Moderator: NecronLord
Cleaning droid. Watch the Doctor Who arc: Paradise Towers or play Paranoia to see why.JediNeophyte wrote:Here's a series of matchups of what I like to call "Superunits", things that are so incredibly weak, expendable, and worthless that they become massively powerful in their own right :)
Matchup #1:
(WH40K)An Imperial Guardsman, armed with a lasgun
VERSUS
(SW)An Imperial Cleaning Droid, armed with its characteristic set of beeps?
Mech. Just because.Matchup #2:
(WH40K)A Black Templar Neophyte (must be pronounced a very certain way or he does not receive so-called "Superunit" powers)
VERSUS
(BattleTech)A clan Firemoth 'mech?
A ratling, because they don't have the precedent of just goddamn dying.Matchup #3:
(ST)A Redshirt, armed with a SI phasor
VERSUS
(WH40K)A ratling sniper?
You'd be surpised, ratlings have an amazing tendency to push up daisies...A ratling, because they don't have the precedent of just goddamn dying.
I've noticed. Note that he neglects to mention the true "superunits" of the 40K-verse. Snotlings, Grots, Cultists, and so on...willburns84 wrote:Methinks JediNeophyte has had some bitter experiences both against and with the Imperial Guard in 40K...
Ratlings have their uses. It's just a matter of knowing when to use them and when to use something else. Oh, and you're wrong about their hit chance. Sniper rifles ALWAYS hit on a 2+, which means only a roll of 1 is a miss. 83% hit rate, that's the best you can get in the game, period. That Ratlings "can't shoot for shit" is total bullshit. They're just as good a shot as any other sniper unit in the game, and they always wound on a 4+, regardless of toughness.I don't use Ratling snipers, despite their 66% hit chance. Me? I prefer to grind my enemies under the treads of my tanks. Give me an armored company any day...
JediNeophyte wrote:Hotfoot, I was being cynical about the fact that my all my snipers (especially my vindicare assassin) seem to be cursed, and roll 1s to hit contantly. Or a 1,2, or 3 to wound. Or, if I'm using a hellfire round, a 1 to wound. Or I'm fighting Space Marines, which get an armor save which they always seem to make.
Not as smooth or subtle as a Vindicare, but provides that great boot to the head that Guard need to throw at opponents. 
You can tell how much I use sniper rifles, eh? ...you use an assassin? *SMACK*JediNeophyte wrote:Hotfoot, I was being cynical about the fact that my all my snipers (especially my vindicare assassin) seem to be cursed, and roll 1s to hit contantly. Or a 1,2, or 3 to wound. Or, if I'm using a hellfire round, a 1 to wound. Or I'm fighting Space Marines, which get an armor save which they always seem to make.
*SMACK*willburns84 wrote:JediNeophyte wrote:Hotfoot, I was being cynical about the fact that my all my snipers (especially my vindicare assassin) seem to be cursed, and roll 1s to hit contantly. Or a 1,2, or 3 to wound. Or, if I'm using a hellfire round, a 1 to wound. Or I'm fighting Space Marines, which get an armor save which they always seem to make.
Ah, well, there's your problem. You use a Vindicare assassin. Instead you should whip out an Eversor.
I don't use them all that much myself, but, should the situation arise, they can be quite the lifesaver. Take, for example, an Infiltration Mission, where any gunfire sets off the alarm. Any gunfire except for sniper rifles, that is...Ah, yes. Right. Sorry. You can tell how much I use sniper rifles, eh?
Meanwhile there are Ogryns, Rough Riders, Catachan Jungle Fighters, Sentinels....willburns84 wrote:You know *why* have an Eversor? Because there's always going to be a need for an assault specialist - someone to go toe to toe with those enemy assault troops and hold them off. I support him with officers and priests with power weapons because my primary enemies are Chaos lovers who use Chosen, Possessed, demons, berserkers, and Raptors, not to mention the odd daemon prince to get me into HTH.
One man's "interesting" is another man's "where the hell am I going to find room to set up in here?"Shoot them all down before they get into HTH? You've got to be kidding me. Firstly we use enough terrain to make things interesting.
If you don't outnumber marines by at least 2:1, something is terribly, terribly wrong. Generally speaking you should outnumber them 3:1 or more.And secondly there aren't enough good weapons to kill them before they get to me. The comic is funny but I really don't have forty guardsmen to a space marine, or even twenty, or even ten! The dice rolls are just not in my favor. Of say 40 shots with lasguns, 20 will hit. Of those 20, say seven will wound (straight odds), of those seven wounds, only two or three marines will die (straight odds again).
