The OotS Thread III

[Crazedwraith]

Crap, more fantasy land

[Spekio]

I hope they are somehow important to the story. The first strip was all I needed about the PC's fantasies.

[Crazedwraith]

well, someone mentioned earlier the last strip was called 'happy ending'. I am really hoping this doesn't count as the twist Elan's prophesied 'Happy Ending' from the Oracle. And something horrible happens to him right afterwards.

[Ahriman238]

Wow, they're going through subjective months or years in that illusion, they're going to be pissed when they find out a substantial portion of their lives never happened.

[Spekio]

well, someone mentioned earlier the last strip was called 'happy ending'. I am really hoping this doesn't count as the twist Elan's prophesied 'Happy Ending' from the Oracle. And something horrible happens to him right afterwards.

That would actually be pretty cool.

[CarsonPalmer]

According to the Giant from some time back, Elan's prophecy was also a guarantee to the reader that the story will never become overly dark. To kill him off so soon after Durkon gets vampirised(or worse, to kill off Haley) would seem pretty bleak.

[Isolder74]

Hopefully the fact that the ending is too perfect will clue them in to the fact it's an illusion in the next strip.

[Simon_Jester]

That's a very nice-spirited dream Elan is having.

Wow, they're going through subjective months or years in that illusion, they're going to be pissed when they find out a substantial portion of their lives never happened.

I'm not so sure. I think it may just be flashing them through the highlights. The goal of the trap is to keep them pinned down, probably for a limited period of time until the Draketooth Clan could come along and finish off the incapacitated intruder. Accelerating their perception of time so they spend subjective years in the illusion would if anything make it more likely that they'd start spotting subtle inconsistencies and getting suspicious. So instead, you stick them in a sort of flip-book version of their fondest dreams and ambitions, so that the continuous euphoria of having achieved one's dreams stops you from wanting to question the illusion.

Also, there may be a limit on the illusion's ability to create realistic versions of intelligent beings. If Roy spends years of subjective time with a fake Celia, he might spot the trouble at some point. Unlike, say, Elan or Belkar, he's smart enough to notice something's wrong if someone acts like an idealized Stepford-wife fantasy.

[FaxModem1]

Roy looks disturbed at the wedding in the last panel. I think he's starting to figure out something's wrong.

[PKRudeBoy]

Also, in Elan's ideal world, I doubt that Tarquin and his mom would have a pre-nup, although that may just be him realizing his father's genre savviness.

[Simon_Jester]

Roy is only slightly more frowny-faced than, say, Nale.

Also, I'm not sure the part is actually sharing the fantasy. Belkar surely wouldn't be fantasizing about dying- but Roy would, and that gets woven into his "happy ending." Belkar's happy ending probably consists of him getting a mountain of "sexy shoeless god of war" stuff and whatnot.

[Irbis]

As someone I talked to pointed out - Belkar pretty much said he should have died instead, so him dying and Durkon living might be pretty much perfect meeting of wishes of entire party. Especially seeing I don't see Roy or Haley even bothering to bury him.

Or Belkar walks on the wedding ruining the illusion and getting everyone incredibly pissed at him. Works too.

[Lord of the Abyss]

It looks to me like a collaborative fantasy, not just Elan's . That pre-nup isn't very Elan-ish, and Roy's interaction with the kids outside is pure Roy-fantasy. And I doubt that Elan thinks of his mother as "Elan's Mother".

I like Malack in his Death Pope outfit.

[Crazedwraith]

I would think its very likely to be a collaborative fantasy.

Interestingly. It seems Vaarsuivius' mate is at the wedding. (green haired elf with pony tail next to V in the last panel) Now Elan and Roy would never have met her at all. But Haley knew about her. So its possible Inkyrius' presence in the illusion is her doing?

Along the knight Elan worked with before meeting the Order, who only he would know. And no members of Tarquin's adventuring party that the order haven't met.

[Lord of the Abyss]

889 up!
Spoiler

And they're free! I like how it was Elan who saw through it.

STILL no sight of Belkar, in or out of the illusion...I suspect the next comic will involve whatever's happened to him. Still in the illusion because he wasn't "there" at the wedding for Elan to wake up? Dropped dead since he "died" in the illusion? Pissed off because he was dead and no one resurrected him?

[Lord of the Abyss]

Spoiler

Small oops, due to being tired; you can just see the edge of Belkar's head and extremities in the illusion-breaking panel and see he's still standing, so he isn't likely to be dead. That still leaves the possibility he's stuck in the illusion still. I wonder if it can be broken from the outside?

[Irbis]

Spoiler

Small oops, due to being tired; you can just see the edge of Belkar's head and extremities in the illusion-breaking panel and see he's still standing, so he isn't likely to be dead. That still leaves the possibility he's stuck in the illusion still. I wonder if it can be broken from the outside?

Oh, finally spoiler tags. Nice.
Spoiler

Well, it can be bait and switch, since we doesn't see his eyes, but I don't think so. I wonder if in meantime LG or summoned guardians surrounded OotS?

