Star Trek is DOOMed

[Darth Ruinus]

Edit= I CANT answer with absolute certainty.

[Stark]

Nope, but he does pick up a soul sphere and gets rejuvenated instantly.

Magic healing is less objectionable to 'medikits' that magically make broken bones and internal bleeding go away.

But if we figure the demons already had mechanical parts, and that that's just how the roll, there's not a lot of scope for them using ST tech in this scenario. Doubtless their 'zombie redshirts' will use them, though.

[ArcturusMengsk]

Which is another point I wanted to make: demonic infection must increase the physical strength of the victim several times over. I recall something to the effect of miniguns weighing over thirty pounds empty, and the recoil from firing one as being enough to knock an average individual down (hence Schwarzenegger being the only one strong enough to lift the minigun on the set of Terminator 2, for instance). DOOMguy must be considerably more powerful than an average human, as well as the zombies.

Yeah, and real people can't carry 9 guns and piles of sizable rockets. Indeed, the volume for those rockets is far bigger than the Doom guy. This is called 'game mechanics'.

If you're going to accept game mechanics as canon, I counter by pointing out that the chaingun fires pistol rounds at lower velocity than a pistol. It is 100% NOT a real minigun at all. However, if you're going to slavishly adhere to game mechanics (like zomg the guy can take a rocket ergo he is superman) I'm out of this discussion. Don't you have novels that are more accurate? Please don't tell me the novels have him getting blasted down to 1% health and just picking up some boxes and getting shot with more rockets?

Game mechanics = sensible takes this from the realm of standard scifi vs to the land of stupid bullshit, and I'll just get cranky.

Zombies using chainguns accurately isn't limited to the games. The second novelization, Hell on Earth, features a memorable run-in with a Commando who fires a chaingun with one hand, like in the game.

[Coyote]

Is the Doom movie based on the original Doom games, or is it seen as a spinoff of the Doom-3 franchise reboot? Because if it is a canon part of the original games first 3 levels, then the DoomGuy has access to superhuman powers:

The group continues through the facility until Duke is killed during a major assault by zombies. In addition to Duke's death, and Sarge being dragged away by the zombies, Reaper is hit by a ricocheting bullet. Consequently, to save his life, Dr. Grimm injects Reaper with Chromosome 24. This turns him into a superhuman, causing his injuries to heal almost instantly, and endowing him with incredible strength and speed.

[Darth Ruinus]

Is the Doom movie based on the original Doom games, or is it seen as a spinoff of the Doom-3 franchise reboot? Because if it is a canon part of the original games first 3 levels, then the DoomGuy has access to superhuman powers:

Im pretty sure the DOOM movie is something that stands on its own, since it offers a completely new story, one of the major changes being that the monsters are actually mutated evil people. Unless id decided to make the movie canon, which I doubt they did.

[Shroom Man 777]

This is RLY awesome, I mean, seriously. If Star Trek gets DOOMed, then it's finally time for the Nameless Redshirt to shine, kick demon ass, take names, while everyone else who's got names gets eaten by all sorts of monstrosities!

[Stark]

Zombies using chainguns accurately isn't limited to the games. The second novelization, Hell on Earth, features a memorable run-in with a Commando who fires a chaingun with one hand, like in the game.

This isn't very unusual for zombies (being very strong is pretty normal), and considering it's a 9mm minigun that fires low-damage, thus low-velocity rounds it's not that impressive either. It's a physically large weapon, but given the ammo it fires and the realistically pretty low cyclic rate, it's nothing special.

Actually, if you accept game mechanics do you accept that the shotgun contains 40+ rounds? Do the novels mention the nature of the smaller demons, like imps and pinkies? Phasers are ludicriously effective against flesh due to their chain reaction, and even pinkies are extremely vulnerable to shotguns firing shot, so how high-density could they be?

Coyote, the movie is separate and that sequence was their 'berserk mode' homage.

[Darth Ruinus]

The novel simply describe the monsters as they look, brown leathery, ivory spikes etc. etc.

Oh wait, the novels do say that the Hell Knights take around 6 rocket launcher shots to bring em down. I think I remember pinkies and pumpkins as taking at least a few shots to bring down, similar to some big animal I guess.

However, I would like to point out, and maybe ArcturusMengsk can help out here, but I dont think the DOOM novels are canon, since they ALSO have a different story (DOOM guy traveling with a female marine, the monsters are actually aliens, hell knights actually having "lightning launcher" weapons on their arms etc etc)

[Stark]

Oh really? I've never read them you see (the idea of a Doom novel strikes me as fucking retarded). Looking at the sprites ingame they do seem to just be animal-like, so phasers are going to be hell effective. The larger and non-humanoid types will probably be fine, though, since they're proper demons.

