Death Star vs Culture Ship

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2003-01-05 11:34am

As much as I have grown to hate the Culture, I have to say they will probably win.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-01-05 12:15pm

No not the Clear air turbulance, the evacuation shuttle Horzra shoots in the AI unit.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-01-05 12:30pm

NecronLord wrote:
SirNitram wrote:
Shinova wrote:
Let me rephrase my post:

GCUs are USUALLY unarmed. But they can speed toward a planet through hyperspace, then brake hard when approaching the planet. This causes ripples through the grid that touch hyperspace and normalspace, resulting in a primitive version of gridfire. That's what wasted the planet (haven't actually read it, but from my knowledge I think that's what happened).
Okay. I revise my statement: An ISD can match the chaos wrought by an unarmed GCU. Can't keep up, can't fight in hyperspace, but both can fuck over a planet good and hide in a star.
Actually they can, they can't fight from hyperspace to realspace, but their weapons still operate in hyperspace.

Didn't Centerpoint fire some sort of Hyperspace conpression wave?

Anyway back to the question. The DSII could take on the shuttle from Consider Phlebas

Centerpoint's weapon is supposed to be a 'hyperspace tractor/repulsor', and it's danger is that it can blowed up stars by compressing their core(Just like the events of a normal supernova). It could probably grab a Culture ship if it could match the reaction times, and it's range is superior to everything I've heard(It can reach across the entire Galaxy).

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2003-01-05 01:19pm

SW hyperespace and the Cultureverse's Hyperespace present significant differences. There's no parity here, that's like comparing B5 hyperspace to SW one. The Culture probably can't shoot anything in SW hyperspace, but the same applies to SW special weapons.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-01-05 01:27pm

The Nomad wrote:SW hyperespace and the Cultureverse's Hyperespace present significant differences. There's no parity here, that's like comparing B5 hyperspace to SW one. The Culture probably can't shoot anything in SW hyperspace, but the same applies to SW special weapons.

Can I ask what differences there are? For one, I can't see much similarity between B5 Hyper and SW Hyper, so if it's even more different, I'd love to hear more.(The local bookstores only have Inversions and Look To Windward.. I keep looking for an earlier Culture novel)

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2003-01-05 01:59pm

The Cultureverse's Hypersespace is a 4-th dimensional space ( Culture astrophysics give the Universe no less than 7 dimensions ) composed of 2 separate spaces surrounding our 3D space, called IIRC "Ultraspace" and "Infraspace". Beyond those spaces is the Energy Grid which links our universe to a slightly smaller and younger antimatter-dominated universe.
Culture Hyperespace has some kind of inertia, and opposes a resistance to movement. Most vessels can use a poor man's version of Gridfire by going at full speed in HS and then braking.

It seems that it is much closer to B5 HS, than to SW HS.

Look to Windward is a good book IMHO, not as good as the others but still, very entertaining.
*SPOILERS* Don't be fooled by the apparent vulnerability of Masaq Orbital. Orbitals are easy targets in the Cultureverse, but it isn't representative from the Culture's abilities. Most of the Culture industrial abilities come from its GSVs, therefore in an open war the only value of the Orbitals would be their hostages - and some Culture Minds wouldn't hesitate to let the hostages die or even kill them *END SPOILERS*[/size]
OTOH Inversions isn't a true Culture novel.
*SPOILERS* Two of the characters are indeed from the Culture, but they've infiltrated a primitive, remote world , and the narrator stands from a native POV.*END SPOILERS*

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-01-05 02:08pm

Thanks for the info. Yes, it would seem the HS are quite different, though that doesn't stop the Centerpoint from grabbing a Culture vessel sitting in Realspace many thousands of lightyears away. It's supernova-inducing effects would likely be useless in this situation except against an Orbital, since one can SEE the change in the star and then run for it.

But yes, the real problem for Wars isn't the insane power generation(Though it's a notable problem), but that it can't actually hit it's opponents in this case.

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2003-01-05 02:20pm

SirNitram wrote: though that doesn't stop the Centerpoint from grabbing a Culture vessel sitting in Realspace many thousands of lightyears away. It's supernova-inducing effects would likely be useless in this situation except against an Orbital, since one can SEE the change in the star and then run for it.

Well, it would have to be fast enough. Culture ships have insane reaction times.

But, back to the Orbital subject, if the structure is enhanced as Masaq's one is, and the Hub undamaged, the Orbital can survive a supernova, although the exact protection level of the inhabitable surface is extremely ambigous. The industrial parts however, within the Orbital itself, should be well protected.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-01-05 02:35pm

The Nomad wrote:
SirNitram wrote: though that doesn't stop the Centerpoint from grabbing a Culture vessel sitting in Realspace many thousands of lightyears away. It's supernova-inducing effects would likely be useless in this situation except against an Orbital, since one can SEE the change in the star and then run for it.
Well, it would have to be fast enough. Culture ships have insane reaction times.

But, back to the Orbital subject, if the structure is enhanced as Masaq's one is, and the Hub undamaged, the Orbital can survive a supernova, although the exact protection level of the inhabitable surface is extremely ambigous. The industrial parts however, within the Orbital itself, should be well protected.

Interesting.. Can I ask for how you came to this? I keep hearing about how insanely tough orbitals are, but I don't know where this comes from.

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2003-01-05 03:22pm

Read Look to Windward

.

GSV Use Psychology · Post by **GSV Use Psychology** » 2003-01-05 05:11pm

It comes from Look to Windward. Although I can't find any calcs on SB.
IIRC it goes something like this:

A hub (orbital control station located in the centre) weighs about a million tonnes. I an equal amount of anti-matter were displaced into the hub creating a two-million-tonne m/am explosion it would (supposedly) kill all life on the orbital, but it was never stated that this would destroy the orbital itself.
The orbital has an radius of 1.5 million kilometers.

Assuming a spherical explosion, and that I didn't fuck up in my quick calcs I got that the energy intensity at the orbitals surface would be roughly 6E6 W/m^2.

This isn't that impressive a number. (Power intensity at surface of Sun ~ 6E7 W/m² from SD.net)

Corrections are ofcourse welcome, it's a bit late here

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-01-05 05:32pm

My calcs:

2e6 kg mass-to-energy = 1.8e23j (43 teratons -- ICS eat your heart out

)

1.8e23j @ 1.5e6m radius = 5.72e9 j/m^2.

J/m^2 can't be converted to w/m^2 without knowing how long the detonation took. Wong might have the skills and tools to figure out how long it'd take for two million tons of matter and antimatter to react but I don't have the skills to even hazard a guess.

GSV Use Psychology · Post by **GSV Use Psychology** » 2003-01-06 03:35am

Ok step by step this time.

Energy released by a 2 million tonne m/am explosion:
2E6 tonnes = 2E9 kg
E = mc^2 = 2E9 kg * (3E8 m/s)^2 = 1.8E26 J

Area of a sphere with a radii of 1.5 million kilometers (= 1.5E9 m):
A = 4*pi*radii^2 = 4*3.14*(1.5E9 m)^2 = 2.83E19 m^2

I assumed that the all of the energy would impact in one second (might be horribly wrong but i needed something...)

1.8E26 W/2.83E19 m^2 =~6E6 W/m^2

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Death Star vs Culture Ship

Can the DSII stand up to any of the Culture's ships?