The OotS thread

[DarthShady]

Cant believe I haven't seen this thread until now.

Awesome comic and it keeps getting better.

Does Xykon even stand a chance against V, in his current state?

[Kodiak]

Whipped this up real quick:

*snipped badass motivator*

That's awesome on a level that few motivators ever approach. I really hope V get's to keep his new-found power for a while longer.

[Solauren]

Cant believe I haven't seen this thread until now.

Awesome comic and it keeps getting better.

Does Xykon even stand a chance against V, in his current state?

Depends.

If we assume Xykon's minimum level is 21 (required to cast Epic spells), he's probably got some heavy duty spells of his own (naturally, he is a lich after all)

V just has more spells available, not more spells at a time. The most V could cast is 2 (Quicken Spell feat). Xykon may or may not have that.

Xykon also has a lower level mystic theurage, and Redcloak working with him, which levels any fight out some what. They can keep healing Xykon while Xykon does the mage duel routine. Mystic-Theurage girl might be able to help counter spell some of V's offensive.

Plus, there is the whatever it is under the Umbrella. We have no idea what that is yet. (My personal bet is it's a young or juvi epic dragon wearing some kind of size reduction magic item. That would put it at CR 21 - 30)

Now, here's a scary thought;

Alot of V's mental fortitude (i.e Will) is going to be used keeping the other three souls in line. I wouldn't be surprised if, as a side-effect, V's functional Will save is now in the toilet.

Imagine this effect; Xykon casts 'Dominate Person' (or better) on V, and V fails the saving throw....

Nice new weapon Xykon just picked up.

[avatarxprime]

For the curious, the runes around the circle read:

BET YOU THOUGHT YOU HAD FOUND A SECRET MESSAGE IN THIS DIDN'T YOU

Rich loves his work a little too much.

Another nice touch is that the energy streaming from the 3 souls looks more like chains binding V than anything else.

[Peptuck]

Two things I noticed.

The three fiends are the exact same trio of fiends that gave Sabine her orders waaaaaay back. I just noticed this.

Second: That black dragon is chaotic evil. And she engaged in a long, gloating monologue explaining her actions, and the three fiends just happen to show up right afterward? Too much of a coincidence. Methinks V is being played more than we've already surmised....

[Solauren]

Yes and no.

Those three fiends being Sabine's bosses meant they were aware of the Snarl.
They would also be tracking the adventuring group that is dealing with the Snarl.
To not be tracking the Order of the Stick is well, beyond stupid. Quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Xyklon is keeping a lose eye on them.

They were simply waiting for the right opprotunity to act.

And Chaotic Evil creatures have some of the best monologues out there.

[Styphon]

636 up!

[DarthShady]

636 up!

That is one very surprised Dragon.

[Solauren]

Love the smile on V's face.

I can imagine the look on her face however, when her family no longer wants anything to do with her now that V is evil magical power incarnate.

A quickened disintegrate.... nice. Doesn't really give any indication about the power level of the souls V is bound to, unfortunately. (Quicked Disintegrate is only a 10th level spell, meaning V would only need Increased Spell Capacity once to cast it.)

Can't wait for Xyklon and V to have a throw down now....

And personally, I would have cast Dominate Monster, followed by Permanency on the Dragon. Odds are, it knows where Halley is.

[Serafina]

Well, im pretty sure Vs mind is busy enough keeping the evil souls at bay (at least a little bit) - not a good condition to come up with a good plan.

But otherwise - this strip is awesome - V just shattered (literary) the dragons best weapon.

[Mr Bean]

I'm still waiting for V to break things by hitting the Dragon with Demise Unseen. Hey Ancient Black Dragon, who wants to be my permanent undead thrall? Dominate Monster can be dispelled, if it is you get an angry now free dragon. Demise can't be dispelled.

[Solauren]

I'd used an improved variant personally (i.e into a Curst). Ghouls can be killed. Cursts can not (easily)

[The Grim Squeaker]

Goddamit, the server will NOT load for me. Also, I have some awesome photos of a dude dressed up as (Dashing Swordsman) Elan with Banjo from a Rocky show last night, pics forthcoming.

