Warcraft discussion thread (spoilers)

[libertyjim]

I enjoyed the film. Think it deserves a 7/10 or in that kind of ballpark. When I saw all the critics slamming the film I felt it was just such an injustice.

Warcraft becomes the most successful videogame movie ever.

I hope all those critics that were giving it 0 out of 10 eat shit and die

China monstered this movie into sequel territory. Which I'm happy about, no regrets giving my money to watch this at the cinema.

So this is nice to hear. Looking forward to the sequel hopefully based on Warcraft 3 since they seemed to have merged the first two game stories to some extent. I was thinking that may have been the intention since the third game is generally better known and involves more fan favourite characters.

[TheFeniX]

I was thinking that may have been the intention since the third game is generally better known and involves more fan favourite characters.

And Thrall.

That said, I've read the movie cost around $150mil to make and has pulled in around $400 million, most of that from China. The American audience couldn't support a sequel, only bringing on about $50mil. But I see no reason they'd pass on a sequel when that kind of money is on the table. Chinese audiences are going to continue to be a major focus of Hollywood efforts. At the least, they seem to have much fewer preconceived notions about certain genres, such as Fantasy. Before LotR and (later) Harry Potter: you couldn't get Hollywood to touch a Fantasy franchise seriously. And American audiences still seem adverse to it in general.

[Elheru Aran]

I was thinking that may have been the intention since the third game is generally better known and involves more fan favourite characters.

And Thrall.

That said, I've read the movie cost around $150mil to make and has pulled in around $400 million, most of that from China. The American audience couldn't support a sequel, only bringing on about $50mil. But I see no reason they'd pass on a sequel when that kind of money is on the table. Chinese audiences are going to continue to be a major focus of Hollywood efforts. At the least, they seem to have much fewer preconceived notions about certain genres, such as Fantasy. Before LotR and (later) Harry Potter: you couldn't get Hollywood to touch a Fantasy franchise seriously. And American audiences still seem adverse to it in general.

Notably, LOTR was made by a NZ company (New Line only bankrolled it, it was mostly a labor of love by Peter Jackson IIRC), and Harry Potter started in the UK. I can't think of many fantasy movies that are actually native to the US, made by US companies. Granted there were probably more before globalization really became a thing... I guess Conan might qualify?

[mr friendly guy]

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=warcraft.htm

160 million to make

Domestic: $45,779,925 10.8%
+ Foreign: $376,200,000 89.2%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_h ... s_in_China

Warcraft grossed 1.465 billion yuan in China which translates as 220 million USD, so I think the info in wiki could be a bit out of date, as another $150 USD most have come from other countries. Nevertheless, the Chinese contribution is big.

Another thing to consider is that the company gets a bigger share of ticket sales in China. Normally its split between the cinema and the studio. However when the cinema chain (Dalian Wanda) also owns the studio (Legendary)........ well I think business analyst will call this synergy.

[TheFeniX]

Notably, LOTR was made by a NZ company (New Line only bankrolled it, it was mostly a labor of love by Peter Jackson IIRC), and Harry Potter started in the UK. I can't think of many fantasy movies that are actually native to the US, made by US companies. Granted there were probably more before globalization really became a thing... I guess Conan might qualify?

Still, with LOTR you had Vigo and Orlando and women just get.... warm in their girl parts for them. Liv Tyler didn't exactly turn a lot of men off to it. And, post Mag-fucking-neto McKellen. They didn't exactly slow-roll that movie. I remember just how fucking badass Strider looked compared to his cartoon version. Everything was done "right," down to the wardrobe and set-pieces. And LOTR is like the War and Peace of Fantasy novels (still stupidly hard to read, at least for me) and the grandfather of pretty much every Fantasy cliche out there.

The Balrog scene alone had people, even non-fans, talking for weeks if not months.

Harry Potter was already a giant in books and even then had to fight for a publisher, but mostly because "no long kids books." Also didn't hurt that they seemed to have cast every single recognizable British/European actor that has ever lived.... except the ones that were already kicking ass in the US: Stewart, McKellen, Lee. Probably solely due to two of them already being in large Fantasy franchises and Stewart likely walking over fucking everyone. (Been on a Stewart kick after rewatching First Contact because "I will make them pay.") I can't find my copy of Moby Dick and it's making me angry because I was going to watch it with the wife. She's never seen it and I like to think Picard laughs at the comment in First Contact because "Lady, I AM goddamn Ahab."

