Luke Cage (spoilers)

[Crazedwraith]

Well no spoilers yet but Netflix/marvels Luke Cage is released today. Spun off from the decent Jessica Jones series.

Anyone prepping to binge this this weekend?

[Broomstick]

....when I get home, yeah... so probably later this week.

[General Zod]

I worked on a couple episodes, so I'm definitely going to be binge-watching. By all accounts the reviews are pretty positive.

[Vendetta]

So I finished the series.

Snap verdict: It's better than Daredevil season 2, not quite as good as Jessica Jones or Daredevil season 1.

Spoiler

My main issue with the series is that Cottonmouth goes out way too fast and he had the most screen presence and was the most fun to watch of any of the villains.

Diamondback was blah, I wasn't invested in his less-favourite-son arc with Cage and Cage himself doesn't really appear to be invested in it either. Also Erik LaRay Harvey was not as much fun to watch as Mahershala Ali.

The B plot between Misty Knight and Mariah was more effective in the second half of the series (Simone Missick carries quite a lot of the tension and stakes in the latter half, as much as Jon Bernthal did in Daredevil S2). Diamondback was a distraction and more Cottonmouth/Mariah for longer, with Luke Cage being more invested in the conflict as he was at the start, leading into the same eventual conclusion would have been better.


I still liked it. I like Michael Colter in the role, Simone Missick was fantastic and more Misty Knight in future please, Mahershala Ali was great and bowed out too soon, the action was good (albeit the final confrontation didn't resonate because again, Diamondback didn't), the soundtrack was top notch all the way through (definitely the best soundtrack of any of the Marvel TV shows, with real presence and resonance with the narrative).

Just didn't give a shit about the Big Bad. Diamondback didn't work, I didn't feel anything about him and his connection to Cottonmouth felt too convenient when his real big payoff was his family relationship with Cage which even Cage doesn't care about.

Dammit Marvel TV you gave us Fisk and Kilgrave, and you nearly did it again with Cottonmouth, why was this scrub allowed in the story? (And he's not out yet because ending. Maybe that'll go away in Defenders and LC season 2 if they do one, and I can't imagine they'll stop now, can be free of him.)

Still, at least slippery politico turned gang lord Mariah will be better for next season, because she did actually have business being in the story and was good onscreen.

[Gaidin]

Am I the only one who noticed that Luke goes from Bar Owner to Two-Job Bartender? Surely it can't be that hard for him to get a decent job SOMEWHERE?

[General Zod]

Am I the only one who noticed that Luke goes from Bar Owner to Two-Job Bartender? Surely it can't be that hard for him to get a decent job SOMEWHERE?

He claims to be a wanted fugitive, so he's taking all his work under the table. I'm not entirely sure on the continuity but it seems like it happens well after Jessica Jones.

[Gaidin]

He claims to be a wanted fugitive, so he's taking all his work under the table. I'm not entirely sure on the continuity but it seems like it happens well after Jessica Jones.

Was he that fugitive that changed his name before he got that bar and before Jessica Jones? Because this is still sort of whack. Jessica knew him as Luke Cage so...

[General Zod]

He claims to be a wanted fugitive, so he's taking all his work under the table. I'm not entirely sure on the continuity but it seems like it happens well after Jessica Jones.

Was he that fugitive that changed his name before he got that bar and before Jessica Jones? Because this is still sort of whack. Jessica knew him as Luke Cage so...

Yeah, I dunno. It's a little out of wack.

[Gaidin]

Don't get me wrong. Still loving it. This is one of those mere wtf details that has me just o_O.

[ray245]

This is after Jessica Jones. They mentioned him getting shot by his former girlfriend.

[Joun_Lord]

Burning through the series. Enjoying it more then Daredevil S2 and Jessica Jones (which were still good shows but ninjas and Kilgrave suck as villains I think), probably as much as Daredevil S1. More action-y then JJ which depending on your tastes could be a good or bad thing. I like Luke far more then Jessica though according to a comic book friend that intended, Jessica is supposed to be caustic as fuck. Like the side characters so far. Even the villains are well not likeable but you understand their motivations, they aren't 2 dimensional cackling villains.

