Foot Race, Kenshin vs Jedi & could Kenshin block blaster

[Lord of the Farce]

You can't "kill" inertia any more than you can kill momentum:

-snip

Please tell me noone requires an explanation of momentum and inertia.

It was just a vague comment about why people using super-speed in Kenshin-verse never seem to leave deep (if any) marks on the ground.

[ShinjiGohan]

One quick question: Can people of Kenshin-verse kill inertia?

As if why aren't they crushed with the sudden jumps at these speed? Or how their swords remain intact after colliding with eachother at this speed?

Its said that Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu (the style Kenshin uses), is more of a superhuman martial art. And Kenshin does feel the toll on his body. After this arc was completed, Kenshin was near death, and was sleeping for about a month to let his body heal from the stress of his style.

So they do feel the inertia, which is one of the reasons why Kenshin's Ougi was so dangerous. Not just for his opponents. But accelerating at those speeds (actually greater than, since he became equal with the speed of the true shukuchi), then drawing his sword (a sakabatou mind you), which when it hits the opponents it doesn't cut clean through like a normal katana would, but the sudden inertia of the mune hitting the opponent (and possibly his sword as well), then knocking the opponent into the air. Makes the stress if the attack increase greatly. And it does wear down Kenshins body. If he had a normal katana that'd at least slice through his opponent, the stress would be much much less. But they somehow survive it.

To put it shortly, they feel it, so they don't kill inertia.

[ShinjiGohan]

You can't "kill" inertia any more than you can kill momentum:

-snip

Please tell me noone requires an explanation of momentum and inertia.

It was just a vague comment about why people using super-speed in Kenshin-verse never seem to leave deep (if any) marks on the ground.

There have been a few examples of this. Like the Shukuchi for example.

But by the same token, why weren't there any marks in the ground when Obiwan did the Force Speed in TPM... probably a detail overlooked by the authors.

[Connor MacLeod]

You can't "kill" inertia any more than you can kill momentum:

-snip

Please tell me noone requires an explanation of momentum and inertia.

It was just a vague comment about why people using super-speed in Kenshin-verse never seem to leave deep (if any) marks on the ground.

That requires uniform acceleration of the body by a field effect - much like gravity.

(hint, Jedi require much the same in their own accelerations. ) TK would be the obvious answer, although I dont even nkow if TK exists in Kenshinverse.

[Lord of the Farce]

There have been a few examples of this. Like the Shukuchi for example.

But by the same token, why weren't there any marks in the ground when Obiwan did the Force Speed in TPM... probably a detail overlooked by the authors.

In the Kenshin anime, we frequently don't see Kenshin leaving any footprints on dirt and wooden surfaces when he is using his super-speed.

For TPM, Telekinesis + Durasteel floor.

[Connor MacLeod]

I dont think there's enough friction on the ground to accelerate that fast by normal legwork.

Besides, even if there was, there's a small problem with the fact that any gee forces over 10gees (basically) are going to be fatal for a human.

[ShinjiGohan]

Actually from shown speed. Kenshin was going at about 97.94 meters/sec before he left the screen.

Whatever. It was a hypothetical example.

I know, I was just pointing it out.

What I was trying to say is that we don't know how much longer Kenshin accelerated after he left the screen. As after the frame where he leaves the screen, it pans to Hiko, where he waits for a second or two, then slightly bends his knees, and then he jumps.

Thats fine, but it doesnt affect anything much. We can limit it by whether or not he went supersonic or remained subsonic though. So unless you get shockwaves, he's not moving faster than around 330 m/s roughly.[/quote]

So far, there hasn't been anything indicating that asside from some small debre following Soujirou when he did the Shukuchi IIRC.

That had a few of the techniques that they do with the sword do create shockwaves, like the Izuna for example.

[Connor MacLeod]

The sonic boom would be from the body itself exceeding the sound barrier. No sort of blast or shockwave they release as an attack.

[ShinjiGohan]

You can't "kill" inertia any more than you can kill momentum:

-snip

Please tell me noone requires an explanation of momentum and inertia.

It was just a vague comment about why people using super-speed in Kenshin-verse never seem to leave deep (if any) marks on the ground.

That requires uniform acceleration of the body by a field effect - much like gravity.

(hint, Jedi require much the same in their own accelerations. ) TK would be the obvious answer, although I dont even nkow if TK exists in Kenshinverse.

There hasn't been any real evidence to say that there exists TK, at least not to the degree of picking up objects. They have been shown with their Ken ki, to create rather intense winds, to knock people off their feet, or bend/break the trees in a surrounding forest. But I wouldn't count that as TK. Though something more inline with a Force Push.

In the Kenshin anime, we frequently don't see Kenshin leaving any footprints on dirt and wooden surfaces when he is using his super-speed.

For TPM, Telekinesis + Durasteel floor.

Not too often. Closest that I can think of for Kenshin is when he circled around Akumatsu and left a trail behind him. And I wouldn't even count that as a foot print from superspeed.

Or possibly the pivot foot for Kenshins Ougi (part 2), which clearly left a big hole in the ground.

