Alucard vs Lasombra Elder

[Stormbringer]

The Hellsing Intittute has become aware of a Lasombra Methuselah and Integra has decided to send their best monster, Alucard. Alucard hunts him and in the end runs him down in Notre Dame cathederal in Paris.

So which vamp walks away?


(PS Alucard is fully armed and the WoD vamp has a full belly of blood)

[Agent Fisher]

yeah i one of my threads spawned another

[Connor MacLeod]

Alucard.

[Joe]

I don't know much about the other dude, but Alucard has some serious weaponry and it seems next to impossible to kill him.

[Connor MacLeod]

Alucard's guns are AMR grade at least (something on the order of a Steyr AMR) and his other abilities are just as staggering (Ep 13 for proof, though there is the manga as well.)

[Connor MacLeod]

And I daresay I am perhaps one of the most quantitatively knowledgable persons here in regards to Hellsing there is. The question is whether or not we can figure out what the capabilites of the Meth.

[Joe]

I tried to block out the last 2 episodes from my mind so I could remember the rest of the series favorably. What all does he do?

[Dark Hellion]

I am really motivated to put my money on Alucard. He is just so damn durable that the Meth could get tired and hungry before killing him.
Alucard also has some damn amazing abilities as of the end, when he is fully unlocked.
And Alucard gets coolness points for sodimizing his opponents.
So Alucard, but its a damn cool fight.

[weemadando]

The guns will prove near useless unless the Lasombra has developed an allergy to silver it will be soaking every last bit of damage.

The shadows of a nice old cathedral would be perfect for a Lasombra to play with.

Alucard or the Lasombra might take it, but goddamn its going to end badly for the entire city of Paris.

[Lord of the Farce]

The guns will prove near useless unless the Lasombra has developed an allergy to silver it will be soaking every last bit of damage.

Aren't those bullets also blessed? And has the kind of firepower to blow head sized holes straight through stone pillars?

[Cthulhu-chan]

Yes, I think it can safely be said that no matter who wins, Paris loses. And is that such a bad thing?

[Stormbringer]

The guns will prove near useless unless the Lasombra has developed an allergy to silver it will be soaking every last bit of damage.

Aren't those bullets also blessed? And has the kind of firepower to blow head sized holes straight through stone pillars?

WoD vamps don't generally have any problem with holy relics or the like.

Of course the sheer firepower will damage the Lasombra. If a shotgun can do damage to a WoD vampire, the Cassual and Jackel are going to hurt him. They do blow torso sized chunks out of stone collums after all.

[Eleas]

The Hellsing Intittute has become aware of a Lasombra Methuselah and Integra has decided to send their best monster, Alucard. Alucard hunts him and in the end runs him down in Notre Dame cathederal in Paris.

A Methuselah?

Well, the problem is I have no idea of Alucard's abilities. But If the Methuselah is in shadow (in Notre Dame this should not be hard), he could use the gimmick tactic of Shadowstep behind Alucard, then grabbing him and simply dropping him into the Abyss by the same discipline. It would depend on Alucard being able to avoid this attack, and the Methuselah having the requisite disciplines.

[Stormbringer]

A Methuselah?

One of the lower end ones. Extremely powerfuly but not yet demi-god.

Well, the problem is I have no idea of Alucard's abilities. But If the Methuselah is in shadow (in Notre Dame this should not be hard), he could use the gimmick tactic of Shadowstep behind Alucard, then grabbing him and simply dropping him into the Abyss by the same discipline. It would depend on Alucard being able to avoid this attack, and the Methuselah having the requisite disciplines.

If nothing else Alucard could simply do his nifty teleport trick or simply do that trick he does to turn into black shadow.


Alucard's observed abilities:

• He can stand sunlight, at least evening sun and in overcast.
  
  Inhuman senses and control
  
  Superhuman strength
  
  Can turn into a black shadow which he can turn non-corporeal at will
  
  Teleportation with the range to at least travel within the city of London
  
  Some fairly potent Telekensis
  
  Change himself into bats
  
  Can reconstitute his body even after being chopped to bits

[Smiling Bandit]

WoD vamps don't generally have any problem with holy relics or the like.

that depends on which game you are talking about. various holy weapons mentioned in other games hurt them just fine. I'm taking a wild (OK, I'm not taking a wild guess, its practically assured) guess, but that gun of Alucard's is so totally aggravated damage it ain't funny.

And full power Alucard is at elast on an order of a Third-Gen vampire, and maybe Cain himself.

