Superman Vs. Yoda

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-09-11 06:27am

Superman from Superman II, and Yoda from TPM. No rules or handicaps, who wins?

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-09-11 07:29am

Ok, well, we'd first have to define the Force as being magical in the sense that Superman is vulnerable to it. We can, for the sake of this argument, say that he is. That being established, I see no way that Yoda is going to win this. Here's why:

1)Superman can literally move at speeds of C. I know Jedis are fast, but I've never seen one move THAT fast.

2)Lightsabers, punching, kicking... Forget it, Superman is invulnerable. If Yoda has any offensive force abilities, then he would have to use them. I don't know what these are. Even if he could Force Choke, for example, this would be useless because Superman can hold his breath for long periods of time (flying through space, etc).

3) Yoda is NOT invulnerable. I'm sure his force abilities give him some defensive strengths, but one solid punch from Supes would probably do him in.

What do you think?

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2003-09-11 07:50am

Yoda could mindfuck Supes...... if Yoda truly is one of the strongest Force sensitives, then I believe he could do it.... unless Supes is immune to mindfucking.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-09-11 08:14am

Superman wrote:Ok, well, we'd first have to define the Force as being magical in the sense that Superman is vulnerable to it. We can, for the sake of this argument, say that he is. That being established, I see no way that Yoda is going to win this. Here's why:

Woah there! I said Superman from Superman II. That version does not have a vulnerability to magic.

1)Superman can literally move at speeds of C. I know Jedis are fast, but I've never seen one move THAT fast.

Speed advantage: Superman.

2)Lightsabers, punching, kicking... Forget it, Superman is invulnerable.

Hmm. To a certain point, or "absolute"?

If Yoda has any offensive force abilities, then he would have to use them. I don't know what these are. Even if he could Force Choke, for example, this would be useless because Superman can hold his breath for long periods of time (flying through space, etc).

It's not about cutting off air supply, it's about crushing the throat. And I agree, Yoda wouldn't have a chance in hell of crushing Supes's.

3) Yoda is NOT invulnerable. I'm sure his force abilities give him some defensive strengths, but one solid punch from Supes would probably do him in.

Not to mention Superman's formidable ranged attacks like heat vision, super breath, finger beam, etc etc.

What do you think?

I think Superman is gonna bitch slap Yoda back to a galaxy far far away...

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-09-11 08:54am

True. The Superman of the movies had some interesting abilites. That version had a finger tractor beam thingy, the ability to teleport himself, create illusions of himself, throw the "S" from his chest like a big sticky net... He was pretty damn powerful.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-09-11 09:04am

Okay why the fuck is this up?

1. Try to actually give some calculations to Superman's powers. His movie incarnation in number two was not the most impressive and certainly not up to comic level in the very least.

2. Prove magic has no effect on him, because in canon it does. Thus are you saying because you don't see it in the movie...it doesn't apply?

Plus, what we are going to define that the Force=Magic. The problem inherently lies with what is magic...then to connect the Force to such.

3. Superman comic moves at near c Speed. Movie Superman, especially in Superman 2 was not doing anywhere near that level.

4. Superman's invulnerability is relativly unknown in the movie, but given heat vision hurts him to presume that the lightsaber doesn't is faulty. He has a high endurance, but to give him invulnerability to lightsabers is faulty in many ways.

5. You presume that Yoda can't crush his throat given that this is once again NOT comic Superman. Look back at the New York fight, Superman is not movie c Speeds, he is not throwing the Empire state building as his toy.

6. Care to actually define his Heat vision, finger beam, or super breath(given that normal human weren't obliterate from any of these attacks and relatively little was shown of the hand beam.)?

BTW moving to Fantasy...because seriously this is both asinine(because we want to presume the weakest of Superman's will defeat Yoda because of some unfathomable reason) and unless someone cares to do what they are doing with the Warhammer thread, basically appeal to an infinite source of energy.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-09-11 09:38am

Ghost Rider wrote:Okay why the fuck is this up?

So sorry your fucking Highness, next time I'll PM you to get your approval first

1. Try to actually give some calculations to Superman's powers. His movie incarnation in number two was not the most impressive and certainly not up to comic level in the very least.

Who said anything about comics? Red herring.

Sure, numbers would be good.

2. Prove magic has no effect on him, because in canon it does.

What canon? From the comics, or movies? IMO, there power levels and abilities are different enough so that we can't interchange attributes. In other words, proving something for comic Superman won't be good enough for movie Superman, and vice-versa. That is why I made it very clear, Superman from Superman II [from this point on, Superman from Superman II I'll call S2, and comic Superman SC].