Though when Shishio and Kenshin clashed their swords, they began to destroy the floor that they were standing on. Which also may have been affected by their combined Ken ki.

Though others like Enishi with Nerves of Insanity, created several small explosions in his wake when he started running in the sand.

But for the most part I definitely agree with you. There is a surprising lack of ground destruction from Kenshins movements.

[ShinjiGohan]

The sonic boom would be from the body itself exceeding the sound barrier. No sort of blast or shockwave they release as an attack.

As I said, the closest that we see is from Soujirous Shukuchu (though there is a lack of the boom), or possibly from Enishi's running with the Nerves of Insanity on.

hmm, not that I think about it, there was also a little bit of a void in the Kenshin vs Jinee fight. But again, no audio sonic boom. And even a train moving quickly will produce a small void behind it. So at best, it would be described as that.

So no, I can't think of an instance where the human body of Kenshin or anything he's gone up against was faster than mach 1. While they have moved their swords at such speeds. But never themselves.

[Connor MacLeod]

It doesnt have to be a TK itself. It would be some sort of "force" that effects a uniform acceleration on the body. TK just happens to be the most convenient form.

[ShinjiGohan]

stupid me, I also forgot Saitous Gatotsu vs Shishio.

hmm, another possible explaination would be like how Race cars stay close to the ground (a rather unlikely explaination however). Since Kenshin... wait Kenshin wasn't wearing those wooden shoes. Well in theory, I suppose it may still apply.

You know how race cars have the front low? And the back high? So as to create a small pull on the car downward due to aerodyanamics. However unlikely, if you run where your feet are almost gliding across the floor (as seen when Kenshin went into his Battousai mode against Chou), his sandles may create a small void between the ground and his sandles, which keeps his feet close to the ground. But even if such effect was present, on such a small surface area as one's foot, and having the run just right, would not have enough of the desired affect. Though it probably factors in, even if the effect is marginal.

[Ghost Rider]

1. How would their swords move at Mach 1?! Are they of unto themselves a seperate entity?

Sowrds aren't bullets...they are being propelled by the person not an outside force that the person has no control over. And also how would they survive, unless you believe swords can withstand that sort of impact.

2. You analogy with the car is silly. So he 's some lessening his "Downforce" you say?

You do know what that means....he's increasing his grip on the floor.

So please answer the question...how does he survive cutting through the air at those speed unless he has some factor that allows him and his clothes such level of resistence.

[lgot]

Its said that Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu (the style Kenshin uses), is more of a superhuman martial art. And Kenshin does feel the toll on his body. After this arc was completed, Kenshin was near death, and was sleeping for about a month to let his body heal from the stress of his style.

ohho. Kenshin is near the death because he was hurt by Aoshi, Seta and Shishio a couple of times. Not because his style. Hiko only says that the final technique could kill the user if he was not physically fit enough to perform it.

Plus I have a question about Kenshin's speed. What is the speed (in m/s) of a charioty pushed by 2 horses (I know a lot of them out there, just pick a good vallue of a very fast one)

[Lord of the Farce]

Plus I have a question about Kenshin's speed. What is the speed (in m/s) of a charioty pushed by 2 horses (I know a lot of them out there, just pick a good vallue of a very fast one)

As far as I've been able to find out, chariots with the horses at full gallop (don't know about sustained speed, though) can get around 40mph, or around 17.88 m/s.

[lgot]

so, we have there a about limitation to Kenshin's speed:
He uses a charioty to run after Shishio, so he must be slower than it but mainly about Seta's speed: Kenshin decifres Seta's speed as to be the reason of why he could attack and kill Okubo inside the charioty. The famous Seta's speed is a speed that is enough to allow him a interceptation of charioty running.
Just that...

[Lord of the Farce]

so, we have there a about limitation to Kenshin's speed:
He uses a charioty to run after Shishio, so he must be slower than it but mainly about Seta's speed: Kenshin decifres Seta's speed as to be the reason of why he could attack and kill Okubo inside the charioty. The famous Seta's speed is a speed that is enough to allow him a interceptation of charioty running.
Just that...

Unimportant, but why did you spell "chariot" with a "y"?

Also, I can't recall, but was Okubo's chariot going at full gallop? Because you don't run horses at that speed if you want them to go for any real distance.

[lgot]

Because I am mistaken ^^

There is no clue for the distance he is going - it was a place in the same city - but he was with some rush because the meeting with Kenshin. But could be that was not full speed.
Unlike the chariot that Saitou and Kenshin take, which we can guess was running faster as possible

[ShinjiGohan]

1. How would their swords move at Mach 1?! Are they of unto themselves a seperate entity?

Sowrds aren't bullets...they are being propelled by the person not an outside force that the person has no control over. And also how would they survive, unless you believe swords can withstand that sort of impact.

Normal swords shouldn't withstand that kind of impact. Yet somehow these swords to.

Assume that you're running at 97 m/s. If you were to punch, wouldn't the punch go faster than 97 m/s (not in perspective to the running, but to the outside observers).

2. You analogy with the car is silly. So he 's some lessening his "Downforce" you say?

You do know what that means....he's increasing his grip on the floor.