[Connor MacLeod]

I tried to block out the last 2 episodes from my mind so I could remember the rest of the series favorably. What all does he do?

[SPOILERS below - DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN HELLSING'S LAST EP]









Well, four of the most notable examples were where during the Alucard/Incognito battle, they unleashed (either intentionally or unintentionally) a shockwave that sliced straight through the top of London's Tower Bridge in less than a second and kept on going (slicing through a couple of other things along the way I thinik.)

He also set off a number of large bells (and by large I mean like liberty-bell large) in London when he revived himself (implying long-range and fairly powerful TK, IMHO.) - the effect appeard to be implied all across London.

The most notable example I take for his abilities is where he melts down the large silver cross at the end of Ep 13, fires it at incognito, and shapes it into a giant silver stake (maybe 8-10 cm in diameter and 3-5 meters tall.) that impales vagina head through the heart and killing him. all in a matter of seconds (In other words, he melted it down in seconds, TK projected it in seconds since there is no way in hell a bullet could project that much mass on its own, formed it into a metal spear while projecting it, and cooled it down into a solid again.) Just off the top of my head, the melting incident demonstrated some MJ/ low GJ range energy handling capabilities and TK abilities capable of generating thousands or tens of thousands of newtons worth of force, nimimum.)

Lastly, when Incognito turns into the Giant Snake-flame demon, Alucard is able (After a few seconds) to use his combined strength (physical + TK I assume) to stop the snake's "charge" - given the rough dimensions I sketched out for the snake, I'd guessed the snake masses some tens of thousans of kilograms, but no less than the high thousands. Again, this suggests thousands/tens of thousands of newtons worth of TK force at a minimum.

Other (implied) capabilities are the ability to accelerate to tens/hundreds of gravities (implied from Walter and Luke's accelerative abilities in episode 6), a standard strength value at least 20-30 times greater than a human (I'd estimate at full power he pro bably has something like 50-100 times normal human strength, excluding TK) This also does not include his pyrokinetic, telekinetic, or teleportation/phasing abilities (in addition to his prodigious regeneration/immortality and shape-shifting powers.)

If you get into the manga, you get some other interesting abilities (the ability to hit targets from up to a kilometer or more away, for example, sixth sense or "danger sense", etc.)

[Connor MacLeod]

And full power Alucard is at elast on an order of a Third-Gen vampire, and maybe Cain himself.

Based on what evidence, exactly? Caine is old beyond belief, and Antes are at least ten thousand years old, minimum. Alucard is maybe 500-600 years old, from memory, even if he has been augmented.

[Connor MacLeod]

Of course the sheer firepower will damage the Lasombra. If a shotgun can do damage to a WoD vampire, the Cassual and Jackel are going to hurt him. They do blow torso sized chunks out of stone collums after all.

I thought so too, but that really depends on the quality of the stone (and from what I've gathered in discussions, the shape of the destroyed pillars is not consistent with how a gun works.)

A more reliable indicator of the Casull (and thus the Jackal's) firepower was the fact Alucard was able to use the Casull to fire on and hit a target with perfect accuracy from something like a kilometer away (IIRC the manga correctly) This is far beyond the capabilities of most rifles and all known combat pistols - in fact IIRC only Antimaterial rifles even approach that kind of range (or the requisite velocity)

[Eleas]

And full power Alucard is at elast on an order of a Third-Gen vampire, and maybe Cain himself.

Based on what evidence, exactly? Caine is old beyond belief, and Antes are at least ten thousand years old, minimum. Alucard is maybe 500-600 years old, from memory, even if he has been augmented.

Precisely. We don't even know the power of the Antedeluvians, because they're either sleeping or dead... but one of Haquim's children, Ur-Shulgi, not even an antedeluvian himself, woke up, yawned, noticed that the Tremere clan had cast a curse on his own clan, waved, and the curse was shredded.

This is the description of how to play Ur-Shulgi:

"You are the most efficient war-mage on the face of the planet, although you don't think of it in such crude terms. In fact, most of your thought processes are completely incomprehensible to anyone outside your age and power stratum."

"Ur-Shulgi doesn't move so much as flicker from point to point."

As for an Antedeluvian... they are likely to be much, much worse. Caine? A few generations older.

[Captain Cyran]

Well, Alucard practically IS a Lasombra but with guns like that, which I believe would also deal aggravated damage...Methusalah goes down hard. But it's still a fun fight to watch.

