Smaug vs Balrog

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-06-25 10:57pm

Pretty much self explainitory.

~Fixed

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-06-25 10:58pm

Errr that should probably read Smaug. Would be kinda funny to pit a Balrog vs LA Smog though.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-06-25 10:59pm

A Balrog is considerably more powerful.

Stormin · Post by **Stormin** » 2003-06-25 11:43pm

smaug in his prime might be a match but he was pretty old when killed.

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-06-26 01:02am

And the Balrog was pretty wily when it fought with Gandalf. At best Smaug could only hope for. But then what can you hope for against and agent of the Shadows. (Where else do you see a screaming black wraith of destruction but B5?)
And being a creature of fire and shadow it would have a hard time with the Smog, as it might be put out.

Raxmei · Post by **Raxmei** » 2003-06-26 01:21am

Stormin wrote:smaug in his prime might be a match but he was pretty old when killed.

I thought dragons became more powerful with age, not less.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-06-26 03:58am

Indeed. The Silmarillion states that dragons were intended to be much more powerful than balrogs.

Smaug vs Durin's bane (I assume that's who you mean) would be a slaughter. Smaug is pretty much impervious to anything DB has, and could lift him up and drop him onto a mountain like a magpie and a snail writ large.

For a comparison Melkor's dagons took on armies by themselves. Galurung had balrogs who obeyed his orders, out of fear.

And the Balrog was pretty wily when it fought with Gandalf.

Was it? It stepped forward after seeing the brigde damaged.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-06-26 04:08am

NecronLord wrote:Indeed. The Silmarillion states that dragons were intended to be much more powerful than balrogs.

Smaug vs Durin's bane (I assume that's who you mean) would be a slaughter. Smaug is pretty much impervious to anything DB has, and could lift him up and drop him onto a mountain like a magpie and a snail writ large.

For a comparison Melkor's dagons took on armies by themselves. Galurung had balrogs who obeyed his orders, out of fear.

That doesn't seem to fit with events on the Hobbit in which a local militia defeated a dragon despite it having most of its belly unnaturally armored.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-06-26 04:26am

Sea Skimmer wrote: That doesn't seem to fit with events on the Hobbit in which a local militia defeated a dragon despite it having most of its belly unnaturally armored.

It was stated to be a lucky shot with a magic arrow.

Darth Gojira · Post by **Darth Gojira** » 2003-06-26 08:18am

Smaug vs. Godzilla, anyone?

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2003-06-26 09:39am

Darth Gojira wrote:Smaug vs. Godzilla, anyone?

Now that... would be a battle royale.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2003-06-26 03:52pm

How about Gothmog, rather than Durin's Bane vs. Smaug?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-26 05:19pm

fgalkin wrote:How about Gothmog, rather than Durin's Bane vs. Smaug?

Gothmog still goes down. Dragons had more sheer power and are much more resistant to damage. Gothmog would give a much better account than the lesser Balrog that is Durin's Bane, but he'd still go down.

Balrogs, being ex-Maiar, probably suffered the same sort of decline as Morogoth or Sauron. Not to mention their primary function was never the same role as dragons. More battlefield magic-users than seige critters.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-06-26 05:40pm

NecronLord wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote: That doesn't seem to fit with events on the Hobbit in which a local militia defeated a dragon despite it having most of its belly unnaturally armored.
It was stated to be a lucky shot with a magic arrow.

Unhun, however if Smaug had not been able to sleep on a massive bed of gold for decades it wouldn't have mattered, since other militia repeatedly hit him.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-06-27 03:49am

Sea Skimmer wrote: Unhun, however if Smaug had not been able to sleep on a massive bed of gold for decades it wouldn't have mattered, since other militia repeatedly hit him.

It was stated to be a lucky shot with a magic arrow.

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-06-27 03:59am

It's the arrow that went through smaug and then hit president kennedy.
Back and to the left
Back and to the left
Back
and to the left

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-06-27 04:09am

NecronLord wrote:
It was stated to be a lucky shot with a magic arrow.

So normal arrows repeatedly skewering him wouldn't have any effect? I somehow think not.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-06-27 05:08am

They hit him and had no effect did they not? And in the Slimarillion other dragons ignore arrows. Galurung for example, was stabbed in the same weak spot under the shoulder, it's a very lucky shot.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-06-27 06:37am

Sea Skimmer wrote:So normal arrows repeatedly skewering him wouldn't have any effect? I somehow think not.

The Black Arrow was supposed to have never missed it's mark and always recoverable. As it happened, Bard the Bowman caught Smaug in the sweet spot and put the Black Arrow through his heart.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-06-27 06:42am

Smaug with the ring would be a very cool alternative story to what was in the Hobbit and the LotR.

I'd also be interested to see what the ring would do to Smaug. Look what it did to Gollum and he was essentially a Hobitt. Certainly Smaug would be more powerful.

Since dragonfire wouldn't destroy the One Ring just imagine if Smaug figured out he had the ring after he swallowed Bilbo.

So, how would you get Smaug to fly himself into the lava at Mt. Doom? It's either that or try to kill Smaug (with the ring) and then cut it out of him before taking it to Mt. Doom.

I think Middle Earth would eventually be in much worse shape with Smaug getting the One Ring that it would be if Sauron got it. The only exception would be if the ring made Smaug want to stay in his mountain even more, guarding the ring, guarding the treasure and the ring. If it made him seek out more treasure I just picture Smaug (with the ring) scorching much of Middle Earth if he wants to.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-06-27 08:07am

My previous post ended up in the wrong thread so if a mod is so inclined they can delete it and this post.

Thank you.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-06-27 08:38am

Gil Hamilton wrote: The Black Arrow was supposed to have never missed it's mark and always recoverable. As it happened, Bard the Bowman caught Smaug in the sweet spot and put the Black Arrow through his heart.

I know that, now would you stop dodging my point. It was stated that many shots where hitting but smashing against Smaug's golden belly. But he only has that belly because he had a huge pile of gold to lie on for decades. As they are naturally a dragon wouldn't last long aginst any army with archers. That’s likely why Smaug could beat the Dwarves, they don’t use any archers.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-27 06:58pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Gil Hamilton wrote: The Black Arrow was supposed to have never missed it's mark and always recoverable. As it happened, Bard the Bowman caught Smaug in the sweet spot and put the Black Arrow through his heart.
I know that, now would you stop dodging my point. It was stated that many shots where hitting but smashing against Smaug's golden belly. But he only has that belly because he had a huge pile of gold to lie on for decades. As they are naturally a dragon wouldn't last long aginst any army with archers. That’s likely why Smaug could beat the Dwarves, they don’t use any archers.

Actually, Glaurung stomped through archers and spearmen with virtual impunity once he was fully mature (as Samug is). There's no question that dragons can take arrow hits with impunity over most of their bodies.

Dragons have only a few weaker spots. Their bellies are softer (but hardly soft or weak) and some what more vulnerable. It was only a very lucky shot in the weakest spot felled Smaug.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-06-28 06:05am

Tsyroc wrote:Since dragonfire wouldn't destroy the One Ring just imagine if Smaug figured out he had the ring after he swallowed Bilbo. So, how would you get Smaug to fly himself into the lava at Mt. Doom? It's either that or try to kill Smaug (with the ring) and then cut it out of him before taking it to Mt. Doom.

Ot you could wait for a few days, get a fork and start going through some Dragon droppings.

Darth Gojira · Post by **Darth Gojira** » 2003-06-28 07:39am

What if Laketown had catapaults? Or at least ballistae?