paladins

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2003-08-04 03:36pm

I wouldn't run games with stereotypical archetypes for characters in the first place, and I don't.

Post by **Steve** » 2003-08-04 08:43pm

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:If I ever ran a D&D campaign, I'd mandate that Paladins can't be good. Real life crusaders slaughtered men and children and raped women wholesale for daring to follow a different religion than themselves. Holding these people up to be "Lawful Good" has always disturbed me.

Do you need someone to pull that stick out of your ass?

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2003-08-04 08:57pm

What's with all the hostility? I just have a preference against campaigns that feature black and white morality.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-08-04 09:03pm

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:What's with all the hostility? I just have a preference against campaigns that feature black and white morality.

Many people would think that automatically casting all holy warriors as evil would be very black and white morality.

Post by **Steve** » 2003-08-04 09:11pm

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:What's with all the hostility? I just have a preference against campaigns that feature black and white morality.

The attitude about the Paladin class seemed more than that, and tonight I'm on a short fuse.

Besides, this is fantasy. What's wrong with white and black morality?

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-08-04 09:20pm

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:If I ever ran a D&D campaign, I'd mandate that Paladins can't be good. Real life crusaders slaughtered men and children and raped women wholesale for daring to follow a different religion than themselves. Holding these people up to be "Lawful Good" has always disturbed me.

Virtually all Crusaders were Warriors or Fighters, with a smattering of Fighter/Clerics. Paladins are people like Joan of Arc or Sir Launcelot du Lac.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2003-08-04 09:33pm

SirNirtram wrote:Many people would think that automatically casting all holy warriors as evil would be very black and white morality.

How can wholesale murder because of religious differences not be evil?

Steve wrote:The attitude about the Paladin class seemed more than that, and tonight I'm on a short fuse.

Besides, this is fantasy. What's wrong with white and black morality?

Nothing. It's just not my bag.

Iceberg wrote:Virtually all Crusaders were Warriors or Fighters, with a smattering of Fighter/Clerics. Paladins are people like Joan of Arc or Sir Launcelot du Lac.

I have no idea what you're talking about. How can any real life person be a "Fighter/Cleric"?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-08-04 09:35pm

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:
SirNirtram wrote:Many people would think that automatically casting all holy warriors as evil would be very black and white morality.
How can wholesale murder because of religious differences not be evil?

It's always evil. But Paladins, being a fantastical creation of other worlds where religions don't normally advocate the destruction of all nonbelievers, tend not to do that. Those that do perform such acts don't remain Paladins.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-08-04 10:12pm

paladins seem based on the knights of the round table. the stereotypical honorable fighters.

I, personally, would want to play a bloodthirsty paladin. evil must be scourged. . .

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-08-04 10:26pm

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:
Iceberg wrote:Virtually all Crusaders were Warriors or Fighters, with a smattering of Fighter/Clerics. Paladins are people like Joan of Arc or Sir Launcelot du Lac.
I have no idea what you're talking about. How can any real life person be a "Fighter/Cleric"?

Two words: Knights Templar.

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2003-08-04 11:12pm

How can wholesale murder because of religious differences not be evil?

If you are talking about D&D then have a idea, they do not kill because religious difference. They kill because that religion is evil. Shar's followers are not just going to sit there and watch over. They profess, they defend,they represent evil. it was not a mistaken of interpretation. (And even so, Paladins going to attack any shar cleric or temple will be doing wrong, because He will listen and found out if they do not profess something else and that would be a chaotic act) In D&D arcehtypes like Evil/Good and Law/Chaos are not just phylosophical differences. They are real. They have nothing to do with our world "evil" which is carried with politic, moral, cultural, etc,etc influence.
You feel evil, Evil can hurt you, You can hurt evil more. Fantasy.
Paladins are Holy Warriors that go to make the law and good happens. That is all. Superman like dudes.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-08-04 11:19pm

Iceberg wrote:Paladins are people like Joan of Arc or Sir Launcelot du Lac.

Lancelot wasn't such a great guy, himself. Doesn't the D&D Paladin stress humility?

Besides, Lancelot had a hot, steaming affair with the boss's wife, and then attacked his best friend's castle, killing some of his friends, in order to save her from the "justice" of the day.

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2003-08-04 11:37pm

heh
it would be more what Lacenlot wanted to be rather that what he turned to be...the best steryotipe character to represent a Paladin way of aciton is in my opinion Superman - All Good, All Lawful, All respectful, All caring,etc, etc...

Drach · Post by **Drach** » 2003-08-05 05:01am

I've always liked EQ's 'roleplay side' What there is of it anyways

Paladins are holy warriors who use blessed spells and strength of arms to fight the evil and undead of Norrath. Paladins are primarily a melee class, able to wear plate armor and wield many kinds of weapons.

Paladins are able fighters and battlefield healers whose combat spells focus on stunning enemies and smiting undead. They also have several spells that increase the health and armor of their allies. Every so often, paladins can lay hands on themselves or their friends to instantly grant a powerful heal.

Paladins are the greatest force against undead. At higher levels they gain special abilities to smite these foes. Paladins also gain a limited ability to resurrect their fallen friends with lessened penalties for death.

Paladins can sometimes work alone, healing themselves with magic, but in a group a paladin really shines, going head to head with his enemies and occasionally falling back to heal. Players who like to engage in melee fights but want the options spells provide will find paladins a great class to play.

On the other hand, I've always wanted to play the anti-paladin type, or modeled after EverQuest's shadow knight. Unfortunatly I have yet to find a GM that allows out and out evil characters

Shadowknights are unholy warriors who use fear, pain and disease to attack all that is good in the world. Shadowknights are primarily a melee class, able to wear plate armor and wield many kinds of weapons.

Shadowknights are deadly opponents who use evil spells to slow and cripple their enemies. They steal the strength and life from their victims, using this stolen power to strengthen themselves and their allies. When needed, shadowknights use their powerful harm touch ability to greatly damage their opponents.

Shadowknights can feign the appearance of death, fooling enemies into ignoring them. Combined with spells that degrade an enemy's ability to fight, a shadowknight becomes a fearsome foe.

Shadowknights can use their dark powers to adventure solo for a time. The shadowknight's lethal abilities are best used, however, with the support of a larger group. Players who like offensive melee fights but want a variety of ways to inflict harm on their opponents will enjoy playing a shadowknight.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-08-05 06:03am

Would Aya Brae from Parasite Eve be considered a modern fantasy paladin?

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-08-05 09:31am

SirNitram wrote:But Paladins, being a fantastical creation of other worlds where religions don't normally advocate the destruction of all nonbelievers, tend not to do that. Those that do perform such acts don't remain Paladins.

Not to go off topic, but wasn't all religions more or less tolerated in the Roman Empire unless they were a threat to peace?? (I definately recall reading that Roman citizens of Persian ethnicity worshipped Mitra, and that those of Egyptian ethnicity worshipped Isis and Osiris, and so on...)

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-08-05 10:11am

The Yosemite Bear wrote:Would Aya Brae from Parasite Eve be considered a modern fantasy paladin?

That would be a little odd.

I just viewed her more as a person who was granted an extraoridianry ability but given the context of the game(and what Mitochondria are in the game) in some odd way possibly...that or a cleric.