human wanking syndrome - another sci fi brain bug?

[McC]

Beyond the idea of 'humans are uber' or 'humans will be uber' is the idea that 'humans are good at everything.' Star Trek is an obvious guilty example, when one compares humans and Vulcans. Vulcans are focused on being logical, but humans are 'more varied' in their ability, and thus Vulcans seem diminished compared to humans. Of course, between the time that I had the idea to write this post and then actually sitting down to write it, I forgot all the other examples I had, but I've seen this countless times in many sci-fi series. While admittedly not even remotely related to canon, the SWRPG grants humans additional skill points over other races, representing humans' versatility in learning things. WTF? Why do we automatically assume we'll be the most versatile, the most varied, etc?

[Captain Cyran]

Then you have your Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, where humans are really portrayed as backwater idjits, the looneys of the galaxy, whose planet gets in the way of civil construction projects.

I was wondering when someone would mention HGttG. Yeah, that book series slams on humanity and Earth at every turn, it can get a bit tiring at times, but in general you really get the idea of "Damn... we suck..."

Spoiler

Hell, Adams even goes so far as to have us evolve from the useless/moronic members of another society that were removed from their world.

[Xon]

This brain bug ticks me off because it smacks of being based on an ego trip rather than 'realism' (in universe).

On a related note I've noticed that in these same series humanity is portrayed as a sort of underdog that goes from a piddly backwater non-entity to a major player thanks to the intervention of some outside force and, usually, our own ingenuity. This happened in Babylon 5 with help from the Centauri, in Star Trek with help from the Vulcans and in Stargate SG-1, with the enslavement of the Goa'uld and the help of the Asgard.

In Stargate, humans are important. It has an Ancient branch of humanity which were the Gate biulders.

[Dalton]

This brain bug ticks me off because it smacks of being based on an ego trip rather than 'realism' (in universe).

On a related note I've noticed that in these same series humanity is portrayed as a sort of underdog that goes from a piddly backwater non-entity to a major player thanks to the intervention of some outside force and, usually, our own ingenuity. This happened in Babylon 5 with help from the Centauri, in Star Trek with help from the Vulcans and in Stargate SG-1, with the enslavement of the Goa'uld and the help of the Asgard.

In Stargate, humans are important. It has an Ancient branch of humanity which were the Gate biulders.

Yes, true. But that was an earlier branch of humans. The current incarnation had the underdog thing going for them, so it can be both.

[fgalkin]

I have seen in various sci fi what I am starting to term the human wanking syndrome.

Essentially it goes along the lines of given time humans would become a super dooper powerful civilisation more powerful than the top dogs of that particular sci fi universe.

examples can be found in

1) Marvel comics (not exactly pure sci fi) - where humans are predicted to eventually 'evolve' into God like beings with the mental powers to dominate the whole universe

That's Marvel for ya.

2) Star Trek - Q stating to Riker that given time humans may surpass the Q because of our drive to explore new things.

Well, considering how stupid all the other Trek races are, that is a distinct possibility

3) Doctor Who - novels showing that the Time Lords (Doctor Who's people who are one of the uber powers of the universe with an almost complete monopoly on time travel) predict that eventually humans will invent better time travel machines than them near the end of the universe

4) Babylon 5 - humans do 'evolve' into energy beings (however that one works) and supposedly takes over the role of Vorlons.

As do the Minbari and a shitload of other races, starting with the Vorlons themselves. That's hardly human wanking.

This brain bug ticks me off because it smacks of being based on an ego trip rather than 'realism' (in universe).

Like other people siad, there is a shitload of universes where the exact opposite happens.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Stofsk]

While admittedly not even remotely related to canon, the SWRPG grants humans additional skill points over other races, representing humans' versatility in learning things. WTF? Why do we automatically assume we'll be the most versatile, the most varied, etc?

Because most of the of the other aliens get a special racial ability for their use, such as low-light or darkvision, and the humans don't get much beyond a couple of free skillpoints and feats. It's an issue of game balance. Some aliens get BONUSES to skills, or a bonus feat (Duros get the 'Spacer' feat free, which is equivalent to a human getting a free feat, but has to choose from the list), in addition to getting other special abilities.

In-universe, you could try to rationalise it as being a reflection of humanity's society and value system, which prizes education, compared with say the Trandoshans, who value hunting and personal combat. The Duros who value space travel and navigation (hence the obligatory 'spacer' feat for free).

