My Little Pony

[Serafina]

Depends on your definition of goddess.
It's pretty certain that they did not create the world or the ponies. But they have lived for millenia (far longer than other ponies) and have very significant magical powers. That puts them very close to goddess-status, and it's quite possible that they have more powers than they have displayed so far.

[evilsoup]

I've been calling them goddesses, because raising the sun and the moon is many orders of magnitude more powerful than anything anypony else has managed to perform... except the latest episode states that the unicorns used to have those duties, long ago - and even if it took a few thousand unicorns working in concert, that puts Celestia's and Luna's power within sight of the mortal unicorns, even if they are still immensely powerful. And then you have Discord; who is to Celestia what she is to (say) TG&PT.

However, I tend to describe Celestia as the God-Princess of Ponykind. My head-canon is that they were supremely powerful unicorns who managed to magic themselves wings and immortality... but of course, that doesn't really help. They're (possibly) introducing a third winged unicorn in the third series, so maybe that episode will give us a definitive answer...

My main point with the 'prejudice' angle is that I take it as evidence for Canterlot, Cloudsdale and Aaaaappleousia being exceptions rather than the rule: most pony communities are more integrated, like Ponyville.

[lordofchange13]

As there use to be royalty in the unicorn type from rarity's character, is prince blue-blood there despondent? We finally know why that ass of a pony exists.

EDIT: I see someone else has already said this.

[Rossum]

Wait a second... Wild Mass Guessing time!

Look at the flag of the Earth Ponies, at first glance it looks kind of like a four-seasons motif until you notice that it only has two seasons! Namely, spring and summer.

Now, lets suppose that the ponies are using a feudal system with the Earth Ponies basically doing all the farming and the other two lording it over them. The Pegasai are the "stewards of the weather" (I don't know if there is really some divine being that declared the pegasai to have that responsibility but it fits) and the unicorns can move the sun around (or something else weather related). Both the pegasai and unicorns started out demanding food from the Earth ponies in an amount sustainable by the regular four seasosns, then the two magical races demanded more food because they could.

The Earth ponies then said "Hey, we're doing our best here but its hard to produce that much food when you guys keep making droughts and storms and making it snow in the winter time. You control the weather, make it good weather for farming and we'll get right on it."

So, the two magical races rearranged the seasons so that it was always good for farming. The earth ponies at first thought it was cool because now they didn't have to worry about freezing or storing food for the winter, but the other pony races just demanded more food (for huge feasts or possibly selling to other races). The earth ponies were overworked and the natural cycle of the seasons was disrupted.


Enter the windigos.

Lets say that the windigos aren't so much malicious as they are primordial spirits of winter. They ride across the globe, spreading snow and making sure the animals and plants all hibernate for the winter so that new life can begin in spring. Having a time of winter rest could be their worlds way of handling things like disharmony and discord and such... as long as their is one season at the end of the year where every creature shuts the hell up and stops fighting (peace on earth and all that) then tensions won't build up to the point where chaos gods start getting involved.

So, the windigos are doing their thing when they sense a disturbance in the force and see that the pony races have put the change of seasons on hold to keep growing food. The windigos didn't like that and decided to override the powers of the pegasai and unicorns by creating a blizzard to cover the land in winter. Due to the inherent difficulty of communicating between primordial winter spirits and technicolor feudal ponies, the ponies didn't know about this and started blaming each other. Since they had thought they could grow food the whole year round, there might not have been much food stored up for the winter and fighting broke out. The windigos see their job as "bring winter until the flora and fauna stop fighting and hibernate" so the more the ponies fought then the harder the windigoes blew snow at them to get them to stop fighting and either stay put for the winter or just die (which is basically the "stay put" thing but more permanant and non negotiable).

The ponies had their meeting, didn't fix anything, and all decided to leave. Its likely that some ponies remained but they probably tightened their belts and tried to wait out the winter while all the active ones went searching for a new land. When the windigos sensed the fighting had stopped, they considered their job done and moved on to the next land.

Then, the ponies found themselves in Equestria, settled down, and met eachother just before the windigos showed up to spread winter to Equestria. The ponies hid in the cave (which the windigos probably didn't mind since that's what they figure animals are supposed to do) but when the leaders started fighting then the windigos froze them to make them stop (note that the freezing was non-lethal and the leaders thawed out just fine even after the underlings bonded over the night... unless there was embellishment in the story and frozen ponies died).