Then again, while they're called 'demons' they're really just animals from hell, right? I mean, the cyberdemon isn't magical, he's just a big dude - you shoot him and he dies. So is there any reason to expect a special resistance to scifi guns?

[ArcturusMengsk]

The novel simply describe the monsters as they look, brown leathery, ivory spikes etc. etc.

Oh wait, the novels do say that the Hell Knights take around 6 rocket launcher shots to bring em down. I think I remember pinkies and pumpkins as taking at least a few shots to bring down, similar to some big animal I guess.

However, I would like to point out, and maybe ArcturusMengsk can help out here, but I dont think the DOOM novels are canon, since they ALSO have a different story (DOOM guy traveling with a female marine, the monsters are actually aliens, hell knights actually having "lightning launcher" weapons on their arms etc etc)

I only have the second novel downloaded to my computer, but you can find them all on The Pirate Bay. The only really relevant thing on the lesser demons I could find indicating their relative strength level is this, from page 86 of Hell on Earth:

"The demon's eyes bulged as the shotgun blast tore chunks of skin from its face. The side of its head exploded into fine red spray, leaving a fleshy void filled with glinting white bone. The creature reared back, bellowing, and charged forward, thrusting its full weight into the space around it. Another blast slammed into its bulk, and another, stripping it of flesh and leaving only the creature's taut, toned muscles exposed."

The novel also describes the blast of a BFG 9000 as a "concentrated nuclear explosion", and, like in the games, a cyberdemon can take four of these. Take that as you will.

As for their canonicity, I couldn't tell you. I don't think Id actually has a canon policy, aside from "fan-made contributions = non-canon unless authorized by Id".

[Stark]

Describing the BFG as a 'concentrated nuclear explosion' is pretty much utterly meaningless and unquantifiable. I am curious if the novels have the BFG damaging terrain, and if that overrides the game mechanics of it NOT damaging the terrain and killing people using it's 'blast plus wierd tenacles of damage' thing.

And I'm not interested in how many shotgun blasts the pinkies can take: we know they're huge and angry and they can take the punishment. The point is that phasers have a chain reaction that at high levels is just going to make the pinkies disappear, unless they're in some way exotic (which it doesn't appear they are). They have blood, bones, brains, etc, so even disruptors would work well. Going by the games the armies of hell are heavily biased toward the suck soldiers, like imps and pinkies and zombies.

[Darth Ruinus]

Then again, while they're called 'demons' they're really just animals from hell, right? I mean, the cyberdemon isn't magical, he's just a big dude - you shoot him and he dies. So is there any reason to expect a special resistance to scifi guns?

Well, depends, magical to primitives, since the Imps, Hell Knights, and Arch Villes can just conjure up plasma and explosions at will.
Arch Villes being able to revive dead monsters etc. (Hell, bringing dead peaple back to life simply by standing near them and raising your arms up would probably still seem magical to an advanced race) but, magical or not, your right weapons DO still hurt them.

However, and I really hate doing this so much, in DOOM 3, I think there are some small hints of supernatural stuff, visions occuring in your mind, dead bodies suddenly flying around, and that voice that talks to you near the end, and near the beginning, those wierd Lost Soul looking things that can fly through walls, or just burst out of random peoples heads.

And in DOOM 3 the Soul Cube tells you

""We foresee a great battle. The outcome is not clear. We are the only way to destroy Hell's mightiest warrior."

If that is true (and not just a game mechanic) then the cyberdemon can only be hurt by the soul cube.

Alas, we arent using DOOM 3.....

[Stark]

Yeah Doom3 is very different: just the damn ghosts passing through walls and taking people over would seriously fuck up the ST guys. But if they're all physical and vulnerable to shotguns, it's a different story.

I actually found the Doom3 version of events to be more compelling, but Doom was never about story. I didn't even know it had one unit today.

[ArcturusMengsk]

According to this, the novel's story diverges wildly from the games, and ludicrously suggests that the 'demons' are in fact simply aliens that use the iconography of hell to scare humans. This is quite unlike the games, which have, for instance, tilesets made entirely out of skin, bone, and boiling blood. So I'm not entirely sure if they should be used as evidence.

[Darth Ruinus]

just the damn ghosts passing through walls and taking people over would seriously fuck up the ST guys.

That, and the Lost Souls suddenly ripping out of peoples heads. Or the Wraiths and Arch Villes suddenly teleporting anywhere on the ships.

I actually found the Doom3 version of events to be more compelling, but Doom was never about story. I didn't even know it had one unit today.

True that, makes it a bit more compelling when you are actually IN the Mars base when the shit hit the fan, rather than walking it afterwards. That, and meeting a few people before they die and such.

