Heroes Chapter 22 "Landslide"

[Mad]

You guys are all taking future Hiro at his word that he stabbed Sylar, but it wasn't enough.

I'm kind of inclined to think he stabbed Peter without realizing it, but since Peter could regenerate, it didn't stop the bomb and Hiro bamfed out before he realized who he had actually stabbed. That was the first impression I got from watching "Five Years Gone."

Peter didn't have regeneration in the original timeline: Sylar killed her before Peter would have had any reason to save her.

[McC]

Peter didn't have regeneration in the original timeline: Sylar killed her before Peter would have had any reason to save her.

That's the original timeline. I'm referring to the "Five Years Gone" timeline that we witnessed. Hiro still tried to "stop Sylar" (unless we're meant to think future-Hiro didn't "stop Sylar" in 5YG), but failed because Sylar was in fact Peter, and Peter had Claire's regeneration power.

Unless, of course, future Hiro simply continued to remember the original timeline, despite the changes in effect during 5YG. But the impression I got was that he had been "back" long enough, and had re-learned what had happened when present-Hiro showed up, that he wouldn't make this kind of mistake.

[Mad]

That's the original timeline. I'm referring to the "Five Years Gone" timeline that we witnessed. Hiro still tried to "stop Sylar" (unless we're meant to think future-Hiro didn't "stop Sylar" in 5YG), but failed because Sylar was in fact Peter, and Peter had Claire's regeneration power.

Unless, of course, future Hiro simply continued to remember the original timeline, despite the changes in effect during 5YG. But the impression I got was that he had been "back" long enough, and had re-learned what had happened when present-Hiro showed up, that he wouldn't make this kind of mistake.

I didn't get that impression at all. Future Hiro, for example, never remembered visiting the future even though his present self was there. He didn't remember anything about the new timeline. He could only remember the old timeline, where Sylar had regeneration and Peter didn't. The only reason he could tell what was going on was because things didn't change enough.

[avatarxprime]

Well keep in mind a few things. Peter is empathetic, he naturally just copies the powers of those around, but he needs to know those powers exist to utilize them. What's more is that he also needs to learn how those powers work, just as if he was born with them.

Unless he's in range of another person with powers, in which case those powers can sometimes spontaneously manifest. (Claire, Ted, Claude.)

Once Peter sees Sylar use a power, though, he knows he can use the same power. Peter might have more difficulty that power than Sylar, of course.

That's just the thing, if someone has a power and Peter is around them he automatically copies it, but there's no control there. Claire's power is always on, so when Peter copied it he regenerated. Ted's power is controllable but seems heavily influenced by emotion. Peter was excited when everything was going and and didn't gain control until he started calming down. Parkman's powers seemed to activate mainly because Matt was trying to scan Peter's head.

Sylar on the other hand is analytical, he opens up your head and studies your power. Once he copies it he becomes fully proficient, albeit there is still an adjustment period, however short, as evidenced when he killed the girl with super hearing. That's Sylar's one true advantage over Peter.

That's true, Sylar seems to gain proficiency very quickly due to knowing how the powers work. He still has to get used to the power, but he already knows the general capabilities and limits.

Also, it's worth pointing out that the first time Peter tried to call on multiple powers he nearly overloaded and had to be knocked out by Claude to keep from exploding. Maybe trying to copy all of Future Sylar's powers and use them would be too much for even Future Peter and threaten to overload him again.

I don't think Peter was in danger of exploding. He was calling up a bunch of powers, and maybe precog or something else freaked him out. Neither he nor Claude knew of Ted then, though, so they tried to attribute the cause to something they already knew.

Peter had the same effect going on as when he copied Ted's power and as when he had the dream where he exploded when he was trying to access the powers he's copied. It's within reason to go with Peter was in danger of blowing up. That could very well be a limit to his power, he can only try and access so many at the same time. Peter was trying to access everything he had in that scene (Claire's regeneration, Nathan's flying, Claude's invisibility, Parkman's telepathy, Whoever it is that gives him prophetic dreams, Hiro's time/space manipulation, Issac's future sight, and everything Sylar has access to) whether he knew it or not (which puts the bare minimum at trying to access 10 powers (counting Sylar's current known at the time abilities of TK, perfect memory, and freezing) at the same time. Of course, nothing seems to stop him from accessing multiple powers in succession while keeping the previous ones up and running.