Like Daredevil and JJ it shows more of the street level view of the MCU, it shows the results of the Avengers farting aboot. Most people are still doing their day to day things mostly unchanged but its a changed world. A world of interplanetary invasions, superhero and villains, and there is an undercurrent of people afraid. I really liked the cop lamenting the fact they can't do shit when the sky opens up, that versus the threats out there now they are useless.

The Battle of New York or "The Event" is probably like 9/11 on steroids. Hydra and Ultron probably made it a worldwide thing. Shit like the Sokovia Accords probably make sense in-universe even if out of universe they don't. People are afraid, they want to do something, anything to feel safe. They turn to their leaders for solutions but they can't do shit but craft bills. You can craft bills to stop aliens or rogue AIs, all they can do is go after the most visible thing. The Sokovia Accords are like all those post 9/11 laws that got rammed through by politicians trying to look like they were doing something.

I'd love to get a full picture of the MCU world. I'd almost wonder if Agents of Shield show more of the world but don't care enough to find out.

[FaxModem1]

I've gone through the first five episodes, plan on finishing the rest over the weekend. I'm rather enjoying it.

Some minor things that made me confused:

This is probably a really dumb question, but isn't "Keep Harlem Black" a rather racist election slogan? It'd be like if in an Andy Griffith episode, the mayor's slogan was "Keep Mayberry White".

A hustler on the street is trying to sell 'HD DVDs and Blu rays' of the Avengers. Are these DVDs adaptations of the Avengers? If so, who, in-universe, holds the licensing rights? If these are just DVDs of found footage from their battles, are they collectors items?

If not, is this our first appearance of the Watcher, maybe trying to make a small fortune by taking DVDs from our world and selling it in theirs?

Luke, for most of his crime fighting, doesn't wear gloves. I'm rather surprised this never alerted the cops rather early(within the first crime scene or two) that a Carl Lucas's fingerprints were all over the crime scene.

That aside, I know it's silly, but I kind of wish Luke kept the bracelets, and maybe the crown. They gave him a nice look.

[General Zod]

A hustler on the street is trying to sell 'HD DVDs and Blu rays' of the Avengers. Are these DVDs adaptations of the Avengers? If so, who, in-universe, holds the licensing rights? If these are just DVDs of found footage from their battles, are they collectors items?

If you pay attention he goes on to say it's basically "found footage", so videos people took with their phones and from other sources compiled into one dvd.

Luke, for most of his crime fighting, doesn't wear gloves. I'm rather surprised this never alerted the cops rather early(within the first crime scene or two) that a Carl Lucas's fingerprints were all over the crime scene.

Getting fingerprints could take weeks, and it doesn't seem like events move quite that slowly.

[Joun_Lord]

A hustler on the street is trying to sell 'HD DVDs and Blu rays' of the Avengers. Are these DVDs adaptations of the Avengers? If so, who, in-universe, holds the licensing rights? If these are just DVDs of found footage from their battles, are they collectors items?

Luke, for most of his crime fighting, doesn't wear gloves. I'm rather surprised this never alerted the cops rather early(within the first crime scene or two) that a Carl Lucas's fingerprints were all over the crime scene.

If I remember correctly the hawker said they are from the Incident. Presumably they are like cell phone footage or something of the Chitauri invasion that people burned onto discs. Why someone would be hawking the footage on a street is beyond me though. Any footage of the Avengers would have to be on the internet for all to see. It would be kinda like somebody selling footage of the 9/11 attacks on DVD. Doesn't make alot of sense.

The fingerprints thing bothered me too, as did him letting himself get on the news. Even if for some reason his enhanced skin meant that he didn't leave fingerprints somebody is sure to recognize him despite his Mr Clean look. Going around like that is not exactly smart for a wanted felon.

[FaxModem1]

Finished the story. I agree with Vendetta in that the story loses its way, and as Luke Cage doesn't seem to really regard the main villain as something to really stress out about, neither does the audience. Man, did they focus on the wrong villain.

I'm also noticing a trend in Netflix shows that the villains keep on picking fights with each other.

Now, some spoilers while discussing the greater impact stuff: Spoiler

If some black market thug can obtain supersuits to give them strength and resistance to bullets, why can't SHIELD? Is that part of the Accords?

Two, just how much of an x-factor is Luke Cage when it comes to making people immortal? Being able to replicate the process would be a miraculous day for science. Yes, they were experimenting on prisoners to do so, but unless the scientist was lying, they were consenting to this.