Thus are you saying because you don't see it in the movie...it doesn't apply?

Yes. See above. Although I know this is a very dodgy issue, and I'd be easily swayed the other way.

Plus, what we are going to define that the Force=Magic. The problem inherently lies with what is magic...then to connect the Force to such.

Yeah, good question. Is the Force magic based? Going by the dictionary, yes, the Force is magic.

3. Superman comic moves at near c Speed. Movie Superman, especially in Superman 2 was not doing anywhere near that level.

Actually, post crisis Superman is no where near c speed. It's a given that S2 is the same Supes as the one in Superman 1. Remember how he reversed the rotation of Earth? He was flying very close to c I'd wager.

4. Superman's invulnerability is relativly unknown in the movie, but given heat vision hurts him to presume that the lightsaber doesn't is faulty. He has a high endurance, but to give him invulnerability to lightsabers is faulty in many ways.

Yep.

5. You presume that Yoda can't crush his throat given that this is once again NOT comic Superman. Look back at the New York fight, Superman is not movie c Speeds, he is not throwing the Empire state building as his toy.

How do you counter my assumptions, especially after crying out for facts and figures? With more assumptions. Good one.

6. Care to actually define his Heat vision, finger beam, or super breath(given that normal human weren't obliterate from any of these attacks and relatively little was shown of the hand beam.)?

No, someone else can do it if they want.

BTW moving to Fantasy...because seriously this is both asinine(because we want to presume the weakest of Superman's will defeat Yoda because of some unfathomable reason)

It's not that hard to figure out that Superman is both fast and strong enough to tear Yoda's head off.

and unless someone cares to do what they are doing with the Warhammer thread, basically appeal to an infinite source of energy.

Where is this or the appeals to an infinite source of energy?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-09-11 09:59am

BoredShirtless wrote:
So sorry your fucking Highness, next time I'll PM you to get your approval first

You go do that.

Who said anything about comics? Red herring.

Sure, numbers would be good.

Gee...guess what's canon in the Superman universe,

and also nice evasion given I said not up to comic level in which is what Superman is using if he think that incarnation was moving c Speed.

What canon? From the comics, or movies? IMO, there power levels and abilities are different enough so that we can't interchange attributes. In other words, proving something for comic Superman won't be good enough for movie Superman, and vice-versa. That is why I made it very clear, Superman from Superman II [from this point on, Superman from Superman II I'll call S2, and comic Superman SC].

Then c speed is dropped, and he is of considerably less strength, and endurance.

Yes. See above. Although I know this is a very dodgy issue, and I'd be easily swayed the other way.

Then it's just that...movie.

Yeah, good question. Is the Force magic based? Going by the dictionary, yes, the Force is magic.

Then it would do wonders on Superman. And killing him would be a snap.

Actually, post crisis Superman is no where near c speed.

OWAW, Action last month, Superman this month, JLA would tend to disagree with you.

It's a given that S2 is the same Supes as the one in Superman 1. Remember how he reversed the rotation of Earth? He was flying very close to c I'd wager.

Note he had trouble catching up with a nuclear missle also?

Hardly c speed.

How do you counter my assumptions, especially after crying out for facts and figures? With more assumptions. Good one.

I figure one good turn deserves another since all you did was accept someone's words at face value.

So here's goes.

Superman , and Zod and heck all the Kryptonian in the movie were at best exhibiting low level hurricane level winds from breath(Humans weren't scattered, until after a 15-20 sec consistent blast, moving backwards maybe 10-15 mph...eventually to their knees around the 30 second point) Decent strength...possible in range of lifting 30-40 tons(depending on the antenna). Speed is relatively slow(none of them were making sonic booms while flying), as well as well the only superior effect was their reaction time, but not quite nearly the level of blocking anything in the KM/s range.

No, someone else can do it if they want.

Once again...so it's okay if the opening arguement the person going Superman wins says...he does?

It's not that hard to figure out that Superman is both fast and strong enough to tear Yoda's head off.

Like you accused me of...being rather presumptious, eh?

Where is this or the appeals to an infinite source of energy?

then I stand corrected, but literally you never countered one of Superman's arguments...amazing that you go accusing burden of proof and you accepted c speed(Comic book) and Superman would bitchslap yoda with the amount of proof that I gave...but less so.

So please...continue. This will be amusing in the least.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-11 10:05am

Superman in Superman II was temporarily knocked out of commission by a flying bus. If we're talking about that specific incarnation of Superman (whose interesting powers such as teleportation only manifested themselves in his ice castle, so they were probably illusions), he's nowhere near as tough as some of the higher-end versions.