That was in response to how Kenshin has traction at those speeds. So yes, I do know what that means. I admitted that it was a long shot, but the effect wouldn't be anywhere near that of a car, but its one possible explaination.

So please answer the question...how does he survive cutting through the air at those speed unless he has some factor that allows him and his clothes such level of resistence.

Same way that a person using a whip gets the tip of the whip to break the sound barrier.

ohho. Kenshin is near the death because he was hurt by Aoshi, Seta and Shishio a couple of times. Not because his style. Hiko only says that the final technique could kill the user if he was not physically fit enough to perform it.

Aoshi also states after receiving the Ougi, that the stress on the body is many times normal for a move like the Amakakuru ryu no hirameki.

And Hiko commented, that the second part of the move will only come out if the person executing the move is in good enough condition to pull it off correctly. Not that the person would die if he was injured.

What you may be thinking is the persons mind setting. If there is the slightest doubt or negative feeling in your mind when doing the Ougi, you won't do the move correctly, and the opponent would most likely land a blow before you and kill you.

Plus I have a question about Kenshin's speed. What is the speed (in m/s) of a charioty pushed by 2 horses (I know a lot of them out there, just pick a good vallue of a very fast one)

That was more of an issue of stamina I believe. Unless you think you can run from Kyoto to Osaka at those speeds without tiring yourself out.

so, we have there a about limitation to Kenshin's speed:
He uses a charioty to run after Shishio, so he must be slower than it but mainly about Seta's speed: Kenshin decifres Seta's speed as to be the reason of why he could attack and kill Okubo inside the charioty. The famous Seta's speed is a speed that is enough to allow him a interceptation of charioty running.
Just that...

Or maybe Kenshin, Saitou and Sano couldn't sustain such speeds for extended period of time. Also considering that they went as a group, and Sano and Saitou being much slower than Kenshin. Plus running all those miles would increase the chance of them spraining an ankle or get injured somewhere along the way. Those are much more logical reasons for why they rode in the carriage rather than they were slower than the carriage.

Also consider that Soujirou searched the entire east half of Japan in about 4 days to gather all of the junponganta. And a few of them like Anji where in remote areas in the forest were one would have to look long and hard to find them. So that shows that Soujirou was faster than a mere carriage. Never mind the calcs confirm that as well.

There is no clue for the distance he is going - it was a place in the same city - but he was with some rush because the meeting with Kenshin. But could be that was not full speed.
Unlike the chariot that Saitou and Kenshin take, which we can guess was running faster as possible

Actually, they weren't going to some port in the city. Kyoto isn't even near the water. They were going to Osaka. About 30 miles from Kyoto. Unless you expect 3 men to run a marathon before fighting Shishio, Soujirou and a few other hencemen is a good idea.

[Lord of the Farce]

Plus I have a question about Kenshin's speed. What is the speed (in m/s) of a charioty pushed by 2 horses (I know a lot of them out there, just pick a good vallue of a very fast one)

That was more of an issue of stamina I believe. Unless you think you can run from Kyoto to Osaka at those speeds without tiring yourself out.

That didn't actually answer the question that was quoted, but nevermind.

There is no clue for the distance he is going - it was a place in the same city - but he was with some rush because the meeting with Kenshin. But could be that was not full speed.
Unlike the chariot that Saitou and Kenshin take, which we can guess was running faster as possible

Actually, they weren't going to some port in the city. Kyoto isn't even near the water. They were going to Osaka. About 30 miles from Kyoto. Unless you expect 3 men to run a marathon before fighting Shishio, Soujirou and a few other hencemen is a good idea.

The relevance of the part you quoted is about the upper-limit of the speed that Sojiro needed to overcome to catch up with a horse-pulled carriage.

[JodoForce]

It seems to me that, since Jedi never used super-speed in any combat scenes in the movie--even against non-Jedi (there goes that argument about Jedi slowing each other down), while Kenshinverse warriors use it regularly in combat, that the burden of proof is on Star Wars supporters to show that Obi-wan can actually use his super-speed in combat against Kenshin.

[Lord of the Farce]

It seems to me that, since Jedi never used super-speed in any combat scenes in the movie--even against non-Jedi (there goes that argument about Jedi slowing each other down), while Kenshinverse warriors use it regularly in combat, that the burden of proof is on Star Wars supporters to show that Obi-wan can actually use his super-speed in combat against Kenshin.

Luke Skywalker: Rush-trained Jedi Knight, (after getting slapped up-side of his head once by what might be the deadliest assassin droid in the galaxy) let go of himself in the Force, suddenly everything slows down and he has all the time in the world to do whatever (ref: Shadows of the Empire).

[Ghost Rider]

As for slowing down each other...

The novelization of TPM and AoTC mention this effect in both in Maul's and Dooku's battle.

So please don't go screaming that they obviously never did it when canon states otherwise.

[JodoForce]

Ok, ok...

Just tell me why Obi-wan didn't use super-speed to defeat Jango Fett at the landing site.

[JodoForce]

You're lucky books are counted as official...

But since no examples of superspeed combat was shown in any of the movies, you can't quantify the acceleration / top speed available to Jedi in cambat, can you?