"Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

[Steve]

BTW: I was totally enjoying the sex scene. Butcher has a gift for Romance Novel Sex. The ending, well, yeah, I was also with Dresden in shouting "Dammit!!!"

He might've had his wife's help, a lot of her novel covers give me "romance novel" vibes even if they're supposed to be fantasy, I think.

[Ralin]

BTW: I was totally enjoying the sex scene. Butcher has a gift for Romance Novel Sex. The ending, well, yeah, I was also with Dresden in shouting "Dammit!!!"

He might've had his wife's help, a lot of her novel covers give me "romance novel" vibes even if they're supposed to be fantasy, I think.

Isn't she specifically known as a paranormal romance writer?

Which is a pretty well-paying field as fiction writing goes, so I wouldn't be surprised if she was the main breadwinner before the Dresden Files really took off.

He didn't expect Lasciel, but she was supposed to be locked up by the Church.

I don't think Harry even pretends to think the Church can keep any of those things behind lock and key anymore

[Terralthra]

BTW: I was totally enjoying the sex scene. Butcher has a gift for Romance Novel Sex. The ending, well, yeah, I was also with Dresden in shouting "Dammit!!!"

He might've had his wife's help, a lot of her novel covers give me "romance novel" vibes even if they're supposed to be fantasy, I think.

Isn't she specifically known as a paranormal romance writer?

Which is a pretty well-paying field as fiction writing goes, so I wouldn't be surprised if she was the main breadwinner before the Dresden Files really took off.

Her first book was picked up for publishing in 2006, and the Dresden Files took off a few years before that. So, no, not really.

[Ralin]

Ah. Oh well.

[LadyTevar]

BTW: I was totally enjoying the sex scene. Butcher has a gift for Romance Novel Sex. The ending, well, yeah, I was also with Dresden in shouting "Dammit!!!"

He might've had his wife's help, a lot of her novel covers give me "romance novel" vibes even if they're supposed to be fantasy, I think.

Who is his wife?

[Steve]

Shannon K. Butcher.

[Broomstick]

It is unlikely that Mrs. Butcher didn't start writing until a year or two before being published. A more typical scenario is for someone to write for a decade or more before getting that first novel published. She might well have been writing for years prior to that, long enough that her writing of hot sex scenes might have influenced her husband's writing of hot sex scenes. Or she might have been providing feedback on his writing as a sort of beta-reader.

[Majin Gojira]

BTW: Anyone else think Genoskwa was kicked out of the Forest People? I guess they have criminals just like all other species. He truly did have a beef with River Shoulders, so that might be who banished him.

I thought he might be a Yeti. They are more predatory and more aggressive from what folklore ascribes to Sasquatch.

[Ralin]

I've read stories of Sasquatch that eat meat, or seemed to eat meat. Been awhile though. Yeti/Sasquatch-type creature stories do seem to pop up in a lot of places.

Personally my thought was some kind of wendigo. Possibly a sasquatch wendigo.

[LadyTevar]

I've read stories of Sasquatch that eat meat, or seemed to eat meat. Been awhile though. Yeti/Sasquatch-type creature stories do seem to pop up in a lot of places.

Personally my thought was some kind of wendigo. Possibly a sasquatch wendigo.

Yeti and Wendigo are possible, but the way Genoskwa reacted to being called "Forest People" and his over-reaction to "River Shoulders" implied he knew them, he had a History with them, and it was very very PERSONAL. So, this implies he was once Forest People, and he did something to get himself banished.

[Ralin]

Indeed. Thus the "Sasquatch wendigo" bit.

Some type or group of creatures related to but bitter enemies of the Forest is a possibility too. Though I'm also leaning towards corrupted Forest People.

[Scrib]

It is unlikely that Mrs. Butcher didn't start writing until a year or two before being published. A more typical scenario is for someone to write for a decade or more before getting that first novel published. She might well have been writing for years prior to that, long enough that her writing of hot sex scenes might have influenced her husband's writing of hot sex scenes. Or she might have been providing feedback on his writing as a sort of beta-reader.

So that's who we blame for the contrived scenes with yet another hot woman that wants to bone Harry?

Because "we need to undress together while you control your incredibly powerful supernatural urges with sheer willpower" seems like the sort of cliche I would expect from one of those romantic vampire novels.

[Terralthra]

It is unlikely that Mrs. Butcher didn't start writing until a year or two before being published. A more typical scenario is for someone to write for a decade or more before getting that first novel published. She might well have been writing for years prior to that, long enough that her writing of hot sex scenes might have influenced her husband's writing of hot sex scenes. Or she might have been providing feedback on his writing as a sort of beta-reader.

So that's who we blame for the contrived scenes with yet another hot woman that wants to bone Harry?

Because "we need to undress together while you control your incredibly powerful supernatural urges with sheer willpower" seems like the sort of cliche I would expect from one of those romantic vampire novels.

