Doctor Who - The Master to return?

[Crazedwraith]

Time lords are forbidden to "cross their own time lines" and hence meet themselves at an earlier time. However this law seems to be a legal limitation rather than a limit of the laws of physics, as Time Lords have done it numerous times when it suited them to.

Well they used to be able to manage it. But I believe they can't anymore after the destruction Gallifrey. 'Twas the plot of "Father's Day". Back in Eccelston's day. 'Cross you're own timeline and -poof- Reapers appear and kill everyone.

[Vegi]

DIdn't the Master get killed once and for all in the 8th Doctor's TV movie?

Yes. But he got killed "once and for all" before that, too. As have the Daleks, a number of times.

This is scifi, mate. There's no such thing as permanent unless the writers demand it.

IGUANA: Aye, he did. An android version who was acting as the Doctor's companion.

I'm pretty sure he'd used up his 12th regeneration last time he was killed. I look forward to seeing how they will deal with this issue. It might give us some insight to how they deal with The Doctor's 13th incarnation if the series ever goes that far.

[mr friendly guy]

The master had used up his 12th regeneration as early as the Tom Baker story "keeper of Traken", (now available in DVD for those interested and which I just bought off e-bay ).

Actually earlier in the Deadly Assassin he stated he was in his last incarnation. He tried to bypass this by stealing energy from the Eye of Harmony to start a new life cycle, but he didn't get enough.

In the Keeper of Traken he tried to steal the power from the dying Keeper to allow him to start a new cycle but was stopped. However he managed with the last of his power to steal the body of Counsellor Tremas (played by Anthony Ainley), henceforth Ainley became the new master.

So thats how he managed to overcome the 12 regeneration limit.

Now he supposed gain new powers to survive being killed by the Daleks, since he got executed just prior to the 8th doctor movie. Any way it was never explained in the movie how he got these new powers, but IIRC there is a novel which tried to do that, involving ingestion of some psionic worm or some such rubbish. Thankfully I have blocked the crap out of my mind for the most part.

[Hades]

DIdn't the Master get killed once and for all in the 8th Doctor's TV movie?

Well he got sucked into the eye of harmony.

I'm sure a creative writer can think of any number of ways that wouldnt have killed him. ayb he was imprissiond within the Tardis for all these years.
(do any of the BBC eigth doctor novels deal with the master at all? I've only read about 6 of them

[DocHorror]

He's also been trapped in a collapsing reality, escaped a time loop,
Somehow escaped total incineration, escaped the Planet of the Cheeta People, excaped 1666 England, escaped the Matrix of Gallifrey & avoided death via T. Rex. Thats just off the top of my head. According to one of the novels he escaped a Black Hole, though he used up his regenerations in the process.

Escaping the EoH wouldbe childs play to him.

[Tychu]

Time lords are forbidden to "cross their own time lines" and hence meet themselves at an earlier time. However this law seems to be a legal limitation rather than a limit of the laws of physics, as Time Lords have done it numerous times when it suited them to.

Well they used to be able to manage it. But I believe they can't anymore after the destruction Gallifrey. 'Twas the plot of "Father's Day". Back in Eccelston's day. 'Cross you're own timeline and -poof- Reapers appear and kill everyone.

it wasnt until Rose saved her father, when the reapers appeard. Everything was fine when the Doctor and Rose were watching themselves on their second time loop

[Stark]

They weren't changing their past by standing there. If they stood where their past selves could see them, that would have created a paradox. You know how paradoxes work, right?

And it's explicit in the new show that whatever mechanism the Time Lords used to maintain the timeline is gone. No more Time Control Room = no more paradoxes.

[Tychu]

They weren't changing their past by standing there. If they stood where their past selves could see them, that would have created a paradox. You know how paradoxes work, right?

And it's explicit in the new show that whatever mechanism the Time Lords used to maintain the timeline is gone. No more Time Control Room = no more paradoxes.

i know what a paradox is, and if you think about that scene that is technically a time paradox when the 2nd time looped Rose and the Doctor are there looking at each other. That is technically a very small and incidental paradox that is mostly harmless.

i was just refering to that quote that the reapers would appear and destroy everything if THEY CROSSED THIER TIMLINES

the fact that there are 2 doctors and 2 roses in the same time is crossing your own timeline. That was harmless just when rose created the time PARADOX when she saved her "formally dead" father is when the reapers appeared

[Tychu]

i would edit this into my other post, but theres no edit button

but i am curious to see the timelords at work
I have alot of the old Doctor Who series DVD's but not specifically about the Timelord council and such. and according to the DWM many of those episodes that do, are badly written

is there a good Time Lord Council episode that shows them fixing the problems caused by other timelords, most likley the Doctor since they did "imprisson him on Earth" so it had to be something bad

[mr friendly guy]

is there a good Time Lord Council episode that shows them fixing the problems caused by other timelords, most likley the Doctor since they did "imprisson him on Earth" so it had to be something bad

"War Games" is the definitive one. The first ever appearance of the Time Lords as a race / society.

Unfortunately a) its not on dvd, but available in VHS over 2 videos b) its black and white Troughton episode (granted this doesn't bother me, but it might some people) c) the TL only appear at the end

Without spoiling it too much, the Doctor encounters a renegade TL who is giving primitive TL technology to a warlike race, who in turn kidnaps humans from various eras, subject them to war games in a bid to create human warriors as troops in their army.

After defeating the Warlord, the Doctor needs the Time Lord's help to return the humans to their own time zone. Not only do the Time Lord's do this with ease, they also do a few cool things as well, including surrounding the Warlord's people in a planetary shield. And lets not forget one of the Time Lords using his telepathic powers to make the Warlord scream in agony when he refused to follow the rules of the Time Lord court.

At the end of the story line the TL exile the Doctor to earth and he regenerates into Jon Pertwee.


The other TL episode where they deal with the Doctor is in the Colin Baker "Trial of a Time Lord". While I haven't actually seen all of it (although I have read the novelisation long ago), I am willing to bet as with DW in the 80s it wasn't any where as good as its height in the 70s.

But basically in Trial of the Time Lord, they bring the Doctor on trial for his interference in other cultures (again) saying this time he has gone too far. However it seems that their is corruption in very chambers of the High Council, and we see just how far they are willing to cover it up. Otherwise, most likely not particularly notable as with most Colin Baker stories.

A few other cool TL actions are mentioned to have happened in the past, and while we still see the effects of those actions, we don't actually see the Time Lord's actually doing it. For example the time looping of the Fendahl's homeworld in "image of the Fendahl".

[Stark]

Another useful example is Three Doctors, where the Time Lords have to use 'power' to bring the Doctors together and manage the temporal fallout. They argue about the dangers and the possible waste of resources - thus I've always seen the Time Lord temporal intervention of this sort (and the earlier light attitude toward paradoxes) to such resources. Managing the Doctor in this case was only a problem due to the serious power drain they were under at the time, and I imagine they habitually 'clean up' such paradoxes as the Doctor suggests in Fathers Day.