Yes, TANKS are a critical part to the guard army, but they are "all the eggs in one basket", and are thus often choice targets for the enemy. Destroy a Leman Russ Exterminator, and in one blow you've lost twin-linked autocannons, a lascannon and two bolters, or three bolters. Just from a lucky lascannon strike. It's like losing 1.6 Heavy Weapons teams in one shot, and it costs more. Sure, it can be worth it if employed correctly, but that's what you've got to consider in an army.Again. TANKS. And when I can't get tanks, back up my squads of infantry with power weapon armed officers, preachers, and assassins.
Chimera:willburns84 wrote:And of course my above post assumes only standard power armor, not the famous Terminator armor that the enemy is wearing.
And yes, my guardsmen have heavy weapons and assault weapons supporting them, but you know, the Codex won't allow high enough numbers of those weapons for me to prevent Chaos bullyboys from getting in close with me to @*(##@*( me in HTH.
Multiple wounds, high toughness. I'll take that over 2+ armor saves any day, thank you.willburns84 wrote:Ogryns - Been there. Done that. Carved to pieces.
Gee, with 9" trots, you think the can get close enough? :rolleyes:Rough Riders - Guardsmen that can run away very quickly. Hunting lances good for only one shot and that's assuming they can get close enough to take that shot.
You can still get some of their units.Catachan Jungle Fighters - don't have that Codex. Don't use them for fluff reasons in any event.
You need to get some of the other Imperial Codexs, my friend. Like the Catachan Sentinels with chainsaws which are actually pretty good in hand-to-hand.Sentinels - Worse armor than even Chimeras. Bolters can glance from any direction. Open topped. One weapon destroyed result and disarmed. Twenty points to make it close topped too expensive.
Apparently not, if you find yourself needing more.I take as many heavy and assault weapons as possible.
Don't need to hit can hit multiple targets with one attack special properties of the hellhound flamer, etc. etc.What good are flamers? Negate cover saves? Marine armor saves are better than *any* cover save (versus AP4 shots or worse). If I can flame marine units, I'm too (*#@*(#@*(#@ close already. Sure, I hit automatically. I *might* wound, and then they'll just save. Assault them to deny them that bonus attack? Sure, but then I've already thrown away one squad of troops. The marines eat through them, then will be 3" closer to my lines when the consolidate and then it will be their turn to move, shoot, and then assault.
Boy, just no pleasing you, is there? Which is better, a Heavy Bolter that can't hit a target 12" away because it's in cover, or a mortar that can hit a target up to 48" away without needing line of sight and hit multiple targets, forcing them to take a morale check or be pinned on the off chance one of the marines fails their armor save? Gee, I wonder....Mortars aren't much use, either in my experience. S4, AP6. Here come the armor saves.
It's called a calculated risk. If you can't kill them before they get to you, you're as good as dead anyway. Chances are your opponent won't be expecting it and will be thrown off gaurd enough to have to try and adjust their plan of attack on the fly. Yes, making the vehicle open-topped is potentially dangerous, but if need be you can always pop smoke and close it up again next turn. And what the hell are you using basilisks for? Minimum range is 36" for their indirect fire mode, and if you're worried about the enemy getting in close, they're practically useless once the enemy gets inside your field of fire unless you have them on the extreme flanks of your forces, in which case they're either frightfully exposed or your army's spread so thin to cover them it's small wonder a marine force can punch right through.You want me to make my Chimera open topped? No. Under no circumstances is that going to happen. I have no intention of making those things more fragile than they are already. The only things that are open topped are my basilisks and those I keep out of the line of fire.
Yes, that works too. However, jungle fighting is hardly a speciality of an armored company, but hey, whatever floats your boat, I guess.Again. Armored Company. Several Leman Russ, supported by platoons of mech infantry and basilisks... Ordnance. Of course in an Armored Company I don't have an assassin, but then, with Armored Company, I don't need one.
Jungle, Urban Jungle, whatever. Close-range fighting is not for tanks.willburns84 wrote:[SNIP]
And what the hell are you using basilisks for? Minimum range is 36" for their indirect fire mode...
[END SNIP]
Brief reply before I head off to sleep... The 40K battles I fight are usually on 5' x 10' tables that use the whole of the table. I have enough basilisks that I can hit most anything I need to on the board no matter my placement of said artillery. And we don't use jungle. Period. Ever. We use lots of necromunda terrain, however...
More from me later... If I remember.