The magical friendship heart was probably dangerous to the windigos simply due to its magical fire... or its like a limited elements of harmony that vanquishes things that aren't friendly. The point is that the windigos just wanted to enforce the natural cycle of the seasons and have winter happen and the ponies were just in the way of their goal. Its quite possible that the windigos are still around but have come to an understanding with Celestia and the ponies to make sure the seasons occur in their proper manner. The windigoes might prefer all creatures to sleep during the winter but ponies want to be up and about, so they agree to stay peaceful during winter, put up the friendship heart to show they remember (or just announce which parts of Equestria have loud ponies in them), and then agree to wrap up winter after its all done.

The windigos are pretty much invisible when winter is going right but may appear when fighting breaks out during this time (they take out fighting armies or rampaging monster when it happens in winter). So, the original reason for the windigos attack was to enforce the change of seasons but constant retellings of the story changed the moral to promote harmony between the pony races. The windigos didn't want to exterminate the ponies, just drive them to hide during the winter or at worse freeze them so they thawed out in spring. Still not nice and would let them be targeted by friendship magic but at least it isn't a "promote harmony or die by evil spirits" moral.

[lordofchange13]

Wait a second... Wild Mass Guessing time!...... Still not nice and would let them be targeted by friendship magic but at least it isn't a "promote harmony or die by evil spirits" moral.

That is some crazy semi-plausible stuff you got there. Though your reason for the spirits actions seems a little bit out there.

[open_sketchbook]

That's now in my personal canon. Awesome stuff.

[Zixinus]

Just a quick thought: there may be other varieties of ponies in Canterlot and Applelusa and whatnot, it was just that we didn't see them (either because they were busy elsewhere or the animators forgot to include them).

That, and remember Sweet and Elite: an Earth pony was standing on the cloud that marked the racing-area for the Wonderbolts. It is likely that he has a similar enchantment that Twilight did in Sonic Rainboom. I am not sure what it means exactly, but it does mean a lack of selection on the idea (ie, no pegasus saying "but a pegasus should start the race!").

[NecronLord]

I mean, it's basically the same situation in modern-day Equestria: the earth ponies grow the food, the pegasi control the weather, and the unicorns probably do something. Enchant all the seemingly-electronic technology they use, maybe. Except before, the unicorns and the pegasi were lording it over the earth pony peasants; now, everyone gets along. The earth ponies are still providing the food, but they don't feel resentful because the others aren't assholes about it.

It probably helps quite a lot that the earth ponies also get paid for their goods now.

To my mind it does suggest that as well as saving all three races from the torments of Discord, the earth ponies in particular probably hailed Celestia and Luna as liberators, as their arrival removed the hold the unicorns had over them at a stroke, and doubtless forced the unicorns to go do some proper work.

[Revy]

Great episode. I have to wonder though if the windigos here are glimpse of a future villain? Thematically they sound perfect for one. An enemy that feeds on conflict and strife but is vanquished by friendship and harmony, and can potentially bring eternal winter to Equestria.

Nightmare Moon = Eternal Night
Discord = Eternal Chaos
Windigo = Eternal Winter

Maybe either the season finale or season 3 opener will feature a windigo showing up and sowing conflict between everypony during winter wrap up, preventing the arrival of spring and freezing Equestria over. If the windigo actually has some smarts and personality (as opposed to just being a silent force of nature) then it might stir things up to the extent that the vision Discord showed Applejack might actually happen for real.

Or maybe not, and they were just a one note lesson for the Christmas special episode. Incidentally, do we know where the Elements of Harmony came from? I'm not sure but I vaguely remember Celestia saying she found them, in which case she didn't actually make them herself. Who did? Do you think it'll be significant as to where they came from?

With regards to Prince Blueblood, from what I heard Faust said he's "the great great great great great great great great great great great (and probably even more greats) nephew on Celestia's and Luna's mother's side, about 52 times removed, roughly speaking."

Which by the way confirms that Celestia and Luna have or had a mother and are not avatars of belief and worship. I really have to wonder at their parents though. What kind of couple produces a pair of winged unicorn earth ponies? Maybe their mother was a unicorn and father an earth pony, and C&L just used their unicorn magic to get pegasus wings and abilities.

[Serafina]

I like the idea that Celestias and Lunas special abilities (longevity, wings+horns) come from their enormous magical abilities, rather than the other way around.

We already know that magic can give a pony wings. Sure, they weren't permanent and weren't Pegasi wings, but still.
And we know that there is a huge variety between Unicorns magical skills - Twilight is better than everyone but the Princesses, while other Unicorns can have trouble with even the simplest spells.

So it's quite possible that a very powerful Unicorn (perhaps utilizing the magic of Friendship or the Elements of Harmony) could transform herself into an Alicorn and make herself immortal. And if Celestia and Luna used the Elements of Harmony for that, it'd make for a wonderful backstory.

[Crossroads Inc.]