[Peptuck]

Goddamn, that was so casually awesome.

[Ted C]

Egad! What's V's effective caster level? Disjunction only has a 1% chance per caster level of breaking an anti-magic shell, but it looks like Psycho-V had no doubt it would succeed.

[Solauren]

Egad! What's V's effective caster level? Disjunction only has a 1% chance per caster level of breaking an anti-magic shell, but it looks like Psycho-V had no doubt it would succeed.

Given what we've seen V thrown... I'd say it was at least

14th level (V)
21st level (Soul #1) (minimum required to be an epic level character)
21st level (Soul #2) (minimum required to be an epic level character)
21st level (Soul #3) (minimum required to be an epic level character)
---
75

That's assuming that the levels in the Soul Splice are stacking (which they shouldn't really).

The rules even say you can't take levels in one specialist wizard class, then another. And wizard and sorcerer levels don't stack.

Unless the Soul Splice has some weird Theurgamatic effect going on, similiar to the Theurgy Feats from Dragaon Magazine 325. Like a variant of the Theurgic Specialist Feat, for example.

(Searches my database....)

Yup, only think like it in the entire collective rules from WOTC/Paizo (when it was publishing Dragon + Dungeon)

However, I still like the effect.

Too bad celestials don't offer stuff like this to people. I think angelic V would also be cool.

[Mr Bean]

Egad! What's V's effective caster level? Disjunction only has a 1% chance per caster level of breaking an anti-magic shell, but it looks like Psycho-V had no doubt it would succeed.

All the souls were Epic level or close enough to it. The most powerful mages remember that if V gets the combine your talking about a minimum of caster level 60-69 from three epic level magic users plus V's own levels which per the forum I think was pegged around 14? So caster level 82 minimum?

That assumes V gets spell levels from every soul together(The three souls being level 20 to 23), the forums over at Oots are already talking about it and I'll quote the relevant parts.

My take is that V shouldn't be that powerful, and hir effective challenge rating would be little more than 20.

Assuming the three souls were about level 23 (higher would make no sense in my opinion) and V take only the spellcasting capabilities (spell slots, effective caster level, ranks in spellcraft and concentration, metamagic feats, and not anything else), I'd say he's considerably weaker that the three mages taken together.
The reason is he can't cast more than one epic spell and one quickened mid level spell in one round, and even assuming the caster levels stacks (going to about 80) every damaging spell has an upper limit of caster level (fireball max 10 d6, disintegrate max 40 d6,...) so a ludicrous caster level would do him no good (for epic spells I don't know anything more than neverwinter nights, so I may be wrong).
The three guys can cast three times more spells, have more HP and better saves, and level appropriate equipment, and would be CR 26 (two 23 make a 25, a 25 + a 23 make a 26).
Give or take, he don't have much more arcane power than a single epic mage: he can lay the same waste in one round and is only slightly more versatile. For the sake of simplicity, I'd assume that compensates much the loss of HP, saves, and items, and put V's callenge rate in the 21-23 range, with a much better than normal capability of fighting multiple encounters. Pretty low, considering what he had done.
Since mama dragon has a specifical anti-caster build, it may not be enough even to defeat her (unless epic spells ignores anti magic fields; still, V needs to dispose of her in one action, or she won't leave him a second round).

That's a lot of arbitrary (yet reasonable) assumptions on how the details works, so we can't tell for sure. The laws of cool and plot would dictate that V is really powerful now, much more than a 21-23 CR. on the other hand, maybe V won't be that powerful, and will thus realize that ultimate arcane power isn't as great as it sounds. Also, i wouldn't put past Rich to bluff us in giving the impression V is superman, than having him take a severe beating.

Except that the fiends specifically say that V's effective level is now so high that e won't get any XP from any foes that he defeats. Given that V's obvious expected foe is a CR of at least 22, that says to me that es effective level, as far as the game rules are concerned at least, is much higher than mid-20s. Does anyone have access to the epic XP table? At what level does a CR 22 no longer give XP?

Level 30. The only question is whether any of the bound souls actually give V. access to power that ridiculous, or if s/he simply is screwed over by an effective CR that is not reflective of V.'s actual power.

Do not confuse someone's level with someone's effective power.
V will tecnically be a wizard (evoker) 14/wizard (conjurer) 20+/wizard (something else) 20+/ sorcerer 20+ , for a total level of about 80. That doesn't mean that he will be that powerful, because
1) In all likelyhood, V won't get any hit dice, saving throw, feat, items, or such from that 60+ levels: only spellcasting capabilities (which is not little thing, but still not as good), and
2) he's got an awfully inefficient class combination: 4 different caster classes. If v got the same build now, he would be a wizard (1) 4/wizard (2) 3/wizard (3) 3/sorceror 4, and couldn't cast spells beyond 2nd level. Hir level would still be 14, but he would have the fighting power of an amoeba. Tecnically, for the rules, he would still have a level of 14, and monster with a CR of 6, while providing no XP to him, would be deadly encounters.
The game "rules" cannot encompass every particular case, and in fact it is explicitly written on the DM manual that they are not rules, but mostly guidelines, and the DM should ignore/change them when he feels is necessary. This is one of such cases.

Now we have more information about what the Soul Splice has given V.

It's given h** the spells Greater Teleport and Disjunction, h** Int is currently at least 30, the minimum required to gain a 10th level slot, (s)he has the Improved Spell Capacity feat. That is, if we're tracking what the Soul Splice gives h** separately.]

[CaptainChewbacca]

Given Disjunction only gives a 1% chance per caster level of shattering defenses, I'd guess V's ECL is at least 80 now, if not higher.

[avatarxprime]

V's appearance was so short but so very awesome. I wonder if this really is the end of the Dragon or if she will somehow survive.

[Ford Prefect]

V's appearance was so short but so very awesome. I wonder if this really is the end of the Dragon or if she will somehow survive.

I certainly hope not. Disintegrate her and move on.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

I'm guessing the Dragon is going to at least get a couple words in. She'd need to be Adult or younger to have low enough HP for even a maximised Disintegrate to kill her outright, and I'm fairly sure she's at least size Huge, which means she's older than that. That means that the only chance of death is rolling a natural one on the Massive Damage save. Or, of course, the spell doing something crazy like lifting the caster level limit on Disintegrate or casting it four times at once or something.

That's not saying I expect her to last long. Then again, Rich does seem to delight in thwarting predictions.

[Lord of the Abyss]

V's appearance was so short but so very awesome. I wonder if this really is the end of the Dragon or if she will somehow survive.

I certainly hope not. Disintegrate her and move on.

As several people on the OOTS forum pointed out, when the dragon appeared she mockingly said "Say Disintegrate for me again" to V. V could be mocking her right back by granting her request . . .

[Ford Prefect]

As I see it, the comic needs to avoid getting bogged down too much. This arc with V is quite interesting and it could potentially be very interesting in future (which is frankly what was needed for such a dull character). However, the dragon has served her purpose, in triggering this character development. The sooner she dies and the sooner the characters are relevant to the plot again, the better.

[consequences]

I'm guessing the Dragon is going to at least get a couple words in. She'd need to be Adult or younger to have low enough HP for even a maximised Disintegrate to kill her outright, and I'm fairly sure she's at least size Huge, which means she's older than that. That means that the only chance of death is rolling a natural one on the Massive Damage save. Or, of course, the spell doing something crazy like lifting the caster level limit on Disintegrate or casting it four times at once or something.

That's not saying I expect her to last long. Then again, Rich does seem to delight in thwarting predictions.

It would almost certainly have more words attached if it had been enhanced by other metamagic. And while a Twin Enhanced Intensified Quickened Disintegrate would be cool as hell, it's also a 25th level spell or so, barring Improved Metamagic.

I would be pleasantly surprised if she called in help in the form of her rezzed mate and child.

[Mr Bean]

I would be pleasantly surprised if she called in help in the form of her rezzed mate and child.

V is specifically blocked from using Wish or any other such spell to duplicate divine magic. And all the necro spells require either time or the body present(Demise Unseen)