Current Peter has all of Sylar's powers, but he doesn't know about them so he can't really call them up and use them. Also, in the "Five Years Gone" story, Sylar indicates that he has become powerful enough that he doesn't need to take on anyone elses abilities anymore. Who knows what bag of tricks Future Sylar has?

Again, though, once Sylar uses the power Peter can copy it. And he does pretty well with copying powers when in the vicinity of their owner. Future Peter copied speed and lightning abilities in the heat of battle when attacked by people using those powers for the first time in one of the online comics.

Super speed and spewing out lightning is different from say illusion. Peter probably had a fair degree of control on the speed right off the bat from copying it, but I doubt he would be able to fly like lightning man from the get go, he would probably need time to learn how to do that first, but would be able to shoot out the lightning easily enough. Keep in mind, when he initially copies a power he seems to use it reactively. It just comes to the surface, but there's no real control there. It's highly possible that if Sylar used enough of his powers at the same time (an ability he really should have) he could overload Peter enough to take him down.

This doesn't really mean anything. Sylar is a lunatic motivated by a desire to be special - now he's 'the leader of the free world' the 'most special person there is'. Why would he want more powers? He wasn't out to become the full-set superman guy, just to take 'specialness' from people who 'didn't deserve it'. Now he feels special enough (being President and all does that), and just wants to 'eliminate the competition'.

TK, flying and illusion have clearly allowed him to do whatever he wants.

That's just the thing though, Future Hiro put Candace (illusion) and D.L. (phasing) into hiding via Bennet. Sylar has been hunting people down for their powers up to when he finally kills Nathan and assumes his identity and maybe after that. Who knows what else he acquired between where the show is now and when he kills Nathan?

[avatarxprime]

That's the original timeline. I'm referring to the "Five Years Gone" timeline that we witnessed. Hiro still tried to "stop Sylar" (unless we're meant to think future-Hiro didn't "stop Sylar" in 5YG), but failed because Sylar was in fact Peter, and Peter had Claire's regeneration power.

Unless, of course, future Hiro simply continued to remember the original timeline, despite the changes in effect during 5YG. But the impression I got was that he had been "back" long enough, and had re-learned what had happened when present-Hiro showed up, that he wouldn't make this kind of mistake.

I didn't get that impression at all. Future Hiro, for example, never remembered visiting the future even though his present self was there. He didn't remember anything about the new timeline. He could only remember the old timeline, where Sylar had regeneration and Peter didn't. The only reason he could tell what was going on was because things didn't change enough.

The biggest thing is that Future Hiro didn't know that Claire had been saved, that's clear evidence that he has the memories of the old timeline. Current Hiro knows that Peter came to Texas and saved Claire.

[Ted C]

That's the original timeline. I'm referring to the "Five Years Gone" timeline that we witnessed. Hiro still tried to "stop Sylar" (unless we're meant to think future-Hiro didn't "stop Sylar" in 5YG), but failed because Sylar was in fact Peter, and Peter had Claire's regeneration power.

Unless, of course, future Hiro simply continued to remember the original timeline, despite the changes in effect during 5YG. But the impression I got was that he had been "back" long enough, and had re-learned what had happened when present-Hiro showed up, that he wouldn't make this kind of mistake.

In "Timeline 2" (what we see in 5YG), Peter saved Claire, but -- due to some vagary in Hiro's time jumping -- Present Hiro had not stabbed Sylar. Hiro had to go back in time to do that to keep Sylar from causing the explosion.

Of course, we also know from 5YG that Peter was the cause of the explosion in that timeline (or at least he believed he was). What it gets down to is that Hiro has to somehow keep either of them from exploding.

What's not clear is just what Isaac foresaw and what message action he took to prevent the explosion. It may involve the last issue of 9th Wonders, or it may be hidden in his sketchbook. So far, Isaac's last message is unclear.

[Stark]

In 5YG-time, the explosion wasn't Sylar. Future Hiro only remembers *his* past, ie, the past when it was Sylar, so he assumes it was STILL Sylar. It isn't, it's Peter, so present-Hiro can kill Sylar all he wants, New York is still toast.

