Warhammer 40,000 Books

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2007-07-02 04:47pm

I saw a stack of them in WH Smith on sale. How easy are they to get into and where do I start?

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2007-07-02 05:05pm

Depends on what you want to get. The older stuff is in some cases easier to get if you don't mind paying hardback prices for paperbacks (like Executon hour, which is what I did, but then again that may have changed now.) Some of the other "oldeR" series are in omnibus form now (with added short stories) so they're really easy to get.

For the most part, alot of the "Good" stories you want are in omnibuses, so you shouldn't have trouble finding them. I'm more of ac ompleteist (and I am doing my little analysis project) so I tned to reach back into the past more for specific sources.

Technically you can start anywhere. The 40K books don't really follow a specific chronological sequence and stories can take place in any timeframe over thousands of years.

My suggestions would be to start with one of the following:

Ciaphas Cain omnibus: Hero of the Imperium

Gaunt's Ghosts: The Founding omnibus

Eisenhorn Omnibus

Beyond that, read the rest of the Cain and Ghosts series. Abnett (who does Ghosts and Eisnehorn) is their best writer, and he has some other books (Double eagle, which is fighter combat, and Ravenor, which is another Inquisitor trilogy, but no monibus yet.)

The other Ghosts novels are:

Honour Guard, Guns of Tanith, straight Silver, Sabbat Martyr, ,Traitor General, His Last Command, and Armour of contempt (the last which is still in hardcover IIRC.) He also just recently released "Brothers of the Snake" about a Space Marine chapter and is suppsoed to be good.

Cain's other two novels are "Death and Glory" and "Duty Calls"

The Space Wolves novels by william King are good I hear, though I haven't read them yet. The first three are out in omibus, the other is called "Wolfblade" IIRC. I've heard the fifth novel sucks though (its not by King, its by someone called Lee Lightener.)

Other (possible) authors you might want to try are Gav Thorpe and Graham mcNeill.

Thorpe has written the Last Chancers omnibus, and Angels of darkness. The LAst Chancers were okay save for the last novel, but I relaly liked Angels of Darkness.

if you don't mind forking over a fair bit of cash, ,Execution Hour and Shadow Point are EXCECLLENT reads, and focus primarily on space naval combat (Battlefleet Gothic.) The first novel in particular is my favorite.

McNeill wrote (As far as I am aware) Storm of Iron (very good read it looks, its up next after I finished soul drinkers.) and the Ultramarines omnibus (Good except for the very last story. Read storm of iron before it if you do.) Note that Storm of Iron I think is not (yet) in reprint, so it might be costly to get.

The Inquisition War novels (Draco, Harlequin and Chaso Child) aren't bad if you'r ecurious about how "earlier" 40K novels and games were, but its a little disconcerting compared to the modern era and its also kinda fucked up the further you go into the series. And I think the novels might be a bit pricey.

The Soul drinkers novels aren't bad reads but not terribly great either (Ben counter.) Expect some interesting combat, but also alot of instances of Space Marines being total dicks to everyone except themselves (partiucarily the Crimson Fists. Especially the Crimson fists.) And alot of the time I keep thinking the Soul Drinkers come off looking like absolute morons, but that's just me.

The new "Imeprial Guard" novels are okay, but not stellar reads. Fifteen hours was okay, ,as was Death World, but I don't suggest them unless you run out of other stuff to read.

The short story compiliations are supposed to be good (Again havent started them yet), especially "Let the Galaxy Burn' I believe. Dunno abut the other ones though.

Avoid the blood angels duology, by all accounts, though I myself didn't find it as horrible as it seems others do.

Rogue Star may not be bad either, since its got some space combat. The Shira calpurnia series isn't bad if you like a look at the Imperium's "law enforcement" side in more detail (and something more aside from the constnat warfare as it is.)

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2007-07-02 05:14pm

but that's just me.

Believe me....it really fucking isn't.

DEATH TO SARPEDON!

And fucking jumped up Scout Bastard ?

I hope a Howling Griffons bloke hunts you down and spit-roasts you with that damn thing.

fucker.