The trick would be to figure out precisely how to hurt him, since he doesn't seem to need air so chokes won't do it. A mind-wipe would be the best form of attack.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-09-11 10:16am

I don't think we've ever seen a Jedi do any more than basic mindtricks in the movies, and even then it's been stated that they only work on weak willed people to begin with (for instance, they had no effect on Jabba the Hutt). I wouldn't describe any incarnation of the Man of Steel to be weak-minded.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-09-11 10:42am

Ghost Rider wrote:
BoredShirtless wrote:
So sorry your fucking Highness, next time I'll PM you to get your approval first
You go do that.

No, your head is big enough.

Ghost Rider wrote:
Who said anything about comics? Red herring.

Sure, numbers would be good.
Gee...guess what's canon in the Superman universe,

DC has a Canon policy? Please provide a link.

and also nice evasion given I said not up to comic level in which is what Superman is using if he think that incarnation was moving c Speed.

Ah, you leaping in your logic and me not seeing your leap, equates to me evading it eh.

Ok. So you're saying movie Superman can't move at c, and because Superman [the poster] used c as Supermans speed, he must have been refering to comic Superman. Even though, it makes more sense he just assumed [or maybe has proof?] movie Superman can move that fast, seeing how I explicitly said in my opening post that Yoda is fighting movie Superman, not comic. Ever heard of Occam's Razor? But we can clear this one up anyway, assuming Superman [the poster] is reading this.

What canon? From the comics, or movies? IMO, there power levels and abilities are different enough so that we can't interchange attributes. In other words, proving something for comic Superman won't be good enough for movie Superman, and vice-versa. That is why I made it very clear, Superman from Superman II [from this point on, Superman from Superman II I'll call S2, and comic Superman SC].
Then c speed is dropped, and he is of considerably less strength, and endurance.

Why is c dropped? He was approaching c when he reversed Earth's rotation at the end of Superman 1. Why are you ignoring this example?

Yes. See above. Although I know this is a very dodgy issue, and I'd be easily swayed the other way.
Then it's just that...movie.

See first post in thread, it was always movie Superman.

Yeah, good question. Is the Force magic based? Going by the dictionary, yes, the Force is magic.
Then it would do wonders on Superman. And killing him would be a snap.

Really? How?

Actually, post crisis Superman is no where near c speed.
OWAW, Action last month, Superman this month, JLA would tend to disagree with you.

Ok. It's been about 9 years since I picked up a Superman comic.

It's a given that S2 is the same Supes as the one in Superman 1. Remember how he reversed the rotation of Earth? He was flying very close to c I'd wager.
Note he had trouble catching up with a nuclear missle also?

Hardly c speed.

Was it just a speed thing, or are there other variables? Like he didn't know exactly where it was; the flame from the engine may have blinded him a little; he didn't want to overshot the missle and have to loop back; overshoting the missle may cause the wake of his passage to fuck with the missles flight path; etc etc.

The fact is, he has been clocked at close to c. So that's what he can do. Whether he can do that against Yoda, is still up in the air.

How do you counter my assumptions, especially after crying out for facts and figures? With more assumptions. Good one.
I figure one good turn deserves another since all you did was accept someone's words at face value.

Ah, so you believe that two wrongs make a right eh.

So here's goes.

Superman , and Zod and heck all the Kryptonian in the movie were at best exhibiting low level hurricane level winds from breath(Humans weren't scattered, until after a 15-20 sec consistent blast, moving backwards maybe 10-15 mph...eventually to their knees around the 30 second point) Decent strength...possible in range of lifting 30-40 tons(depending on the antenna). Speed is relatively slow(none of them were making sonic booms while flying), as well as well the only superior effect was their reaction time, but not quite nearly the level of blocking anything in the KM/s range.

OK, these all look good to me. So would they be enough then?

No, someone else can do it if they want.
Once again...so it's okay if the opening arguement the person going Superman wins says...he does?

What? Why don't you properly use punctuation in your posts?

It's not that hard to figure out that Superman is both fast and strong enough to tear Yoda's head off.
Like you accused me of...being rather presumptious, eh?

Nope. You're the one who wanted a scientific analysis. I was happy with a laid back look at the fight.

Where is this or the appeals to an infinite source of energy?
then I stand corrected, but literally you never countered one of Superman's arguments...amazing that you go accusing burden of proof and you accepted c speed(Comic book) and Superman would bitchslap yoda with the amount of proof that I gave...but less so.

So please...continue. This will be amusing in the least.