Also, so much for Roy's wisdom, Elan's good Will save easily outweighs it, it seems

[Simon_Jester]

Spoiler

Small oops, due to being tired; you can just see the edge of Belkar's head and extremities in the illusion-breaking panel and see he's still standing, so he isn't likely to be dead. That still leaves the possibility he's stuck in the illusion still. I wonder if it can be broken from the outside?

Oh, finally spoiler tags. Nice.
Spoiler

Well, it can be bait and switch, since we doesn't see his eyes, but I don't think so. I wonder if in meantime LG or summoned guardians surrounded OotS?

Also, so much for Roy's wisdom, Elan's good Will save easily outweighs it, it seems

Spoiler

I'm betting that the trap was supposed to immobilize people until the Draketooth clan themselves could tackle them. It's a pretty long term trap, and could easily hold someone in place for hours of external time, so if there were summoned guardians or enemies around them, those guardians would have already attacked.

In short, this is the magical equivalent of a spider's web, but V's Familicide spell killed the spider.

Also, I'm not sure the Linear Guild could get through the trap either- at least some of them would be at risk of being incapacitated.

Spoiler

This refutes my theory about each person getting their own fantasy. On the other hand, it also presents the problem I identified- the spell is running people through a large amount of subjective time and experiences. I can see two possibilities:

One is that this is an inherent limitation of the spell- it has to keep exposing you to different wish-fulfillment fantasies, which means using a lot of subjective time, which increases the risk of someone eventually breaking free.

The other is that it "fast-forwards" the time between peak events, in hopes of keeping the subject too off balance to stop and think about what's going on. In which case Elan, with his constant meta-awareness of the plot implications of what's happening, is uniquely qualified to break free.

[Kuja]

I think three posts is enough of a spoiler barrier. Way to go Elan.

I'm betting that the trap was supposed to immobilize people until the Draketooth clan themselves could tackle them. It's a pretty long term trap, and could easily hold someone in place for hours of external time, so if there were summoned guardians or enemies around them, those guardians would have already attacked.

This is what I'm thinking as well.

Also, I'm not sure the Linear Guild could get through the trap either-

Malack and Durkon are not only undead, but likely to have high will saves, while Tarquin is a higher-level character. The one probably most like to get swirly-eyed is Nale, and the others can just slap him out of it.

Likewise if Xykon and Redcloak end up running through it.

[Simon_Jester]

Tarquin is high level, but I'm not sure he's higher-level than Gerard Draketooth, who probably enchanted the thing in the first place. You're right about Malack and Durkon though. Would the illusion have no effect on them?

[Ahriman238]

Tarquin is high level, but I'm not sure he's higher-level than Gerard Draketooth, who probably enchanted the thing in the first place. You're right about Malack and Durkon though. Would the illusion have no effect on them?

Clerics and Undead both get really good Will saves. An undead cleric should be about as immune to illusion as you can get without having a specific, spelled out immunity, or an optimized build centered around resisting illusions. Wait, what am I saying, undead cleric IS the optimized anti-illusionist build.

Undead are automatically immune to mind-affecting spells, including Charm, Compulsion and some illusion spells but not others. Spells that create an actual false image that is objectively present are fine, spells that affect the sense but not necessarily the mind are a greyer area. Spells that create false memories or alter perception of time? Unless the Draketooths (or just Girard) are some homebrew so skilled with illusions they can ignore the normal rules, Malack and Durkon would only notice the trap when their companions stopped moving.

[Solauren]

Theory: Belkar's illusion completely changed his personality, and he is no longer 'Belkar Bitterleaf'

Thereby fulfilling the prophecy, but keeping a popular character around.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Random wild speculation: the spell grabs Nale and the Drow, and it turns out that it can't be broken externally by any magic Malack has. So Malack vampires them both making them immune, intending to use the excuses of "tactical necessity" and "he's not dead dead, just undead" with Tarquin - and now he has Nale as his puppet, to do with as he pleases.

[Napoleon the Clown]

I could see Tarquin investing in magic items to help him resist or be outright immune to mind-affecting since he knew where he was going. He's a fairly sharp individual and given his mask trick I'm inclined to say that he knows how to plan ahead.

[Alkaloid]

Tarqin and Malaq aren't going to hit the trap at the same time as the linear guild. Tarquin 'allowed' Nale to go after the order because he wants to weaken the order further and thinks it will get Nale killed by the son he actually likes. He's probably right. Malaq is staying out because he knows what Tarquins up to and is keeping his final promise to Durkon, and if I recall he's keeping Durkon out as well, but allowing him to send a summoned minion to help.

Belkar surely wouldn't be fantasizing about dying- but Roy would, and that gets woven into his "happy ending." Belkar's happy ending probably consists of him getting a mountain of "sexy shoeless god of war" stuff and whatnot.

Especially seeing I don't see Roy or Haley even bothering to bury him.

I'm going to argue with you there. On some level the order are friends. Belkar is an evil little shit, but Roy doesn't hate him, he feels responsible for him and what he does. Roys happy ending isn't a dead Gelkar, it's a reformed Belkar.