Mongols versus Mordor

[Pablo Sanchez]

Scenario A (the specific one):

Through arcane magics, Sauron transports his dark armies to the area of Khwarezm, circa 1223. They immediately set to ravaging the territory. The reigning authority in the area, the Mongols, must respond immediately. Unfortunately, they can raise only 30,000 horsemen for the first wave; reinforcements will arrive within two weeks amounting to 50,000 horsemen and 100,000 conscripted auxilliaries. Their commander is

Mordor has an army of indeterminate size, between 100,000 and 200,000, of the compositions seen in the movies (i.e., mainly orcs with a mixture of weapons, plus some trolls).

Scenario B:

Gondor and surrounding territories is replaced by the Mongol Empire, ca. 1250.

[HemlockGrey]

Considering the devestation that a few thousand Rohirrm were able to wreck, the Mongol Hordes do glorious battle with Mordor and stand a chance of winning.

[Sea Skimmer]

The Mongols win with heavy losses.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Mongols charge up to orcs, fire bows ride away. The orcs lack the mobility, however they have a nice numerical advantage.

I still give it to Temunjin's boys, with heavy losses

lower losses if Bortei takes to the field besides her husband....

[Master of Ossus]

I think the Mongol mobility allows them to win.

[Pablo Sanchez]

Does Mordor have any cavalry?

[Raxmei]

Does Mordor have any cavalry?

They have the Nine, but I don't recall any other mention of horses.

[Pablo Sanchez]

Then how were they ever a real military threat? If the other people of Middle Earth could raise any sort of cavalry force, then they'd simply cut the Orcs apart.

[spongyblue]

Some orcs ride on Wargs, which are like really big wolf/hyena creatures. Nasty in their own right. The only problem is Orcs can have a tough time controlling them.

[Raxmei]

I think their Easterling allies might have had cavalry too.

[starfury]

don't the haradin forces had elephants as parts of their military, they are allied to mordor too.

[spongyblue]

The Oliphants. There like elephants except bigger. I always wanted to know more about the Harad and the Easternlings. Always an Enigma to me.

[The Yosemite Bear]

The easterlings can also shapeshift.

[Shadow WarChief]

The easterlings can also shapeshift.

What the hell? Where do we see this?

But anyways, the mounted forces of Mordor are comprised of:

Wargs -native to Middle Earth(which we will see the forces of Isengard using in the next movie)

Oliphants -from the Haradrim (Think of a bull elephant in must on steroids)

Horses -from the Haradrim

However, it should be noted that the main horse-power of Middle Earth is Rohan. In fact, it was specifically stated that Mordor was ONLY lacking in Horsemen. This is the reason why Mordor's siege of Minas Tirith was broken by the Rohirim.

Of course, to quote Denethor, the force that assailed Minas Tirith "Was a mere finger of his malice"

The horses can only take them so far before they're overwhelmed by sheer numbers....

However, if the Mongols have the number of horses as detailed in the first post, then they stampede over the orcs with little to now casualties. Trolls will cause the most casualties, while the Nazgul would definately cause some Mongols to desert.

Mordor might win, but I'm putting my money on the Mongols.

[The Yosemite Bear]

The easterlings can also shapeshift.

What the hell? Where do we see this?

Lost Tales, and Unfinished Tales. The Easterlings were alsocalled werewolves. A small number of the Easterlings didn't follow Melcor and instead became Werebears (Beorn in the Hobbit)

[The Yosemite Bear]

The full JRRT appearances of Shapeshifting Easterlings would be Hobbit (Beorn the last Cheiftian of the Easterlings that would not follow Melcor), and Silmirillion where they are also called werewolves.