FUCKER

apocolypse · Post by **apocolypse** » 2007-07-02 05:29pm

I haven't read as many of the 40k books as Connor or WR, but I have gone through most of the Gaunt's Ghosts books having never read a 40k novel before, and really enjoyed them. I didn't feel lost not having read any of the other materials before. I don't think there's a particular order that you have to read them in, but iirc First and Only is the best one to start off with as it details how the Ghosts came into being.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2007-07-02 05:30pm

white_rabbit wrote:
but that's just me.
Believe me....it really fucking isn't.

DEATH TO SARPEDON!

Heh, yeah. Which is irony. Setting aside the whole "RAR I'm an uber psyker" idea (even though he's only got one skill), is the fact that Sarpedon has to be the suckiest Chapter master ever. And that's even considering its a Rogla Dorn spinoff chapter. I don't know if Counter wrote him that way deliberately or what, but he just keeps screwing things up worse the more "noble" he tries to be. Although he does clean them up, they wouldn't be problems if he were a bit more clever. (I mean how many times have the Soul Drinkers been manipulated, had a civil war, etc.?)

What's really amusing is that they seem to vacillate between being "rar! we'
re fighting the Imperium" and "rar! our true enemy is Chaos/Xenos/heretics/whatever and we can't let the Imperium fall!". Its like Sarps can't decide what his own intentions are. And that doesn't even add to the fact that over the past 3-4 novels, most of his actions have had the direct effect of harming the Imperium more.

And, of course, the Soul Drinkers uphold the "Rogal Dorn's children are assholes" vibe. I mean All the fucking up Sarpedon has inflicted on others has been because he's trying to favor the Soul Drinkers (Everyone else can go to hell.) And yet he keeps insisting they have noble/greater purposes and aren't really like Raiders/pirates/traitor marines.

And fucking jumped up Scout Bastard ?

I hope a Howling Griffons bloke hunts you down and spit-roasts you with that damn thing.

fucker.

FUCKER

Eumenes you mean? Fuck yeah, even though the Howling Griffons are a Guilliman derivative, which is not a whole heap of alot better than Dorn

And "jumped up" is right? How can he challenge Sarpedon who supposedly can take on daemon princes and alpha+ level psykers and take them down? ("first blood" my ass..)

Though I do have to admit I didn't expect Eumenes to be such an asshole in Chapter War once he earned the armour. At least not so soon.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2007-07-02 05:59pm

Ben Counter appears to be a pretty good writer, he's created a character in Sarpedon that goes from Noble Marine to UTTER FUCKING IDIOT in about two chapters.

Honestly, this isn't the sort of hate Lijah Cuu gets, this is bone deep fucking horror at how much I hate a fictional character.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2007-07-02 06:21pm

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, we REALLY need a sticky for this topic because at least a dozen people have posted new topics asking. In fact, I think a PM may be in order...

*fires up demonic communications portal for contacting mods*

Invictus ChiKen · Post by **Invictus ChiKen** » 2007-07-02 08:44pm

I'll just ask in this thread since it might become a sticky.

What novels if any have Chaos or the Orkz as protagonist?

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2007-07-02 08:48pm

There's that Lord of Night I believe, forgot who does that.

There's Daemon World by Jonathan Green IIRC.

And there's Storm of Iron, by Graham McNeill.

That's all I can think off off hand, but I'm sure someone else can tell you more.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2007-07-02 08:53pm

white_rabbit wrote:Ben Counter appears to be a pretty good writer, he's created a character in Sarpedon that goes from Noble Marine to UTTER FUCKING IDIOT in about two chapters.

I love his regualr characters. I loved Generla Xarius in "Crimson Tears" and I also liked Inquisitor Thaddeus in "Bleeding Chalice." Its really just his Marine charactrs which seem to be consistently assholes. (Well and the ADeptus Mechanicus, ,but EVERYONE portrays them as assholes cuz they are

)

I just get this really big feeling that Counter doesn't like "traditional" Space Marines. Of course I haven't read the Grey Knights novels, so I can't say how he handles them there.

Honestly, this isn't the sort of hate Lijah Cuu gets, this is bone deep fucking horror at how much I hate a fictional character.

yeah. I know what Cuu does (I hate who he ended up killing, cuz they were my fave characters, but its nice to see Abnett isnt afraid to kill off some of his protagonists either.) and I hate him for it, even though I took a break after Honor Guard. You hate Cuu cuz he's a selfish and dangerous bastard. You hate Sarpedon because he's a hypocrite and a moron, if an idealistic and (for a Space Marine) well meaning one.