Conan played well, I think, because Arnold was basically born to play the part and the level of violence would set the stage for the ultra-violent 80s action-gore fests. They also spent about what the movie cost to make on advertising.

But yea, I still believe the American audience avoids Fantasy (outside of comic books) without some kind of HUGE "all stops pulled" inertia behind it. Lion, Witch, Whatever and it's "loljesus" garbage (not against it in principle, just the idea of swinging it at me like a hammer), but other than that: it's just "nerd shit" to a lot of people. And it's not even that: it's just that you used to be able to make movies that pander to a certain group alone. They still do so today. Those movies have always made money (Conan) and always will (Mad Max), but Hollywood is like "Ew, D&D is for nerds you no life losers!" So, we get a D&D movie made by rounding up people at the Ren Fair and Marlon Wayans because I guess he got bored and was looking for an easy paycheck. Honestly, movie would have made more sense if Wayans had been more of a "Black Knight" man out of time character.

So I'm not just yelling at clouds here: Blizzard has actually been trying to get a Warcraft movie done for years. Pretty much ever since the break-out success of WoW. But they've been fighting an uphill battle for years for numerous reasons. But I say mainly because "Fantasy" + "Video Game" = "Pure Cyanide" to a lot of suits. They may have broken in a lot sooner had they shot for a Starcraft movie or if Warcraft had been a hugely popular book series.

Just to end this rant: I will see the WC movie when it hits video. That said, the idea that the humans are cast actors annoys me because if Jaina shows up... there is only one Jaina and she is voiced by Laura Bailey. Anyone else is a poor imposter.

[libertyjim]

The Balrog scene alone had people, even non-fans, talking for weeks if not months.

That said, the idea that the humans are cast actors annoys me because if Jaina shows up... there is only one Jaina and she is voiced by Laura Bailey. Anyone else is a poor imposter.

(Spoilers for Warcraft 3 and possibly future films)

I hope they really nail the fall of Arthas to the point where it has similar effect on audiences. Unfortunately they are using cast actors and Laura Bailey doesn't seem to have done any or very little non-voice acting but all the same it's not impossible for her to be chosen for the role anyway?

I thought that perhaps the Warcraft 3 storyline could be split into two (Reign of Chaos and Frozen Throne) in the film franchise except with some slight script shifts so that Arthas falls at the end of the first film and becomes the Lich King at the end of the second. Thrall's story can generally be kept the same though I wonder if the two halves of the story might seem quite disconnected (though they do link up somewhat later).

[TheFeniX]

It's going to be rough. You had an entire game(s) to build up Arthas as a character and his downfall, actually controlling him personally at times. And gameplay doesn't take into account the opposing faction as a time concept: campaigns are played till they are done, movies have a time limit.

Tackling the fall of a popular hero is hard to do across even multiple movies. In fact, if you just watch LOTR, the impact of Saruman's betrayal of Gandalf is almost non-existent. I knew a bit about him from The Hobbit, but even then: it registered next to nothing. Even after all the build up to it the the Star Wars prequels, Anakin's final fall left a lot to be desired.

Going to be hard to top this. It was a culmination of a lot of gameplay and time devoted to a character and then you get him running through another popular character from previous games. Man, I wasn't a huge fan of WC3 gameplay, but that game had... style.

Redemption is easy: show a bad guy doing bad things for hours, but make him look like a badass while doing so, then just have some catalyst to turn things around at the last moment. But the fall of a hero like Arthas: showing him coming of age, struggling under the yoke of being in-line to be King, his duties (and taking orders) as a Paladin, and his desperate bid for sweet sweet Frost Mage action. Showing how Mal'Ganis used his pride and hatred against him (real Sith Lord vibe stuff going on).

That shit takes time to build up. You could dedicate two whole movies just to that, which would leave all the ORCSORCSORCS bullshit out in the cold, so..... permission to come aboard sir! I'll sail with you to the gates of Hell if that's your heading! I'd pay money just to see King Chin slap Thralls shit around for being a kill stealing asshole.

