses for weapons rather than defense. He might have been more concerned about humans burglarizing his RV than about Kryptonians finding it - after all, Superman could juggle the whole thing if he wanted, or crumple it up like a wad of tinfoil. It's like bomb squads - against conventional explosives they wear those bulky suits and stuff, but squads practicing anti-nuke procedures don't bother with them as they won't protect them if things go bad and just get in the way of doing the primary job. No point in armoring against Superman if you don't have the resources to do so, as half-assed won't work and is just a waste of money and effort.

Papa Lane is not going to be happy with Clark's decision to let Irons go on his merry way

Maybe, maybe not. We don't know if Lane is aware of Irons going on his way, or if he is aware and maybe even backed the idea. Presumably, Irons was debriefed. Certainly, if you're looking to keep anti-Kryptonian deterrents around Irons is your man. As noted, he has taken on Kryptonians and won. He may have lost the war on his homeworld but he survived it. IF Clark ever goes rogue Irons would be someone you'd want on your side.

I also assume Irons, for all that he appears to be taking a bit of a vacation at the end, will continue to investigate Edge and matters around his little crew. Irons might accept this world's Superman as a force for good (at least for now), but that doesn't mean he trusts anyone else.

I do find it significant at the end that Irons has the AI change the profile from "Captain Luthor" to "John Henry Irons". It signals that he is moving on from a past where absolutely everything was focused on killing Superman, revenge, and grief to resuming his identity as a full human being with the full range of emotions and concerns. He's not done with the grief process, but he is moving through it. Also symbolized by taking to the road again. I expect we won't see him again for a few episodes but I expect he will be back at some point.

I also like that they address Jonathan's issues with being non-powered in the family, and that Lois has started to talk to him about being un-powered but in the "orbit" of someone with powers, a situation she had lived with for decades. I would have preferred Clark to point out that Jonathan running into danger and needing saving is something that he, Clark, has had to deal with because not only was Lois doing that sort of stuff before they met, if anything it's gotten worse now that she knows Clark will bail her out. Not that she deliberately does this (although in the comics she has been known to!), but she's a lot less cautious than she might be if Superman wasn't around to save her.

I think we've been teased a bit with whether or not Jonathan gets powers. I still think we've seen some glimpses, but that doesn't mean he'll even ramp up to where Jordan is. Or they could cop out and Jonathan could get exposed to x-kryptonite, but not have the side effects full humans do. Or maybe why part of why Jordan is getting powers is exposure to x-kryptonite, and he's just gotten a bigger dose somehow than Jonathan.

[Broomstick]

Well, OK, that explains why Edge is doing what he's doing and why the pseudo-Kryptonians would work with/follow him.

I didn't watch all of Supergirl - doesn't this mess with how Edge was presented in that show? Of course, this is post-Crisis so in great comic book (and DC) tradition reboot means re-write.

Guess it was a good thing Lane had that 7734 program after all....

[Batman]

I know they're treated like it by the media (and may be officially for all I know) but I don't think current shows like this (or Stargirl) pay much attention to the Arrowverse anymore. Far as I can tell this is at least for now a standalone (remember that in this world they're more or less treating Clark as the 'only' superhuman when as per the Arrowverse they should have him, Kara, and JJ not to mention all the others with different power sets, plus the timejump for him having teenage kids).

I think Lois was too harsh on her Dad. Yes, he should protect family and that gas being contagious was a serious 'oops' but what are the chances this wasn't developed long before Supes became family? Yes, it's still untested, but it's not like they had all that many people to test it on.

Clark taking Jordan to the Fortress actually surprised me. When he supersped off with the kid I actually expected him to take the kid to the sun
as we know thanks to the trip to spain he's spaceworthy and we know how much Kryptonian biology loves yellow sunlight.

Edge being Kryptonian (presumably) came out of nowhere (assuming he merely meant 'brother' as 'fellow Kryptonian' though I think Clark NOT being an only child would be a first). Anybody recognize the chest symbol he was wearing?

[Batman]

Nope, he actually meant 'brother' (if from another father). Haven't seen that before in Superman lore.
Edge has at least one power Clark doesn't (or at least doesn't use very often)-he can hover in place without gently bobbing up and down
Interesting application of the 'Eradicator' concept, I think that was a very well done approach to including that theme.
I'd argue that placing kryptonian minds in human bodies shouldn't give them powers as the powers are part of kryptonian 'biology' but then we'd have to look at how kryptonian biology works and how they somehow manage to metabolize an incredible amount of sunlight that never hits them so let's not go there. Heck for all we know the mind-inserting machined changed their biology to kryptonian.
Mighty convenient that all the Edge metas were close enough to the ground and moving slow enough to survive being de-kryptonized with no apparent injury.
I know Clark said he was going to use his 'solar flare' ability to power the device but from the visuals it looked like he arranged for the Edge meta's heat vision to do it for him. I don't think he planned on this from the start but quick thinking there, Clark, and given Papa Lane said the 'solar flare' would leave Clark powerless for days yet he made it most of the way to the Fortress says he wasn't quite 'that' tapped out.
I WAS expecting Lara to turn on humanity eventually until the very last second. I'm glad I was wrong.

[Batman]

So mostly a holodeck episode but nice looks into Clark's background and I liked the twist about Superman finding out about Lois already being in love with Clark, or Clark being dismayed with reporting on him drowning out reporting on that Neo-Nazi shithead and trying to help fixing that.
No movie 'crystals can grow indefinitely' technology but crystals 'can' get the surrounding countryside to grow into what they want.
Clark giving in like that seems somewhat out of character but the man has on occasion been able to play the long game even before I came along to teach him the moves so we'll have to wait and see.
Was initially dismayed by the prevalence of CRT monitors at the 'Planet', but then I mathed-that was when Clark and Lois first met which was some time before they got married which was some time before she got pregnant which was some 15 or so years before in-universe 'now'. If anything them being pretty 'bigass' CRT monitors speaks for a rather short period between 'start courting 'and 'has babies'

[Broomstick]

Clark giving in like that seems somewhat out of character but the man has on occasion been able to play the long game even before I came along to teach him the moves so we'll have to wait and see.

My take on that is Clark, who is in a weakened state right now, caved in order to save his family.

I would not be surprised to find in retrospect that Clark and Lois had discussed various possibilities with other Kryptonians in the scenario. I note that no one in the Kent family seems to be complaining about Grampa's Kryptonite weapons anymore. Clark and Lois may have even planned to have Lois call in Irons for a scenario like this.

The episode was well name - the first part really was memories, and bookended by serious events.