Its kinda like Uriel Ventris in the Ultramarines novels, though with Sarps being a moron rather than a Dudley Do-right with a bolter.

Academia Nut · Post by **Academia Nut** » 2007-07-02 09:58pm

The Grey Knights books aren't bad, other than they suffer from Counter's penache for making deeply retarded characters, especially in the second book. Both books also suffer from somewhat deus ex endings, again, especially the second one moreso than the first. Actually, the second is something of a retread of the first only its like: "Let's make the action more confined, the characters dumber, the odds more heavily stacked against them, and the ending more deus ex."

In fact, the only thing I can say good about Dark Adeptus other than the fact that it's a moderately good book in the same vein of a moderately good popcorn flick is that Counter looks like he is setting up some interesting things that he if he runs with will either be epic or epically bad, but if he cops out will just suck.

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2007-07-03 12:00am

I have one thing to say, Ciaphas Cain books are not really good for people new to WH40k. They are funny, but much of the humour relies on a fair bit of knowledge about the universe.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2007-07-03 01:10am

Adrian Laguna wrote:I have one thing to say, Ciaphas Cain books are not really good for people new to WH40k. They are funny, but much of the humour relies on a fair bit of knowledge about the universe.

I've introduced a few of my friends to the universe via Cain, but yeah, it really helps to have some familiarity with the universe. The Horus Heresy books work the same way.

I have to agree with Connor on most of his recommendations, except possibly for the Shira Calpurnia novels. Legacy was very good, but Crossfire was tedious and Blind seemed to jump from great to insipid and back again.

For a good page-turner that no one has mentioned yet, there's Faith and Fire. I like the ending because you get the impression that maybe the bad guy had the right idea...

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2007-07-03 01:11am

I just read 'Space Wolf'. It's good, in my opinion.

white_rabbit wrote:Ben Counter appears to be a pretty good writer, he's created a character in Sarpedon that goes from Noble Marine to UTTER FUCKING IDIOT in about two chapters.

Honestly, this isn't the sort of hate Lijah Cuu gets, this is bone deep fucking horror at how much I hate a fictional character.

I'm assuming you're being sarcastic when you said Ben Counter was a good writer for making Sarpedon such an idiot.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2007-07-03 02:44am

Adrian Laguna wrote:I have one thing to say, Ciaphas Cain books are not really good for people new to WH40k. They are funny, but much of the humour relies on a fair bit of knowledge about the universe.

That's true I suppose, but in reality its true of ANY 40K novel to some extent. Every novel has some sort of "in universe" reference that references something else (usually in the games) - either the Gothic War or Abbadon's Black Crusade, or the Horus Heresy, or Macharius/Yarrick, etc.

Hell one of the Soul Drinker's novels makes direct mention of Eisenhorn.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2007-07-03 03:16am

Sidewinder wrote: I'm assuming you're being sarcastic when you said Ben Counter was a good writer for making Sarpedon such an idiot.

I don't know... His Grey Knights books are definitely worth reading. People might describe his GK endings as Deus Ex Machinas, but I never felt cheated by either of them. His characters may not be able to think their way out of a paper bag, at least not his Space Marine characters, but the Grey Knights come across as not-dicks who are only stupid when the plot requires it as opposed to the Soul Drinkers, who are total dicks soaked in dumb.
Of course, the retarded chaos marine in Dark Adeptus pretty much balances this out by breaking SOD. Seriously, Forrest Gump would have been a more competent chaos marine. I don't know how he hasn't killed himself with his power safety-scissors millennia ago.

Anyway, he only seems to have a problem with Space Marines since almost all of his normal Imperium characters are quite enjoyable, especially the Inquisitor in the Bleeding Chalice. So he's a pretty good writer who just hates Space Marines...or just can't write them.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2007-07-03 03:40am

Invictus ChiKen wrote:I'll just ask in this thread since it might become a sticky.

What novels if any have Chaos or the Orkz as protagonist?

Chaos: Daemonworld by Ben Counter (haven't read it) and Storm of Iron by Graham MacNeil (which has some great non-chaos characters, but stars a few douchebags, I mean chaos marines), Lord of the Night (which is pretty good, but not as Chaos-y as you might think), and soon an upcoming Emperor's Children novel. Also, a couple protagonists in Horus Rising and False Gods are maybe a little chaotic.