Luke Cage's little temper tantrum and smashing up of the lab might ensure that he stays the only one with perfect health and immortality. So it seems that he was saying less "Experimenting on prisoners is wrong" and more "No one can be immortal but me!". Which is understandable in a meta-sense, as it makes the Marvel world less relateable if the scientist really did cure cancer or HIV, but it makes Luke Cage into kind of an asshole.

[Simon_Jester]

I've gone through the first five episodes, plan on finishing the rest over the weekend. I'm rather enjoying it.

Some minor things that made me confused:

This is probably a really dumb question, but isn't "Keep Harlem Black" a rather racist election slogan? It'd be like if in an Andy Griffith episode, the mayor's slogan was "Keep Mayberry White".

Yes and no.

You can make a good case for racism.

At the same time... Harlem is one of the historic centers of black culture in America. There's a reason why, in the context of African-American cultural history, we talk about the 'Harlem Renaissance' of the interwar era. It was a very vibrant area in many ways, not like today's ghettoes, in part because due to segregation, rich and poor blacks tended to live in the same areas in those days.

At the same time, there's a prevailing issue of 'gentrification' making Harlem and areas like it impossible for most blacks to afford to live in. The areas that were once ghettoes into which they were herded against their will, now become popular. So from the point of view of blacks wanting any sense of identity, where do they call their own, if not Harlem?

In that context, "keep Harlem black" can be about dislike of whites... but it can also be about how this is one of the few areas in America that is historically populated by blacks, where blacks have positive cultural memories and a thriving way of life going back for generations... and they might not want that taken away from them, because that's a rare thing for them.

It's hard for an ethnic minority to preserve an identity and a sense of self-respect when the majority can just keep buying out any place they call their own.

[General Zod]

Two, just how much of an x-factor is Luke Cage when it comes to making people immortal? Being able to replicate the process would be a miraculous day for science. Yes, they were experimenting on prisoners to do so, but unless the scientist was lying, they were consenting to this.

I'm not sure that your definition of consent and the definition that any medical review board uses match up. It's safe to say that a lot of coercion was going on and it was implied that prisoners who the guards didn't like ended up getting Frankensteined.

[FaxModem1]

Two, just how much of an x-factor is Luke Cage when it comes to making people immortal? Being able to replicate the process would be a miraculous day for science. Yes, they were experimenting on prisoners to do so, but unless the scientist was lying, they were consenting to this.

I'm not sure that your definition of consent and the definition that any medical review board uses match up. It's safe to say that a lot of coercion was going on and it was implied that prisoners who the guards didn't like ended up getting Frankensteined.

Fair enough, Seagate was not a nice place.

My point being, Luke Cage may have just destroyed a new era of medicine in a fit of pique.

[General Zod]

Two, just how much of an x-factor is Luke Cage when it comes to making people immortal? Being able to replicate the process would be a miraculous day for science. Yes, they were experimenting on prisoners to do so, but unless the scientist was lying, they were consenting to this.

I'm not sure that your definition of consent and the definition that any medical review board uses match up. It's safe to say that a lot of coercion was going on and it was implied that prisoners who the guards didn't like ended up getting Frankensteined.

Fair enough, Seagate was not a nice place.

My point being, Luke Cage may have just destroyed a new era of medicine in a fit of pique.

Considering the warden was fucking with the machines that were supposed to be saving his life, I think his reaction was perfectly natural. It's not like he's going to fully understand the depths of what happened to him after he just got out of the tank, shit might have just been temporary for all he knew.

[FaxModem1]

Umm, I'm talking about the barn scene, not the flashback right after the experiment.

[General Zod]

Umm, I'm talking about the barn scene, not the flashback right after the experiment.

Which episode? Because I've only just finished 7. And I think it's safe to say the potential for abusing this sort of enhancement is really obvious.

[Vendetta]

Fair enough, Seagate was not a nice place.

My point being, Luke Cage may have just destroyed a new era of medicine in a fit of pique.

Call me cynical, but mass human immortality alone, let alone combined with extreme strength, is a recipe for utter disaster.

We're already straining the biosphere in a world where we have the decency to die off after a while.

Not that this sort of thing would ever be allowed onto the mass market, of course. It's the very definition of something that would be restricted to a small elite.