I interpreted that as Lashiel exerting influence deliberately to try to tempt Harry in any way she could without giving the game away.

[Ralin]

So, why the hell did master manipulator Lasciel reveal herself instead of having Hannah fake change sides so she could sidle up beside Harry and stab a knife in his ribs?

[Scrib]

So that's who we blame for the contrived scenes with yet another hot woman that wants to bone Harry?

Because "we need to undress together while you control your incredibly powerful supernatural urges with sheer willpower" seems like the sort of cliche I would expect from one of those romantic vampire novels.

I interpreted that as Lashiel exerting influence deliberately to try to tempt Harry in any way she could without giving the game away.[/quote]
Oh, to be fair, it's explainable. It always is,with Butcher since his world is stacked with creatures that have no problems using sex as a tool. I was just pointing out how it fit that mold.

There's really no other way for this to happen?

But a more important question is: if Harry's subconscious sent him the dream with Murphy...how the fuck did it know about Lasciel then? If Lasciel sent him the dream...what the fuck is wrong with Lasciel?

The only thing I can think of is Harry thinking of Lasciel because he was going up against Fallen, but why her specifically? [akon]She's locked uppppp, they won't let her out [/akon]. What would his subconscious want him to remember?

So, why the hell did master manipulator Lasciel reveal herself instead of having Hannah fake change sides so she could sidle up beside Harry and stab a knife in his ribs?

Because contrivance.

A second reason: Hannah wouldn't let her, the hosts can be stupid although it seems as if the symbiotic relationship certain hosts (like Nicodemus) might not always be the case. Lasciel might have been able to get her to do it anyways.

[PKRudeBoy]

His subconscious spent a whole lot of time with Lash, almost certainly more time then he did consciously, and may have picked up some tells from Hannah that gave off a Lasciel vibe. If, say, her body language was similar to his interactions with Lash, that's probably not something Harry would consciously pick up on, but his subconscious might.

[Scrib]

The same Lasciel that knows Harry well enough to pull a Laplace's Demon on him and take away his free will can't just act like Hannah even though Hannah is the host and in control when she doesn't turn?

[Broomstick]

What, Harry's statement about women coming on to him too strong then attempting to eat him alive can't be a real factor here?

[Scrib]

What, Harry's statement about women coming on to him too strong then attempting to eat him alive can't be a real factor here?

I don't see how that's relevant to what I said? Harry having hang ups is something else. Harry immediately jumping straight to Lash, to the point where his subconscious knows that it's Lasciel is strange. It's not like it needs to warn him about fucking people on the job (or Denarians): it itself admits that Harry is a repressed bastard

[dragon]

of the five items we know for sure what two of them are, shroud and cup but what are the other three supposed to be.
Also Nick said the his daughter that the enemy wont find her there when he killed her who is this enemy?

[NeoGoomba]

Also Nick said the his daughter that the enemy wont find her there when he killed her who is this enemy?

Could be the Outsiders (aka Scott Hall and Keven Nash), or could just be good ol' Yaweh.

[SCRawl]

of the five items we know for sure what two of them are, shroud and cup but what are the other three supposed to be.
Also Nick said the his daughter that the enemy wont find her there when he killed her who is this enemy?

Another was a thorned crown, so that ought to ring some bells. The other two I don't know about.

[Broomstick]

of the five items we know for sure what two of them are, shroud and cup but what are the other three supposed to be.

Cup/holy grail
Crown of thorns
Shroud of Turin
The wooden plaque with INRI on it
Possibly the tip of the spear poked into Jesus' side

Also Nick said the his daughter that the enemy wont find her there when he killed her who is this enemy?

The Christian god, the baby Jesus, etc. Of course, as noted by Harry, by dying where she did she's under the tender mercies of Hades. I don't see how that's better.

[SCRawl]

of the five items we know for sure what two of them are, shroud and cup but what are the other three supposed to be.

Cup/holy grail
Crown of thorns
Shroud of Turin
The wooden plaque with INRI on it
Possibly the tip of the spear poked into Jesus' side

I don't recall any text on the placard being mentioned. It seems to make sense, given the other items (and the fact that the nails are already spoken for).

Also Nick said the his daughter that the enemy wont find her there when he killed her who is this enemy?

The Christian god, the baby Jesus, etc. Of course, as noted by Harry, by dying where she did she's under the tender mercies of Hades. I don't see how that's better.

From their interview, Hades seemed to give Dresden the impression that her shade wouldn't be too terribly mistreated. If Deirdre was to go the other way, i.e. to the biblical depictions of Hell -- and really, given their antics in life, can you really imagine the Denarians going any other way? -- I have to believe that things would have been worse.

[Broomstick]

I read it as Hades was going to make sure she was suitably punished for her actions in life, hence the references to things like Sisyphus and his endless boulder-rolling. She's not going to escaped justice.