The SW RPG has a few boners in there. Wookiees get phenomenal strength, for example, but get penalties for dexterity, wisdom, and charisma (though thankfully not intelligence). Some things are just a matter of game balance.

[HemlockGrey]

What actually bugs me is that in a lot of sci-fi the humans start out lower on the food chain than pretty much everyone else but then catch up later. In my personal universe, for which I am currently plotting out a chain of stories, the central human empire is and has always been the most powerful force in the galaxy, and they've colonized, exterminated, or otherwise keep in check all the threats to their power. None of this "Oh, we start out with primitive rockets and end up with Death Stars" nonsense.

[Symmetry]

Another side of this same situation is you never see a series where humans are the villains either. Just once i'd love to see some aliens fighting the facist Terran Empire or something, just to mix things up.

Thats pretty much how B5 and StarWars worked. In B5 humans were the young race most closely alligned with the shadows, and the good guys were mostly aliens (though they had human leadership). In Star Wars the evil empire is all human, and the good rebellion has a large alien contingent.

[Styphon]

What actually bugs me is that in a lot of sci-fi the humans start out lower on the food chain than pretty much everyone else but then catch up later. In my personal universe, for which I am currently plotting out a chain of stories, the central human empire is and has always been the most powerful force in the galaxy, and they've colonized, exterminated, or otherwise keep in check all the threats to their power. None of this "Oh, we start out with primitive rockets and end up with Death Stars" nonsense.

unless your universe has time flowing in a loop, they still have to have started at low tech--hell no tech--at some point, even if it's "off-screen."

[Stofsk]

4) Babylon 5 - humans do 'evolve' into energy beings (however that one works) and supposedly takes over the role of Vorlons.

As do the Minbari and a shitload of other races, starting with the Vorlons themselves. That's hardly human wanking.

Why is it assumed that humans 'evolve' into ANGELS (er, energy beings), and not actually caused it themselves?

Was it stated somewhere that humans evolved or will evolve into the Deconstruction of Falling Stars humans? The only thing I can think of is Mind War, and that was definitely not evolution, but caused by humans and psi.

[Stofsk]

What actually bugs me is that in a lot of sci-fi the humans start out lower on the food chain than pretty much everyone else but then catch up later. In my personal universe, for which I am currently plotting out a chain of stories, the central human empire is and has always been the most powerful force in the galaxy, and they've colonized, exterminated, or otherwise keep in check all the threats to their power. None of this "Oh, we start out with primitive rockets and end up with Death Stars" nonsense.

I know what you mean. I prefer to have a scifi setting wherein the Humans are on a single level, and they may have few if any contemporaries, but the majority of sapient aliens they meet are either running around throwing stones at their dinner and living in caves, or busy constructing a ringworld and telling the Capt. Kork of the starship USS Knockoff to leave them alone.

[Frank Hipper]

Another side of this same situation is you never see a series where humans are the villains either. Just once i'd love to see some aliens fighting the facist Terran Empire or something, just to mix things up.

In Enemy Mine the humans are very much the bad guys.

[Agent Fisher]

Thats why I like HALO. Sure maybe humans are the descendants(sp?) of the forerunners, but they are getting their ass kicked by the Covenant.

[HemlockGrey]

unless your universe has time flowing in a loop, they still have to have started at low tech--hell no tech--at some point, even if it's "off-screen."

Yeah, but they are consistantly higher tech and maintain a stronger military force than any other sapient race or enemy empire.

[Symmetry]

Why is it assumed that humans 'evolve' into ANGELS (er, energy beings), and not actually caused it themselves?

I assumed they meant that we evolved in the Lamarkian (technological) sense rather than the Darwinian one.

[Imperial Overlord]

William Barton's books are a notable exception to human wanking, but they are damned depressing. Perpetual enslavement and grovelling to be permitted to survive may make interesting reading material but it isn't exactly uplifting material.

[Kuja]

In Enemy Mine the humans are very much the bad guys.

That certainly wasn't the impression I got. It looked to me like humans were decent enough and so were the Drac, they went to war because of misunderstandings (not too improbable). I mean, yes, we saw som asshole humans, but their society as a whole didn't strike me as any better or worse than today's.

[fgalkin]

unless your universe has time flowing in a loop, they still have to have started at low tech--hell no tech--at some point, even if it's "off-screen."

Yeah, but they are consistantly higher tech and maintain a stronger military force than any other sapient race or enemy empire.