You got that right.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-09-11 11:04am

I see so your whole point was to see who could prove to you who would win.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-09-11 11:07am

My whole point was to see if there was a clear winner without crunching numbers. But if that isn't possible, then I'll just lurk if it goes any deeper.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-09-11 11:10am

Movie vs...no because he hasn't shown anything that goes truly above and beyond Yoda.

Comic vs...yes.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2003-09-11 12:54pm

That was so much nicer than name calling....but since he did explicitly state move Sup, your comic point is moot.

*SNIPE*

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-09-11 01:02pm

Yes, because me-tooing is so much better way of debating.

So please don't make a mountain out of molehill, because when I asked why he didn't define a winner from his first post, he explained why.

Thus you have a point?

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2003-09-11 01:41pm

All irrelevant, for both Yoda and the son of Jor-El shall...

KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!

I can't believe it's taken this long for someone to say this in a Superman II thread...

Smiling Bandit · Post by **Smiling Bandit** » 2003-09-11 02:12pm

Wait a second: does this count eh first movie, or just the second?

Kon_El · Post by **Kon_El** » 2003-09-11 03:31pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
Note he had trouble catching up with a nuclear missle also?

Hardly c speed.

Could have somthing to do with the fact that he had been chained to a large chunk of kryptonite just before that? That stuff does tend to leave him weak for a while.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-11 11:51pm

Precisely why are we assuming that Superman circa "Superman II" is not weak-minded? Need I remind everyone that he blindly walked into combat with three like-powered beings in a crowded area and had no particular battle plan whatsoever except to go macho on them?

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2003-09-12 12:47am

Theres a differance between stupid and weak minded, Mr. Wong. Darkstar is proof enough.
As for movie supes, I don't think he can take it. He isn't that fast, especially compared with what we have seen jedi do, he isn't that invulnerable, and I don't think he can avoid/survive getting hit with a lightsaber. Of course, without the movie on hand I am going off memory alone. Someone with the DVD of supes could probably give hard numbers, but i don't remember any instances of incredibly impressive stunts.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-09-12 01:17am

Gil Hamilton wrote:I don't think we've ever seen a Jedi do any more than basic mindtricks in the movies, and even then it's been stated that they only work on weak willed people to begin with (for instance, they had no effect on Jabba the Hutt). I wouldn't describe any incarnation of the Man of Steel to be weak-minded.

Why are you talking about Stalin?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-12 01:21am

Dark Hellion wrote:Theres a differance between stupid and weak minded, Mr. Wong. Darkstar is proof enough.

No, Darkstar is strong-willed, but not strong-minded. If he were, he would not conduct such a desperate campaign in support of a Quixotic and ultimately ridiculous goal.

As for movie supes, I don't think he can take it. He isn't that fast, especially compared with what we have seen jedi do, he isn't that invulnerable, and I don't think he can avoid/survive getting hit with a lightsaber. Of course, without the movie on hand I am going off memory alone. Someone with the DVD of supes could probably give hard numbers, but i don't remember any instances of incredibly impressive stunts.

I just remember him being briefly knocked out by a bus, which doesn't exactly speak volumes for his abilities in that movie.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-09-12 06:14am

One thing I find amazing about sci-fi debates on message boards is that you find people who describe a person being briefly knocked out after being hit with a flying bus, but rather then saying that it demonstrates incredible durability, shrug it off as weak. I know that it is weak compared to comic book Superman, but it just strikes me as perservely funny that in any other situation, that would be considered a really really amazing event.

But, really, what would happen if we hit Yoda with the same flying bus? He'd be a little green greasemark, most likely. And if anyone can hit Yoda with a giant object, it's Superman. I seem to remember in the first Superman movie (granted, it's been a while), he froze a moderately sized lake with his freeze breath, picked it up, and flew to Metropolis with it. That had to be really freaking heavy. Besides, it's even more impressive that Superman can suck all that heat out of a lake and disperse it with no effects to his local environment. What stops him from just turning Yoda into a muppet-cicle? It's not like Yoda can dodge it. Or his heat ray eyes? Superman needs only glare at him and Yoda will be cooked like a Degobah sausage, even if Yoda dodges, Superman needs only track him with his eyes, something that wouldn't be beyond the power of our favorite Kryptonian.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-09-12 06:26am

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:All irrelevant, for both Yoda and the son of Jor-El shall...

KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!

I can't believe it's taken this long for someone to say this in a Superman II thread...

How good was Terence Stamp? Come to me, Superman! I defy you! Come and kneel before Zod! ZOD!!!!!

And because I think this poster rocks: