Lord of the Rings creature question

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2003-09-16 06:13pm

HemlockGrey wrote:RotK describes them as being involved in the attack on Gondor, but Aragorn says that they were all slain, much to Sam's disapointment; as he was unable to find one in Mordor, it seems likely that there were very few of them left, or that only a few came out of Harad.

I think only a few were brought from Harad with the Haradian Army.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-17 12:33am

HemlockGrey wrote:RotK describes them as being involved in the attack on Gondor, but Aragorn says that they were all slain, much to Sam's disapointment; as he was unable to find one in Mordor, it seems likely that there were very few of them left, or that only a few came out of Harad.

Probably the former though we can't really know, supplying such a huge army would be hard enough without a bunch of elephant sized creatures eating 500 pounds of fodder a day. Course if they where movie sized you could add a zero or two to that figure.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2003-09-20 01:47am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:Doesn't "Oliphaunt" mean elephant in Medieval French?

I suppose that makes sense as Tolken was a linguist first and a storyteller second. I saw a documentary on the extras for Fellowship that said he only wanted to write fantasy so that he had an excuse to create languages for his races.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-09-20 02:05am

Vendetta wrote:
Tolkien wrote:Big as a house, much bigger than a house, it looked to him, a grey-clad moving hill. Fear and wonder, amybe, enlarged him in the hobbit's eyes, but the Mumak of Harad was indeed a beast of vast bulk, and the like of him does not walk now in Middle-earth; his kin that live still in latter days are but memories of his girth and majesty
It does point out that they are larger than modern elephants. It also mentions that a warrior, "giant among the Southrons" was a "tiny figure" high upon the creature's neck.

Huh??

It's a damn long time ago since I read LoTR, but to me it seemed like the Oliphaunts were supposed to be elephants and just that. BTW - the thing about the warrior being a "tiny figure upon the creatures neck" could be an exaggeration - after all, in medieval times when Europeans ventured to far away lands and returned they often exaggerated a lot in their accounts. (For example, at the first sight of a crocodile they might have thought it was a dragon)

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2003-09-20 10:45pm

Actually, Mumakil were mentioned to be much larger than modern day elephants. I'll quote the entire passage from "Of Herbs and Stwewed Rabbit"

To his astonishment and terror, and lasting delight, Sam saw a vast shape crash out of the trees and come carrering down the slope. Big as a house, much bigger than a house, it looked to him, a grey clad moving hill, but the Mumak of Harad was indeed a beast of vast bulk and the like of him does not walk now in Middle Earth; his kin that live still in latter days are but memories of his girth and majesty. On he came, straigh towards the watchers, and then swerved aside in the nick of time, passing only a few yards away, rocking the ground beneath their feet: his great legs like trees, enormous sail like ears spread out, long snout upraised like a serpent about to strike, his small red eyes raging. His upturned hornlike tusks were bound with bands of gold and dripped with blood. His trapppings of scarlet and gold flapped about him in wild tatters. The ruins of what seemed a very war-tower lay upon his heaving back, smashed in his furious passage through the woods and high upon his neck still desperately clung a tiny figure - the body of a mighty warrior, a giant among the Swertings

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-09-21 02:26am

Shadow WarChief wrote:Actually, Mumakil were mentioned to be much larger than modern day elephants. I'll quote the entire passage from "Of Herbs and Stwewed Rabbit"

Big as a house, much bigger than a house, it looked to him, a grey clad moving hill, but the Mumak of Harad was indeed a beast of vast bulk and the like of him does not walk now in Middle Earth; his kin that live still in latter days are but memories of his girth and majesty.

Maybe it was just a figure of speech or the way Sam interpretated it - after all, it could be that the Mumak was an African elephant and all other elephants Sam saw after seeing Mumak were Indian elephants...

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-09-21 03:01am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:Maybe it was just a figure of speech or the way Sam interpretated it - after all, it could be that the Mumak was an African elephant and all other elephants Sam saw after seeing Mumak were Indian elephants...

This is part of the narrative, not Sam's stream of consciousness - Tolkien sometimes related to modern times in his stories.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-09-21 03:24am

Dalton wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote:Maybe it was just a figure of speech or the way Sam interpretated it - after all, it could be that the Mumak was an African elephant and all other elephants Sam saw after seeing Mumak were Indian elephants...
This is part of the narrative, not Sam's stream of consciousness - Tolkien sometimes related to modern times in his stories.

So there were indeed giants in those days of old...

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-09-21 04:25am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Dalton wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote:Maybe it was just a figure of speech or the way Sam interpretated it - after all, it could be that the Mumak was an African elephant and all other elephants Sam saw after seeing Mumak were Indian elephants...
This is part of the narrative, not Sam's stream of consciousness - Tolkien sometimes related to modern times in his stories.
So there were indeed giants in those days of old...

Dragons, dwarves, hobbits and elves - and you think giant elephants were out of the question