Wasn't Go'el the baby at the end of the movie? Still haven't cared to see it. I bet Metzen has been walking around with a half-stock waiting to get the sequel greenlit. Bet he's dieing to voice Thrall, but I so hope it gets passed off. Like, Vin Diesel Thrall. Oh man, I'd actually watch an interview just to see Metzen cry about it.

[Crown]

I can't find the tweet (probably was on /r/wow) but the Chinese studio/theatre that partnered on the movie sent out a tweet reminding their audience that Warcraft's run was coming to an end .. but not to worry because this was just the Beginning!

Xièxiè China!

[mr friendly guy]

I can't find the tweet (probably was on /r/wow) but the Chinese studio/theatre that partnered on the movie sent out a tweet reminding their audience that Warcraft's run was coming to an end .. but not to worry because this was just the Beginning!

Xièxiè China!

1. I think you're referring to Dalian Wanda who owns Legendary pictures and the largest cinema chain in China, actually I think its the largest in the world.
2. I think you also meant to say 谢谢中国

[Crown]

I can't find the tweet (probably was on /r/wow) but the Chinese studio/theatre that partnered on the movie sent out a tweet reminding their audience that Warcraft's run was coming to an end .. but not to worry because this was just the Beginning!

Xièxiè China!

1. I think you're referring to Dalian Wanda who owns Legendary pictures and the largest cinema chain in China, actually I think its the largest in the world.

Yeah that sounds about like what I remember.

2. I think you also meant to say 谢谢中国

[Grumman]

The DVD came out today in Australia, during a DVD sale, so given the choice between $20 for it and WoW or $25 for WoW alone, it was a no-brainer.

Having watched it, it deserved to fail. It was certainly watchable, but it was clearly written as a part of a series rather than as a movie that could be viewed and appreciated in isolation, which is ironically a good way of hurting your chances of getting a sequel. It is a The Empire Strikes Back when the franchise needed an A New Hope to get things rolling first.

[Iroscato]

The DVD came out today in Australia, during a DVD sale, so given the choice between $20 for it and WoW or $25 for WoW alone, it was a no-brainer.

Having watched it, it deserved to fail. It was certainly watchable, but it was clearly written as a part of a series rather than as a movie that could be viewed and appreciated in isolation, which is ironically a good way of hurting your chances of getting a sequel. It is a The Empire Strikes Back when the franchise needed an A New Hope to get things rolling first.

The US is not the world - it was massive in China, and grossed $433 million from a $160 million budget. It's far from a failure, and it's certainly getting a sequel.

[Crazedwraith]

The DVD came out today in Australia, during a DVD sale, so given the choice between $20 for it and WoW or $25 for WoW alone, it was a no-brainer.

Having watched it, it deserved to fail. It was certainly watchable, but it was clearly written as a part of a series rather than as a movie that could be viewed and appreciated in isolation, which is ironically a good way of hurting your chances of getting a sequel. It is a The Empire Strikes Back when the franchise needed an A New Hope to get things rolling first.

The US is not the world - it was massive in China, and grossed $433 million from a $160 million budget. It's far from a failure, and it's certainly getting a sequel.

Not 'certain' certain. Nothing at all's been announced as far as i know.

[Elheru Aran]

Hm. Now I'm curious. Are there any examples of properties being made primarily for consumption in one area, becoming popular enough in another area that *official* sequels are made but mostly only get airtime in the second area?

Like say WoW apparently did very well in China... is it possible that they could make a sequel more or less just for the Chinese market and we might see barely a peep of it here in the States?

[TheFeniX]

Only thing I can think of off-hand is Metroid. The series was always much more popular in the West than in Japan, which was one of the big reasons it was handed off to a bunch of Rednecks (Retro) and allowed to become an FPS, something I don't recall Japanese gamers being big on at that particular time.

[libertyjim]

Hm. Now I'm curious. Are there any examples of properties being made primarily for consumption in one area, becoming popular enough in another area that *official* sequels are made but mostly only get airtime in the second area?

Like say WoW apparently did very well in China... is it possible that they could make a sequel more or less just for the Chinese market and we might see barely a peep of it here in the States?

