If Buffy the Next Star Trek

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2003-08-04 09:31am

Fun article comparing the rise of Star Trek with that of Buffy

What is your opinion on this?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-08-04 09:43am

He's stretching way too much and great deal of personal bias.

He tries too hard to fit some things Trek did to what Buffy is...and really with the Kirk/Buffy comparison is looking like he's trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

I enjoyed Buffy...I enjoy Angel a bit more because Angel doesn't revert to stupdity as much...but seeing it as the next Trek? No.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2003-08-04 05:08pm

He completely lost me when he called Gellar a "phenomenal actress." She can handle melodrama alright, she's good at whining and can cry on cue, which makes her well-suited to playing a stuck-up bitch like Buffy Summers, but that's pretty much all she's got. I mean, just look at that season-four episode where she and Eliza Dukshu switched roles. Dukshu played Buffy as well, if not better than Gellar ever did, but Gellar just stuck to the cliches when playing Faith.

Newtonian Fury · Post by **Newtonian Fury** » 2003-08-04 10:09pm

JMH wrote:Plus, Buffy The Vampire Slayer has already been used as the archetype for a fantasy-based series. Dark Angel was Buffy-as-Brunette. Smallville is Buffy-as-Superman. Alias is Buffy-meets-Bond. Charmed is Buffy-With-Babes. And, much like the Trek knock-offs, most of these series will fade into Buffy's background, resurfacing on the Sci-Fi Channel, or as a question in a game of Trivial Pursuit.

Viewers who enjoy Buffy and Angel's philosophical and literary elements would not like this little comparison. BtVS and AtS aren't just good plots. Look past the surface plot device and you'll find real themes. To say all these other series are Buffy spin-offs would be to imply BtVS and AtS are "dumb" television.

I've seen you on ATPOBTVS, Majin. You know what I'm talking about.

Newtonian Fury · Post by **Newtonian Fury** » 2003-08-04 10:15pm

I will say this: The last season of BtVS reminded me of Star Trek right now. Simply, the show dragged on too long. The characters (and to a large extent, the actors) seemed so tired. Many people hated Season 6, but I found it much better than Season 7. Though many of the slow and depressive elements were inherent in both seasons, this slow and seemily dull approach did emphasize the S6 theme of transcendent depression. But for S7? No way.

Thankfully, AtS was so much better despite the bad start in the season.

Baron Mordo · Post by **Baron Mordo** » 2003-08-05 12:04am

Sarah Michelle Gellar, on the other hand, is great as Buffy Sommers because Ms. Gellar is a phenomenal actress, conveying a three-dimensional person with each and every episode.

This man has lost all credibility.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2003-08-05 05:46am

Originally posted by JMH:
Plus, Buffy The Vampire Slayer has already been used as the archetype for a fantasy-based series. Dark Angel was Buffy-as-Brunette. Smallville is Buffy-as-Superman. Alias is Buffy-meets-Bond. Charmed is Buffy-With-Babes. And, much like the Trek knock-offs, most of these series will fade into Buffy's background, resurfacing on the Sci-Fi Channel, or as a question in a game of Trivial Pursuit.

Anyone think this guy's really stretching it by saying all these various shows are Buffy rip-offs? I didn't know that the idea of a bunch of people dealing with Monster of the Weeks was solely the invention of BtVS. For crying out loud, even BtVS itself admits its similarities to Scooby Doo, which had this very idea! And just how does Alias fit in to this? Does BtVS own ass-kicking babes as well?

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2003-08-05 09:38am

Newtonian Fury wrote: Look past the surface plot device and you'll find real themes. To say all these other series are Buffy spin-offs would be to imply BtVS and AtS are "dumb" television.

or that the shows mentioned are mearly cheap bastardizations of Buffy

I've seen you on ATPOBTVS, Majin. You know what I'm talking about.

Yup, but I haven't posted in such a long while, I'm surprised someone recalls. I think the only thing I contributed was a comparison between the creation of the Villanous Faith and the monster Hedorah

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2003-08-05 02:21pm

Jim Raynor wrote: Anyone think this guy's really stretching it by saying all these various shows are Buffy rip-offs? I didn't know that the idea of a bunch of people dealing with Monster of the Weeks was solely the invention of BtVS. For crying out loud, even BtVS itself admits its similarities to Scooby Doo, which had this very idea! And just how does Alias fit in to this? Does BtVS own ass-kicking babes as well?

It's probable that most of them wouldn't have been funded if Buffy hadn't been successful.

After all, in all the years of domestic television before Buffy there's very little of either the teen-fantasy-horror genre on TV (other than Scooby Doo), Or the 'cute babe kicking ass' genre. Both of which have been proliferating recently.

They're not 'rip offs' (Dark Angel is clearly a rehearsal for Battle Angel), but they are attempts to grab some of the same demographic as Buffy did.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2003-08-06 12:46am

Vendetta wrote:It's probable that most of them wouldn't have been funded if Buffy hadn't been successful.

After all, in all the years of domestic television before Buffy there's very little of either the teen-fantasy-horror genre on TV (other than Scooby Doo),

1. There has been fantasy/horror/paranormal shows before Buffy, like the X-files, Poltergeist the Legacy, Baywatch Nights (ack), etc. Going by the author's own methods, I could say that Buffy is the X-files meets WB teen show. You know what else? When I first saw Buffy way back in its first season, I found the idea superficially Power Rangerish. PR had a bunch of teens battling evil forces (which for some reason only attacks their town) lead by some space witch, under the guidance of a floating head. Buffy had a bunch of teens battling evil forces (also concentrated in their town) lead by the Master, under the guidance of their school librarian. Again, going by the author's method of using a few superficial similarities as a basis for calling another show a rip-off, I can say that Buffy is a mature version of the Power Rangers.