So, its like the Culture but even moreso and with humans?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Frank Hipper]

In Enemy Mine the humans are very much the bad guys.

That certainly wasn't the impression I got. It looked to me like humans were decent enough and so were the Drac, they went to war because of misunderstandings (not too improbable). I mean, yes, we saw som asshole humans, but their society as a whole didn't strike me as any better or worse than today's.

Earth's war with the Drac was a territorial dispute over space that the Drac had claimed long before humans ever entered space.
The human racist undertones to the whole thing are very much a motivating factor, too.
That's from the book, however...

[Lusankya]

Well, in Sci-fi there's also the situation of the writers knowing that humans are around, and knowing what humans are like, wheras other sci-fi species in their stories probably don't exist and can only exist as a rudimentary idea in their creators' minds. Having humans as the dominant species removes quite a few problems for the writers, since it would be hard to create several members of an alien species, give them unique traits, but still have them seem undeniably different in the same way and then carry that through an entire book. Plus, if you're making a movie/tv show, it's much cheaper to have a majority of your characters human or at least humanoid, than to create new and wacky aliens. (take zhaan, for example. I heard that she was supposed to look much different, but they couldn't afford it so they just made her humanoid.)

Besides, face it, humans are xenophobic, power-hungry expansionists. How likely is it for a large alien enclave to be set up on earth with our permission? Do you doubt that we'd begin to worry that the aliens would begin to outnumber us on our own planet? Do you doubt that there will be anti-alien groups in the future to rival or surpass racist groups today? If we can, I believe most human civilisations will do what they can to be the dominant race in whatever sphere of space they define as being their own territory. I don't see it being much different from Earth's colonial period.

[Imperial Overlord]

The Dread Empire Falls series by Walter John Williams (it is really good BTW) also doesn't have uber humans. We were conquered a long time ago and integrated into their empire which is called the Praxis. The aliens had an ideology of brining a kind of order to the universe and nobody gets to say no.

The series opens with the impending death of the last member of the master race. Their first client species (not us) has gotten the idea they should inherit the reins of power and is plotting a coup upon the last masters death. It doesn't quite work out and the series is about the civil war.

[SAMAS]

Actually, I would say the "Chosen Ones" Mentality is more of a General Brain Bug than just Sci-Fi. The whole: "We are destined to rule the planet/cosmos because our God(s) favor us over everyone else in the world/universe." thing. It also happens in politics, religion, and even dumber things.

The problem with the real-life examples is that all too often a: "That means we can freely conquer/dominate/kill/rape/pillage/cheat/exploit/rape/enslave everybody else" is tacked onto the end of it.

[Lusankya]

The problem with the real-life examples is that all too often a: "That means we can freely conquer/dominate/kill/rape/pillage/cheat/exploit/rape/enslave everybody else" is tacked onto the end of it.

It's not more a "can", I believe as a "will if we get the chance to". Maybe the Modern West won't do it, but can you be sure that Chinese or the Russians holding back on colonising a planet just because there's a stone age civilisation there? And perhaps America will move into those places and claim them as protectorates on "humanitarian" grounds. Even if we let them keep their sovereignty, the echoes of himan civilisation will still be there culturally. They'll probably use English as a flight language, as we do, they may adapt their writing and numerical systems from ours if they haven't developed their own yet, as the dominant civilisation, our calendar and measurement system will become the standard for them as well as us...

It's a different matter if the aliens are more technologically advanced than us, but that's a different matter.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

In the Strykerverse, Humans have only recently hit the space, qnd only because the Fraal(Greys) decided that Humans needed to be protected after one Illithis Colonial cruiser nearly succeeded in enslaving Man. They are one of the smaller factions of an alliance, and only have power because they border directly on the massive Illithid Empire, and thus must be a buffer and not piss the Illithids off at all, and because of technology left on Mars and Antarctica by other aliens millions of years ago that may put Humans ahead in the technology race. However, for now, they must tread lightly, as skirmishes between provinces are still common.

In the Noahverse, the bright star of Humanity and its empire fell a hundred years ago, and the two galaxies are split into a hundred fractious kingdoms led by aggressive warlords. Everything's gone to shit.

[Kuja]

Earth's war with the Drac was a territorial dispute over space that the Drac had claimed long before humans ever entered space.
The human racist undertones to the whole thing are very much a motivating factor, too.
That's from the book, however...

You know, I kind of figured you were talking about a book version. Well, I'll see if I can find it.