Well yes there probably are many examples. While it is possible for a sequel to made with the Chinese in mind and it's possible you won't see it in the states much I doubt it. I expect that the creators will essentially continue as they are since they don't apparently need to change anything to keep the popularity in China as the Chinese already like what they're doing. For that matter there's no reason to not make a concerted effort to get the western countries on board for the sequel as well. Also in theory the next film will be based on Warcraft 3 Reign of Chaos and possibly elements of the expansion Frozen Throne which is basically the best part of the IP's story so I'd expect a big push for it everywhere. A lot of pressure to do it well though.

[RogueIce]

Also in theory the next film will be based on Warcraft 3 Reign of Chaos and possibly elements of the expansion Frozen Throne which is basically the best part of the IP's story so I'd expect a big push for it everywhere. A lot of pressure to do it well though.

Given Thrall was just born toward the end of this movie, that would be a pretty big time skip.

[libertyjim]

Given Thrall was just born toward the end of this movie, that would be a pretty big time skip.

True but that sort of time skip has been done before. There is a lot of details that could be developed so that people would be more prepared for the Warcraft 3 storyline but I doubt we'll get more than we already have unless they decide to do an intermediate film which I also doubt they'll do.

[Lord Revan]

well in the games Warcraft 2 and Warcraft 3 had a 20 year timeskip with no official game between them (as Warcraft Adventures was never officially released), so it's not like it would the first time that Warcraft had a large timeskip.

[RogueIce]

Given Thrall was just born toward the end of this movie, that would be a pretty big time skip.

True but that sort of time skip has been done before. There is a lot of details that could be developed so that people would be more prepared for the Warcraft 3 storyline but I doubt we'll get more than we already have unless they decide to do an intermediate film which I also doubt they'll do.

well in the games Warcraft 2 and Warcraft 3 had a 20 year timeskip with no official game between them (as Warcraft Adventures was never officially released), so it's not like it would the first time that Warcraft had a large timeskip.

While Revan has a point, the main thing between War2 and War3 is that the Second War was over during that timeframe. For the movies, the Human (now Alliance) vs. Orc War is still pretty much going.

It wouldn't be an Intermediate movie, more like basically retelling the second game where there's a full Alliance instead of just a single Human Kingdom. Whether or not the Orcs can pick up the Trolls, Ogres and Goblins will remain to be seen, but there is still very much a movie to be had between the ending of this one and a theoretical Warcraft 3 adaption.

[Lord Revan]

wait what?! Warcraft 2 always had the full Alliance in fact much of the timeskip between War1 and War2 was to build said alliance, with all of the human kingdoms, plus the elves of Quel'thalas and the Wildhammer and Bronzebeard dwarves (and technically the gnomes) joining the roster in Warcraft 2.

While Lordaeron play a major role, you had Stormwind remnant (called Azeroth remnant but I used the modern name), Dalaran, Gilneas, Stormgarde, Kul Tiras and Alterac as members of the alliance and that's just the humans.

[RogueIce]

wait what?! Warcraft 2 always had the full Alliance in fact much of the timeskip between War1 and War2 was to build said alliance, with all of the human kingdoms, plus the elves of Quel'thalas and the Wildhammer and Bronzebeard dwarves (and technically the gnomes) joining the roster in Warcraft 2.

While Lordaeron play a major role, you had Stormwind remnant (called Azeroth remnant but I used the modern name), Dalaran, Gilneas, Stormgarde, Kul Tiras and Alterac as members of the alliance and that's just the humans.

I know that, Warcraft 2 is my favorite game. I just worded it poorly.

"A Single Human Kingdom" was supposed to be in reference to this movie (and the First War of the games) rather than the Second War and War2. Sorry about that. Alas, the edit window has already passed so I can't fix it.

[Lord Revan]

wait what?! Warcraft 2 always had the full Alliance in fact much of the timeskip between War1 and War2 was to build said alliance, with all of the human kingdoms, plus the elves of Quel'thalas and the Wildhammer and Bronzebeard dwarves (and technically the gnomes) joining the roster in Warcraft 2.

While Lordaeron play a major role, you had Stormwind remnant (called Azeroth remnant but I used the modern name), Dalaran, Gilneas, Stormgarde, Kul Tiras and Alterac as members of the alliance and that's just the humans.

I know that, Warcraft 2 is my favorite game. I just worded it poorly.

"A Single Human Kingdom" was supposed to be in reference to this movie (and the First War of the games) rather than the Second War and War2. Sorry about that. Alas, the edit window has already passed so I can't fix it.

no problem