2. The characters from Alias, Charmed, and (I think) Dark Angel aren't even teens at all.

Or the 'cute babe kicking ass' genre. Both of which have been proliferating recently.

Xena predates Buffy as well, and is perceived by most people as THE female ass-kicker show.

They're not 'rip offs' (Dark Angel is clearly a rehearsal for Battle Angel), but they are attempts to grab some of the same demographic as Buffy did.

Maybe they are trying to grab the same demographic as Buffy is, maybe they aren't. But the fact is that both the ideas of people battling supernatural forces, and of the ass-kicking female, predate Buffy. But in his bias, the author acts as if BtVS has ownership of these ideas, and that the listed shows (some of which are VERY different) are Buffy rip-offs just because of a single superficial similarity in their premises. Saying Charmed, Smallville, Dark Angel, and Alias are Buffy rip-offs is as ignorant as saying that Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, and Space Above and Beyond are Star Trek rip-offs.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2003-08-06 09:15am

Jim Raynor wrote: 2. The characters from Alias, Charmed, and (I think) Dark Angel aren't even teens at all.

Early Twenties. Buffy was only a teenager for 4 out of 7 seasons.

Or the 'cute babe kicking ass' genre. Both of which have been proliferating recently.
Xena predates Buffy as well, and is perceived by most people as THE female ass-kicker show.

Suddenly reminded of a very stupid feminist who insisted that Xena made a better feminist symbol then Buffy because buffy was-- "Too Small", completly ignoring Buffy's core symbolism: to simplify, She's Tweety Bird. The little blond who is underestimated and kicks your ass.

Also, Xena predates Buffy only by a small maregine (1.5 seasons).and Buffy outlasted Xena in the long run.

They're not 'rip offs' (Dark Angel is clearly a rehearsal for Battle Angel), but they are attempts to grab some of the same demographic as Buffy did.
Maybe they are trying to grab the same demographic as Buffy is, maybe they aren't.

How much do you knoW about the TV industry, and how it worships the 18-35 male demographic? This is the audience that generally everyone aims for. Coinsidently, it's not Buffy's core audience.

But the fact is that both the ideas of people battling supernatural forces, and of the ass-kicking female, predate Buffy.

Buffy Popularized it in a high-school setting. as well as popularising the "Growing up Demonization" Idea, and of general female empowerment.

No one makes ideas anymore, they just popularize old ones. (Some of the things you are saying come from older TV shows are even older then Written Language).

But in his bias, the author acts as if BtVS has ownership of these ideas, and that the listed shows (some of which are VERY different) are Buffy rip-offs just because of a single superficial similarity in their premises. Saying Charmed, Smallville, Dark Angel, and Alias are Buffy rip-offs is as ignorant as saying that Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, and Space Above and Beyond are Star Trek rip-offs.

Charmed is a rip off of just about anything and everything (you name it, they did a mockery of it), especially Buffy (Joss Whedon, the creator of Buffy, has been known to complain about this on at least one recorded occasion).

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2003-08-06 11:39am

Majin Gojira wrote:Suddenly reminded of a very stupid feminist who insisted that Xena made a better feminist symbol then Buffy because buffy was-- "Too Small", completly ignoring Buffy's core symbolism: to simplify, She's Tweety Bird. The little blond who is underestimated and kicks your ass.

Holy shit.

BtVS is defiantly not a show which shows women in responsible positions of power, or for that matter having anyone with any power being overly responcible.

I'm still trying to figure out why a dizzy girl going through post traumatic shock & her hocking up with her rapist is a good thing.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2003-08-06 01:03pm

Majin Gojira wrote:Suddenly reminded of a very stupid feminist who insisted that Xena made a better feminist symbol then Buffy because buffy was-- "Too Small", completly ignoring Buffy's core symbolism: to simplify, She's Tweety Bird. The little blond who is underestimated and kicks your ass.

I thought that the main theme of Buffy was that women are inherently helpless on their own, so they need super-powers to be able to stand on even ground with the menfolk. And when they do get these super-powers, they either whine about them for the rest of their lives (Buffy) or become homocidal maniacs (Faith, Willow.)

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2003-08-06 03:13pm

I always thought charmed was a rip off of The Craft before buffy.

Buffy is just a bad rip-off of every other vampire hunting movie in exsistance, except it has a hot teenage girl as the vampire hunter instead of a man. Admittingly it did have one or two good seasons, but I tried watching the recent ones, Gellar has no energy what so ever. I was bored out of my mind.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2003-08-06 03:25pm

Sam Or I wrote:I always thought charmed was a rip off of The Craft before buffy.

Charmed has ripped of just about everything, I remember a "Mummy" rip off So blatant it was nausiating.

Buffy is just a bad rip-off of every other vampire hunting movie in exsistance, except it has a hot teenage girl as the vampire hunter instead of a man.

Pardon me as a Laugh my ass of at this statement. I'd LOVE to see you try to prove this and not look insanly idiotic. How many Vampire Hunting Genre's have pulled Pure Demons out on multiple occasions (and not just Humanoid ones either, talking full on Tenticles and Snakey Goodness here)

Admittingly it did have one or two good seasons, but I tried watching the recent ones, Gellar has no energy what so ever. I was bored out of my mind.

The last season was not very good. It had some moments, and the Finaly fit the series, but the season as a whole was not up to standard.