[ArcturusMengsk]

Bit of trivia: the demons can apparently rapidly construct large buildings, as Episode II should never take over half an hour or so to complete.

[Darth Ruinus]

Bit of trivia: the demons can apparently rapidly construct large buildings, as Episode II should never take over half an hour or so to complete.

Never noticed that.

How big is that thing though? I dont remember looking at it in the game, nor do I remember what it is made of.

Also, whats that other tower that appears for a split second before being replaced by a uh... blood spot thing?

[ArcturusMengsk]

How big is that thing though? I dont remember looking at it in the game, nor do I remember what it is made of.

I'm not sure. It's quite a large level, and the last on Episode II, but we have no information on it otherwise.

Also, whats that other tower that appears for a split second before being replaced by a uh... blood spot thing?

You know, I haven't the slightest.

[bilateralrope]

Bit of trivia: the demons can apparently rapidly construct large buildings, as Episode II should never take over half an hour or so to complete.

Never noticed that.

How big is that thing though? I dont remember looking at it in the game, nor do I remember what it is made of.

Also, whats that other tower that appears for a split second before being replaced by a uh... blood spot thing?

Well the growing tower is the boss level, and from memory its smaller than most of the other levels. The other tower that appears is the secret level, while the blood splat shows that you have completed that level. I'm not sure why the secret level vanishes after completion though.

[Darth Ruinus]

Bit of trivia: the demons can apparently rapidly construct large buildings, as Episode II should never take over half an hour or so to complete.

Never noticed that.

How big is that thing though? I dont remember looking at it in the game, nor do I remember what it is made of.

Also, whats that other tower that appears for a split second before being replaced by a uh... blood spot thing?

Well the growing tower is the boss level, and from memory its smaller than most of the other levels. The other tower that appears is the secret level, while the blood splat shows that you have completed that level. I'm not sure why the secret level vanishes after completion though.

Damn, I should have worded it better.

How tall is the Tower of Babel?

[General Zod]

Describing the BFG as a 'concentrated nuclear explosion' is pretty much utterly meaningless and unquantifiable. I am curious if the novels have the BFG damaging terrain, and if that overrides the game mechanics of it NOT damaging the terrain and killing people using it's 'blast plus wierd tenacles of damage' thing.

And I'm not interested in how many shotgun blasts the pinkies can take: we know they're huge and angry and they can take the punishment. The point is that phasers have a chain reaction that at high levels is just going to make the pinkies disappear, unless they're in some way exotic (which it doesn't appear they are). They have blood, bones, brains, etc, so even disruptors would work well. Going by the games the armies of hell are heavily biased toward the suck soldiers, like imps and pinkies and zombies.

One thing bugging me about this whole scenario (well, okay, several, but just this one point for now), but if the planet is flooded with radiation how are phasers supposed to work at all? Star Trek IV establishes that even minimal amounts of radiation are enough to screw around with whatever it is that makes phasers work and render them non-functional.

[Prozac the Robert]

One thing bugging me about this whole scenario (well, okay, several, but just this one point for now), but if the planet is flooded with radiation how are phasers supposed to work at all? Star Trek IV establishes that even minimal amounts of radiation are enough to screw around with whatever it is that makes phasers work and render them non-functional.

I think this was mentioned in the DS9 episode with the transporter gun. If memory serves, it was originally designed to work where phasers didn't, but was then abandoned in favour of some other kind of phaser.

[General Zod]

One thing bugging me about this whole scenario (well, okay, several, but just this one point for now), but if the planet is flooded with radiation how are phasers supposed to work at all? Star Trek IV establishes that even minimal amounts of radiation are enough to screw around with whatever it is that makes phasers work and render them non-functional.

I think this was mentioned in the DS9 episode with the transporter gun. If memory serves, it was originally designed to work where phasers didn't, but was then abandoned in favour of some other kind of phaser.

Wasn't the transporter gun one of those one-shot devices we never see or hear of again?

[Stark]

One thing bugging me about this whole scenario (well, okay, several, but just this one point for now), but if the planet is flooded with radiation how are phasers supposed to work at all? Star Trek IV establishes that even minimal amounts of radiation are enough to screw around with whatever it is that makes phasers work and render them non-functional.

Phasers frequently work in areas denied to transporters. Clearly, while phasers are vulnerable to environmental effects (as mentioned once in DS9) it's clearly not as nuts as transporters which are jammed by electrical transformers. Perhaps the TNG phasers are simply better: they frequently work in areas completely denied to transporters, or that planet with the colonists who 'evolved' to resist the local radiation.

Radiation = no phasers is oversimplistic and wrong, particularly in TNG.