Force Sub: Operation Market Garden Sep 1944: A Mech too Far!

[Invader ZIm]

Consider the following scenario,

Its September 1944 and the Allies (British, German and Polish) are going to initate the largest airborne assualt in History. The assualt will come in two parts the 1st, code named MARKET will place Airborne troops into enemy held territory in Holland with the objective of sezing several bridges. The 2nd Phase GARDEN, will consist of the 30th Army Corps and the 2nd British Army advacning from Belgium into Holland across the captured bridges. By doing so the Allies can avoid having to fight through the hevily fortified Siegfried, isolate enemy troops in Holland and provide Allied forces with a spearhead directly into Germany.

For this scenario the following rules and assumptions are in effect:

1) All Allied forces and units that were involved in both Phases of MARKET and GARDEN will participate as they were on September 17th 1944.

i) All Allied Airborne units will be out fitted with the same equipment as they possesed for MARKET. Airborne dropsites remain the same as the historical counter parts.

ii) Allied Ground units will conform to exactly the same composition and position that existed historically for GARDEN.

2) German forces will be subsituted as follows

i) The II SS Panzer Corps as present in the battle made up of the 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions, will have their Armor replaced on a one to one basis with Mechs (Zakus). IFV's and assualt guns (STUG's) WILL NOT be replaced by Mecha.

ii) All other German forces remain as they were in both location and equipment as given on September 17th 1944.


Note in this encounter the Allies are aware of the existance of Mechs not that they will specifically going to be up against them this time. In fact Allied intelligence does not know that elements of the II SS Panzer Corps are near Arnhem.

Which leads to the next set of assuptions:

1) The Germans (including Mech Units) are not able to prevent the Allied Airborn troops from at least landing units at the historical drop zones. Especially the British 1st AB Division near Arnhem.

2) Mechs are NOT initally present at any of the Allied Landing Zones or at the boarder to face the 30th Corps or 2nd Army. They can begin to move as their Historical counter parts on or about the 18th of September.

3) German Fighter/Bomber Activity is MINIMAL or nonexistant and constrained to historical units only.

4) The Germans will be able to engineer the collapse of only one of the Target bridges expet Arnhem or Nijmegen.

Now this scenario is far from baised against Mechs. They are facing Infantry for a prolonged period of time until Allied Armor units can move up to supporting positions. Additionally the Germans may blow up one of the lesser river crossings and force the Allies to build Bailey Bridges. They are also not facing modern armored units when the 30th Corps and 2nd Army do show up.

We have seen the opinions of Tankers and Mech Heads when it come to a show down between Armor and Mechs. And so far the Tankers have presented a more compelling supported case that the Mechs would loose in combat with Modern Armor on open ground. Mech Heads have always stated that "Mechs are great in Urban environments"....

...Now is the chance to prove it.

The fighting around Arnhem and some other notable battle fields of MARKET GARDEN, was some of the most intense Urban combat in the 20th century next to Stalingrad. If Mechs are as good as they are proported to be then they should perform better than the II SS Panzer Corps did during Market Garden.

[MKSheppard]

From lack of spare parts, and lubricants.....

Meanwhile, the poor bloody old StuGs have to do all the
work.....again.

[Mr Bean]

In those few hours though.... Shep remeber how little anti-tank support the Troops had with them when they touched down.... .50Cal MG's are pretty useless aginst them and Bazoka's are also iffy, Sure they grind down but in those few hours that they are running


Probably looks like a Godzilla movie as to percerve ammo they just smash buildings down and step on troopers

[MKSheppard]

In those few hours though.... Shep remeber how little anti-tank support the Troops had with them when they touched down....

II SS Pz Corps is in no good shape either.....remember they had been
withdrawn to Arnheim for rest and refitting after the battles of Normandy...

[Mr Bean]

II SS Pz Corps is in no good shape either.....remember they had been
withdrawn to Arnheim for rest and refitting after the battles of Normandy...

If its a force subsituion then should the troops not be basicly fresh? Unless we want to assume same physical readyness we have to say they will do better than the II SS Pz Corps who were as you noted on basicly extended leave

[MKSheppard]

Unless we want to assume same physical readyness we have to say they will do better than the II SS Pz Corps who were as you noted on basicly extended leave

This is a 1:1 replacement basis for II SS Pz Corps' Tanks?

I don't think they were quite that Tank heavy after Normandy and
barely escaping the Falaise Gap....

http://home.wanadoo.nl/cclinks/abtf/septem~2.html

The 9th SS Panzer Division is even weaker than the 10th. It has 19 company-strength combat teams; no more than 2,500 men. Still both units enjoy a tangible strength in the coming battle. The II SS Panzer Corps is formed in 1943 for defeating an airborne invasion in Western Europe. Before the division's allotted tanks arrive, both divisions participate in live fire maneuvers aimed at repelling paratroop landings.

[Invader ZIm]

The point is that if Mechs are the wonders of Urban combat they they are propported to be then the II SS Panzer should have not problem at all in routing the Air borne troops at all. Esp in Arnhem.

[Sea Skimmer]

It would be impossible not to notice the mecha. You can hid a tank in a barn, you can't hid a mecha. Aircraft would spot and attack them in vast swarms. The mechas light aluminum plating is not match for rockets. However the Germans deployed almost no tanks in these battles, it was assault guns that did all the work.