[Stormbringer]

And full power Alucard is at elast on an order of a Third-Gen vampire, and maybe Cain himself.

Based on what evidence, exactly? Caine is old beyond belief, and Antes are at least ten thousand years old, minimum. Alucard is maybe 500-600 years old, from memory, even if he has been augmented.

Actually, in the anime he talks about Romans and the early Catholic Church with a great deal of familiarity. That makes him at least 1500 years old at the minimum. And he's also an active Vampire. Not at WoD are active for their millenia long lives. Centuries spent in Topor matter little.

[Captain Cyran]

WoD vamps don't generally have any problem with holy relics or the like.

that depends on which game you are talking about. various holy weapons mentioned in other games hurt them just fine. I'm taking a wild (OK, I'm not taking a wild guess, its practically assured) guess, but that gun of Alucard's is so totally aggravated damage it ain't funny.

And full power Alucard is at elast on an order of a Third-Gen vampire, and maybe Cain himself.

WoD vampires don't have problems with holy relics unless the person using them has an amazing amount of faith.

And Alucard could possibly take out a third-gen, antidiluvians that Alucard could probably not take out include the Gangrel and the LaSombra. But Cain would kick his ass so horribly it's not even funny, hell. If there were any Second-gen left they'd be able to kick Alucard's ass as well. For Cain we're talking all disciplines you can have, and probably a few you don't know about, all being at 10 or above. Cain would beat the hell out of Alucard SO horribly.

[Connor MacLeod]

And full power Alucard is at elast on an order of a Third-Gen vampire, and maybe Cain himself.

Based on what evidence, exactly? Caine is old beyond belief, and Antes are at least ten thousand years old, minimum. Alucard is maybe 500-600 years old, from memory, even if he has been augmented.

Actually, in the anime he talks about Romans and the early Catholic Church with a great deal of familiarity. That makes him at least 1500 years old at the minimum. And he's also an active Vampire. Not at WoD are active for their millenia long lives. Centuries spent in Topor matter little.

I used to think that too, but apparently the official website (which is in Japanese, so I can't read it) placed him in the 500-600 range. Also, I dont think the DVD was too clear about him being that old (one could talk about the Romans from historical studies and such.)

On top of this, lets remember that the fucker is basically Vlad Tepes/Dracula (especially if you follow the manga), so that also sets an age limit on him.

Although to be fair, I believe Dracula in WOD was 5th Generation, so he's not that far removed.

[weemadando]

OK. A shotgun will take out a punk WoD youngling. But a Metheusalah with multiple levels of fortitude (most likely) and maxed out stamina for a super-old will completely ignore firearms damage. The explosion might cause problems as I've mentioned.

I haven't seen enough of Hellsing to truly gauge the upper limits of Alucards powers, but its not looking good for him. Not at all.

[Smiling Bandit]

Based on what evidence, exactly? Caine is old beyond belief, and Antes are at least ten thousand years old, minimum. Alucard is maybe 500-600 years old, from memory, even if he has been augmented.

-Taking into account all the posts against this me on this-

I stand by my statement. Full-power Alucard is strong enough to toast cities with a thought. Taking out Gangrel would be hard for getting through all that armor, but I believe Alucard can eventually do it. A second gen - and remember - they all died - would be tougher, but no impossible.

Cain is a major wildcard, but he;s been sleeping for a very long time and isn't quite himself. There aren't any Vampires in WoD tough enough to kill him anymore, but I'm not so sure Alucard couldn't. With no restrictions on his power, he came back from the dead (Leading to some question of whether one truly CAN kill him!) and toasted a combined ancient Vampire and superdemon combined into one. And he didn't even break a sweat doing it. That was not the limit of his power - not by far. Heck, he created a giant magic circle simply by waking up his full power. I don't think many of Cain's disciplines would even affect Alucard.

And as Alucard's age isn't as important. I don't think a strict comparison based on WoD standards is even relevant. regardless, Hellsing vamps seem to be easily killable only by certain forms of attack. You can knock one into ther next county, but killing them requires an attack to which thety are vulnerable - although Alucard can dust weak vampires with a wave of his hand [through their hearts].

In any event, Alucard appears to have some powerful sort of faith. He carries around blessed bullets and has written on his gun "Jesus Christ is in Heaven Now".

I haven't seen enough of Hellsing to truly gauge the upper limits of Alucards powers, but its not looking good for him. Not at all.

Trust me - at the end of this, he basically turns into a demigod and begins a battle with enough power to easily blow away London.