Hiro has to stop BOTH people with nuclear powers, but he doesn't even know one of them is a threat. It's *awesome* that Future Hiro didn't know about the 5YG Peter coverup: he was in that timeline for a few hours and Peter never mentioned that it was him - ironic, since he knows Hiro is trying to 'stop Sylar'. He could have said 'er, you know, Sylar didn't destroy New York, try stopping me k?'

[avatarxprime]

In 5YG-time, the explosion wasn't Sylar. Future Hiro only remembers *his* past, ie, the past when it was Sylar, so he assumes it was STILL Sylar. It isn't, it's Peter, so present-Hiro can kill Sylar all he wants, New York is still toast.

Hiro has to stop BOTH people with nuclear powers, but he doesn't even know one of them is a threat. It's *awesome* that Future Hiro didn't know about the 5YG Peter coverup: he was in that timeline for a few hours and Peter never mentioned that it was him - ironic, since he knows Hiro is trying to 'stop Sylar'. He could have said 'er, you know, Sylar didn't destroy New York, try stopping me k?'

Well, we don't know everything. Maybe Peter's thinking is that "I only blow to stop Sylar so if Hiro stops him first I don't blow up and everything will be OK." From the teasers we see it looks like Peter will blow in an effort to stop Sylar. But you're right, Peter really should say something. Either that or since he has the memories he should have based on the alternated timeline (which Future Hiro does not) he thinks Future Hiro already knows what he's doing.

[Stark]

Well, we don't know everything. Maybe Peter's thinking is that "I only blow to stop Sylar so if Hiro stops him first I don't blow up and everything will be OK." From the teasers we see it looks like Peter will blow in an effort to stop Sylar.

Why do you say that?

But you're right, Peter really should say something. Either that or since he has the memories he should have based on the alternated timeline (which Future Hiro does not) he thinks Future Hiro already knows what he's doing.

I wonder what happened to 5YG's original Hiro? If there's Future Hiro going forward into a new future and Past Hiro going forward into the same future, surely there'd be regular old 5YG Hiro floating around?

[Mad]

Peter had the same effect going on as when he copied Ted's power and as when he had the dream where he exploded when he was trying to access the powers he's copied. It's within reason to go with Peter was in danger of blowing up. That could very well be a limit to his power, he can only try and access so many at the same time. Peter was trying to access everything he had in that scene (Claire's regeneration, Nathan's flying, Claude's invisibility, Parkman's telepathy, Whoever it is that gives him prophetic dreams, Hiro's time/space manipulation, Issac's future sight, and everything Sylar has access to) whether he knew it or not (which puts the bare minimum at trying to access 10 powers (counting Sylar's current known at the time abilities of TK, perfect memory, and freezing) at the same time. Of course, nothing seems to stop him from accessing multiple powers in succession while keeping the previous ones up and running.

No, watch the scene again. The only physical change Peter went through was his eyes turning white. Peter saw his visions again (and we saw flashes of the vision), but that was in his mind. There is absolutely no reason to assume that he could explode from an overload of general powers.

Super speed and spewing out lightning is different from say illusion. Peter probably had a fair degree of control on the speed right off the bat from copying it, but I doubt he would be able to fly like lightning man from the get go, he would probably need time to learn how to do that first, but would be able to shoot out the lightning easily enough.

Why would super speed necessarily be easy to control? Why would illusion necessarily be harder to control? We don't know how the powers work.

In a conflict between Future Peter and Future Sylar, a supposed ace up Sylar's sleeve wouldn't necessarily be something difficult for Peter to control.

Keep in mind that Peter should have gained Sylar's enhanced hearing. Thus far, Peter hasn't had problems with hearing too much even when near Sylar (which is when powers typically spontaneously manifest).

[Ted C]

In 5YG-time, the explosion wasn't Sylar. Future Hiro only remembers *his* past, ie, the past when it was Sylar, so he assumes it was STILL Sylar. It isn't, it's Peter, so present-Hiro can kill Sylar all he wants, New York is still toast.

Future Hiro remembers what was reported, that Sylar was the bomb. Nathan had covered up the fact that Peter was the cause of the explosion. It's entirely possible, actually, that Sylar was never the bomb in ANY timeline (although he has indicated his willingness to do it if not stopped).