My own person head cannon, is that Luna and Celestia are actually not from the "planet" of Equestria at all.
Instead they are indeed nearly Devine cosmic entities that came to Equestria after traveling the cosmos.

In an effort to stave off the boredom that comes from eons of immortality, they settled on the primitive world and took on the shape of it's inhabitants.
At some point they ended up "overthrowing" the local god (Discord) and established themselves in their current places of Power.

This could keep the explanation "They really ARE gods" while also explain why they weren't always around Equestria, at least not back during the time of it's founding.

[evilsoup]

Okay that could work (and I have a friend who is working on a space opera fanfic where Celestia and Luna are scions of a race of star-spanning winged-unicorn-gods), but I prefer to be parsimonious with my fan theories. Unicorn magic can be used to explain their powers (especially given the latest episode), and there's not even a hint that they're some kind of deep-time space-gods.

Also, I don't see how 'they are gods' is incompatible with 'they started off as mortals'.

[Serafina]

Unless i am severely wrong, they are also never referred to as gods in the actual show.
They also do not desire worship and care too deeply about their subjects to make "they're just bored gods" sound reasonable to me.

Also, if being an Alicorn is just a matter of being capable of using the right spell to give you Pegasus-wings, that might explain any other Alicons we might see. Who's to say that being an Alicorn automatically comes with awesome magic powers and immortality?

Maybe it's just a matter of finding a way of blending the three aspects of Ponykind together via magic - a Unicorn (or maybe even other pony) who fully understands the Harmony between Pegasi, Unicorns and Earth Ponies can become an Alicorn. Maybe that grants it an enhanced lifespan and more magic to boot, maybe powerful magic is required to get there in the first place.

At any rate, i am certainly exited if and how the show is going to explain Alicorns.

[evilsoup]

When I refer to them as gods, it's really just a way of getting across their level of power, and also so I can call Celestia the God-Princess of Ponykind.

We know that Celestia and Luna have both wielded the Elements of Harmony. It may be that the Elements are what allowed them to become what they are (my favourite theory)... or they may have just been immensely powerful unicorns in their own right. Or they're the X-Ponies, and were just born that way.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Unless i am severely wrong, they are also never referred to as gods in the actual show.
They also do not desire worship and care too deeply about their subjects to make "they're just bored gods" sound reasonable to me.

Also, if being an Alicorn is just a matter of being capable of using the right spell to give you Pegasus-wings, that might explain any other Alicons we might see. Who's to say that being an Alicorn automatically comes with awesome magic powers and immortality?

Maybe it's just a matter of finding a way of blending the three aspects of Ponykind together via magic - a Unicorn (or maybe even other pony) who fully understands the Harmony between Pegasi, Unicorns and Earth Ponies can become an Alicorn. Maybe that grants it an enhanced lifespan and more magic to boot, maybe powerful magic is required to get there in the first place.

At any rate, i am certainly exited if and how the show is going to explain Alicorns.

This is rather true. I guess given the fanbase and all of the fanwork that has grown around Celestia and Luna, the idea of "ALL POWERFUL GODS! but toying with mortals" has kind of caught on.

Given what hints we have of season three. It would seem there are more Alicorns out there and have existed in the past. If I wanted to be true to the show, I would echo your remarks that the making of an Alicorn has something to do with perfectly blending the three aspects of Ponykind together.

After all an Alicorn Isn't just a Unicorn with wings, or a Pegasis with a horn... They embody all aspects of Pony and have a power level to the Xth degree above anyone else. If the elements is some how involved... Well...

I think the more pressing question at this point is where the heck the Elements came from?
I mean, it is established that Discord was more powerful then Luna and Celestia, but with the elements, he was defeated.

So yeah... If we wanted to look for evidance of something truely Cosmic and Powerful, we would look at where those came from.

[Serafina]

We have hints of Season Three? Ooooh, do tell me, i am completely clueless about that.

[evilsoup]

Hasbro has showcased a new toy they are going to release, 'princess Cadence', another winged unicorn. Last week, one of the voice actors confirmed that he's voiced princess Cadence in some recordings for the third series. So all we know is that there is going to be a third winged unicorn, and that she's also a princess (perhaps 'princess' is a title bestowed upon winged unicorns by default?)... hopefully the episode will give us some background information on how the winged unicorns work.

While searching EqD for that link, I also found this. According to Lauren Faust (the actual god of Equestria) Celestia knew beforehand that Twilight was special, and gave her the dragon egg as a special test. Which means that Celestia has some kind of precognitive ability... and that may explain how she knew the right time to send Spike all of those letters in Return of Harmony part II.

[Revy]

Did nopony read my post at all? I already asked where the Elements came from. And I doubt Celestia can be an ancient space god from another planet given that quote from Faust about Blueblood.