Luke Cage just tried to save the world from every SF dystopia you've ever seen.

[FaxModem1]

Fair enough, Seagate was not a nice place.

My point being, Luke Cage may have just destroyed a new era of medicine in a fit of pique.

Call me cynical, but mass human immortality alone, let alone combined with extreme strength, is a recipe for utter disaster.

We're already straining the biosphere in a world where we have the decency to die off after a while.

Not that this sort of thing would ever be allowed onto the mass market, of course. It's the very definition of something that would be restricted to a small elite.

Luke Cage just tried to save the world from every SF dystopia you've ever seen.

If that's the case, maybe season 2 can have Luke Cage blowing up some Medicinal research facilities, dealing with the excess population and its strain on the planet./sarcasm

This honestly is the same answer as to why Peter Parker didn't try to save his dying friend in ASM2. Nicholas Flamel from Harry Potter is just as heroic, as discussed in this thread. It boils down to it being better to not try to make the world better, for fear of the worst happening because a medicine could be held by the elite.

Yes, the doctor worked for a shady organization(might be the same that created Nuke in Jessica Jones for all we know), but if throwing away potential cures because they might make it worse seems rather general apathy about the rest of the world at best, or a petty, selfish human being at worst.


Though, again, this is all assuming the doctor isn't a total scumbag and would be only giving it to the rich and powerful, which if that's the case, I'm sure Luke Cage and Night Nurse could hire Jessica Jones and Daredevil to help keep him in line, or then destroy all his research and give it to someone more responsible.

Umm, I'm talking about the barn scene, not the flashback right after the experiment.

Which episode? Because I've only just finished 7. And I think it's safe to say the potential for abusing this sort of enhancement is really obvious.

10, I believe. And yes, abuse is very obvious. But there's a line between stopping progress altogether and trying to be responsible about it.

[Vendetta]

This honestly is the same answer as to why Peter Parker didn't try to save his dying friend in ASM2. Nicholas Flamel from Harry Potter is just as heroic, as discussed in this thread. It boils down to it being better to not try to make the world better, for fear of the worst happening because a medicine could be held by the elite.

No, here's the thing. Immortality held only by the elite is the best case scenario. This is a "pick your dystopia" scenario.

Immortality for all would be catastrophic. With no more death from old age we would overrun the resources of the planet far far faster than we are already doing, and with everyone super strong and almost invulnerable the steps required to stop desperate people from trying to take food or increasingly scarce resources would be immensely destructive, worsening the problem. That's cataclysm within at most two generations.

Immortality without equally massive changes in resource availability would exacerbate every social problem humanity has.

[FaxModem1]

This honestly is the same answer as to why Peter Parker didn't try to save his dying friend in ASM2. Nicholas Flamel from Harry Potter is just as heroic, as discussed in this thread. It boils down to it being better to not try to make the world better, for fear of the worst happening because a medicine could be held by the elite.

No, here's the thing. Immortality held only by the elite is the best case scenario. This is a "pick your dystopia" scenario.

Immortality for all would be catastrophic. With no more death from old age we would overrun the resources of the planet far far faster than we are already doing, and with everyone super strong and almost invulnerable the steps required to stop desperate people from trying to take food or increasingly scarce resources would be immensely destructive, worsening the problem. That's cataclysm within at most two generations.

Immortality without equally massive changes in resource availability would exacerbate every social problem humanity has.

Luke Cage burning down hospitals and medical research facilities to deal with the excess population it is.

Best to keep mankind as low and unadvanced as possible and prevent there from being any positive change from all the weird advances and powers happening in the MCU. It's not as if they also could have Arc Reactors powering their cities, SHIELD designed space vehicles to colonize the solar system and beyond, and/or shrinking technology to greatly enlarge resources and get rid of waste.

And even if all that wasn't possible due to the Accords, Tony Stark prefers to keep his toys, some of the science is just lost, it was already established that Judas rounds can do the trick if someone wants to conquer the world using their superstrength and invulnerable skin. Not to mention that humanity is already dealing with the cataclysm of Inhumans popping out of the woodwork everywhere and aliens are thinking Earth is the new tourist hotspot.

I guess it's better to ensure that the cure for cancer or HIV is never found(which was the doctor's stated motivation) than possibly having the capability to change the world(even as its rapidly changing already).