The truth of the matter is that Chaos protagonists are just horrible characters and boring to read about.

Orks: there are no books starring Orks as the main viewpoint characters, but Death or Glory and Caves of Ice, as well as Ragnar's Claw, are all great books that happen to have Orks in them.

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2007-07-03 04:17am

Connor MacLeod wrote:
Adrian Laguna wrote:I have one thing to say, Ciaphas Cain books are not really good for people new to WH40k. They are funny, but much of the humour relies on a fair bit of knowledge about the universe.
That's true I suppose, but in reality its true of ANY 40K novel to some extent. Every novel has some sort of "in universe" reference that references something else (usually in thhttp://www.stardestroyer.net/toc.html
http://www.stardestroyer.net/toc.htmle games) - either the Gothic War or Abbadon's Black Crusade, or the Horus Heresy, or Macharius/Yarrick, etc.

Hell one of the Soul Drinker's novels makes direct mention of Eisenhorn.

Yes but it's one thing to not get a serious reference and quite another to not get a joke. You are missing on much more if a joke flies over your head. Laughter is good for your health.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2007-07-03 05:58am

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:Orks: there are no books starring Orks as the main viewpoint characters, but Death or Glory and Caves of Ice, as well as Ragnar's Claw, are all great books that happen to have Orks in them.

There should be. A book about Orks rolling around in jalopies and playing soccer/fighting over soccer.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2007-07-04 12:37am

Connor MacLeod wrote:
Eumenes you mean? Fuck yeah, even though the Howling Griffons are a Guilliman derivative, which is not a whole heap of alot better than Dorn

And "jumped up" is right? How can he challenge Sarpedon who supposedly can take on daemon princes and alpha+ level psykers and take them down? ("first blood" my ass..)

Though I do have to admit I didn't expect Eumenes to be such an asshole in Chapter War once he earned the armour. At least not so soon.

God how stupid was Eumenes? I mean Really "But Sarpedon...you promised...wargh!!!"

At least the book had Orks. Ben Counter isn't horrid per say, just inconsistent as hell. His Grey Knight novels are much better honestly. The end of the first one is a Deux Machina, but it was a rather clever one. His description of Tzeentch and the "final change" was great.

"Faith and Fire" as well as "Brothers of the Snake" are others worth picking up.

CycloneRider052 · Post by **CycloneRider052** » 2007-07-19 12:02pm

McNeill wrote (As far as I am aware) Storm of Iron (very good read it looks, its up next after I finished soul drinkers.) and the Ultramarines omnibus (Good except for the very last story. Read storm of iron before it if you do.) Note that Storm of Iron I think is not (yet) in reprint, so it might be costly to get.

I picked up the Ultramarines Omnibus the other week after reading this thread, and I must say I thoroughly enjoyed the first two stories (having troubl getting into the last one), my only previous exposure to 40k is through DoW and it's expansions, but I've been gathering codexs to learn more about the setting and actually experiencing the Adeptus Astartes in action was quite interesting.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2007-07-19 05:15pm

You may want to stop reading Dead Sky Black Sun... It doesn't get any better.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2007-07-19 06:54pm

Ben Counter's really good at writing daemonic shit. His plots and characters aren't amazing or anything, but quite readable and his descriptions make it worth it. Abnett's stuff has cooler plots and characters and stuff, entertaining stories that keep you turning the page.

Largely, these threads boil down to:

Eisenhorn.

Ciaphas Cain.

Grey Knights.

Let the Galaxy Burn.

Horus Heresy.

Those are the books I have and I nod in agreement, though I've not read Ciaphas Cain yet. They're all on play.com too.

Jaevric · Post by **Jaevric** » 2007-07-19 07:03pm

Unsurprisingly, I'm very happy with Dan Abnett's foray into the Space Marines, "Brothers of the Snake." Though the Space Marines retain their passion for melee weapons, it's less of a regular occurence, and a shining moment for me was how utterly disturbed the protagonist is by the sight of a Space Marine not wearing a helmet on the battlefield. A welcome rude gesture to the people who insist that all space marines are helmet-less idiots because they're portrayed that way on book covers and miniatures.