If Celestia knew in advance Twilight was special and arranged for her to have a special test, then why was she wandering around the streets outside while the test was going down? I'd have thought she'd want to at least be in the building when Twilight was getting her test if that were the case. Instead, what we actually see is Celestia minding her own business outside, then noticing a giant dragon head protruding from the roof of her special academy. Mind you, I was thinking of doing a time travel fic in which the mane 6 go back to Discord's rule and have to teach a younger Celestia and Luna about friendship and the Elements so they can defeat him. Would explain why Celestia always has such faith in Twilight and why she chose her as her personal student.

[evilsoup]

She was minding her own business on the street right outside the building where Twilight was taking her test, ready to leap into action within seconds of things going wrong. She could have been anywhere else in the world, or even somewhere further away in Canterlot (her palace, for example), but she was just where she was needed.

As to your question about the Elements, I don't think there's any canon explanation on where they came from, nor any 'Word of Faust' pronouncements. My personal theory is that they have something to do with what we saw in Hearth's Warming Eve: the character Twilight was playing focused a friendship-powered beam of power to drive away the monsters, which is how the Elements seem to work.

We know that Celestia and Luna used the EoH to turn Discord to stone. But they might have been different back then. Remeber in the pilot, that the Elements were round stones? Only after Twilight realised that she had to use the magic of friendship did they transform into the nifty pieces of jewellery we know them as; and that was after Nightmare Moon had shattered the Elements' stone forms. It seems to me that 'group of friends' is more important than the actual artefacts. Discord knew this, which is why he was so blase about letting the ponies find the Elements - he'd already broken their friendship, so who cares about them having a few baubles?

It seems to me that Celestia must have known that too... but perhaps let Discord think that she didn't know, so that he could break apart the mane cast - and then let his guard down, so Celestia can send her letters. Maybe the elements are the result of the magic of friendship, rather than being the source of it?


ALSO damn, I was thinking of writing a pretty similar fic... except the mane cast would have ended up scattered through time, and have to Set Right What Once Went Wrong in order to return to the present. But there would have been a scene with one of them convincing the princesses to move against Discord..

[Revy]

There's also the fact that Discord knew exactly who the mane 6 were very quickly after getting free. He knew their names, knew their personalities and knew which element each of them represented. And he took a great deal of pleasure in focusing his attentions on breaking each one of them. Whilst he could have learned about them using his powers, and focused on them because they were a threat to him, it just as equally could be that he's already met them before and wanted payback for whatever happened.

Probably not, but it's a nice thought.

Am I the only one who thinks that there's a similarity in appearance between Princess Cadence and Twilight? Could they be related to each other some way? I know it's quite common for fans to write stories in which certain characters (such as the CMCs) are actually adopted and their real parents turn out to be someone unexpected. Might Twilight have been adopted by the 'parents' we saw in Cutie Mark Chronicles? Maybe she's actually a princess/alicorn in the making, which is why she is so powerful. Might be why Celestia knew she was special in advance, and why she's shown such interest in her.

[Bright]

Might Twilight have been adopted by the 'parents' we saw in Cutie Mark Chronicles?

I doubt it. She just looked too similar to them. Besides, her mother was a copy of the Gen 1 character "Twilight" that Twilight Sparkle was based on. It's also the design she was originally supposed to have in Friendship Is Magic.

[cometstail]

I love My Little Pony. I think there's an older version of it when I was younger cause I remember I had a coloring book of this in gradeschool. ^_^

[lordofchange13]

Am I the only one who thinks that there's a similarity in appearance between Princess Cadence and Twilight? Could they be related to each other some way?

I'm in my mind hoping that it turn's out that the Princess is Twilight from the future when her magical powers develop enough for her to have wings. She can teleport through space why not through time?

[lordofchange13]

I love My Little Pony. I think there's an older version of it when I was younger cause I remember I had a coloring book of this in gradeschool. ^_^

I wouldn't even compare the older generations and FiM, one has hippos with spaghetti hair, the other has vaguely horse shaped creatures with compelling characters. They are distinctly different series in all but name. Did Celestia exist in the old universes?

[Zixinus]

If Celestia knew in advance Twilight was special and arranged for her to have a special test, then why was she wandering around the streets outside while the test was going down?

Possibly for numerous reasons. For one thing, she suspected it, not knew it. She wasn't sure.

Among others, she didn't want to compromise a nervous student's entry by her presence. Nor make anyone suspicious.

She could have been anywhere else in the world, or even somewhere further away in Canterlot (her palace, for example), but she was just where she was needed.

The school is called "Celestia's School of Gifted Unicorns". It is not unreasonable to assume that she teaches there, if not regularly check on it or visit it.