Status of the Cadian Gate

[Lazarus]

The result of the EoT campaign was an apparent 'minor victory' for Chaos, which was translated into canon as Abaddon's forces gaining a 'foothold' in the Cadian Gate. The 13th Black Crusade background book contains the details of the campaign up until the retreat to Kasr Gallan on Cadia, which leaves the fate of the Gate undecided. So what happened next?

The only further detail I've seen was in an issue of White Dwarf about 2 years ago, which contained details of an Imperial campaign to liberate Cadia from Chaos forces, and how to build a tabletop campaign around it. I take this to suggest that the tide has turned on Cadia itself, but what about the rest of the Gate?

[NecronLord]

Doesn't really matter. They were just pandering to chaos again.

The Imperium holds naval superiority. For the most part, chaos forces aren't going anywhere.

[Lone_Prodigy]

Offtopic question relating to this latest campaign: why are the Blackstones so important against the C'tan? Couldn't a vortex missile, psyker with that warp vortex ability, or normal warp rift kill one since the Warp is anathema to them?

Related to that, what makes the C'tan so badass? Can they explode suns at will or something?

[Ford Prefect]

Cadia's looking a bit singed at the moment.

And what makes the C'tan so badass? Let's put it like this: the Eldar god of artifice, Vaul, built what the Imperium named 'Blackstone Fortresses'. The Eldar call them the Talismans of Vaul, and they have as I recall artefacts related to the Eldar goddess Ishainstalled in them - there were six, and they were essentially enormous cannons designed to tear open the fabric of space and let the energies of the Immaterium flow through.

While we don't know exactly what happened (Eldar texts don't give an ending) Vaul is said to have gone into battle with the Void Dragon, presumably with all six Talismans. We're talking literally the largest Warp-based weapons in history, short of the Planet Killer. Three of the babies caused a star to go nova. Vaul had six and the Void Dragon is still kicking (albit snoozing).

Where's Vaul? Vaul's dead baby.

[NecronLord]

Offtopic question relating to this latest campaign: why are the Blackstones so important against the C'tan? Couldn't a vortex missile, psyker with that warp vortex ability, or normal warp rift kill one since the Warp is anathema to them?

Anathema doesn't mean 'like the wicked witch of the west exposed to water.'

Homosexuality is anathema to Fred Phelps, but it doesn't mean he'll shrivel up and die if he were to be raped by a gay man. It's anathema to them because they have a limited understanding of it, and it's what their enemies draw their power from. If you're a mortal psyker, and you go anywhere near a C'tan, you're almost certainly going to die.

A C'tan in its natural form is the size of a planet, vortex weapons and such just don't cut it, while they can destroy the avatar, it would seem that not all of the C'tan's mass is in that, though there's little actual textual support for that idea, it would mean there'd at least be a fighting chance to dump them in the warp if all of a C'tan were somehow crammed into its body.

Blackstones are a viable concept because they're utterly massive weapons platforms (they're not to scale with the other BFG models. They're hundreds of miles acorss) that can potentially get the whole C'tan. They did of course, fail in their only effort to attack one we know of, and the Deciever has destroyed at least four of them, and has necrons lurking in the depths of at least another (according to one of the EoT campaign scenarios) one. One of the two remaining ones was last seen being swarmed by necron ships, and the other is personally possessed by Slanessh. Things are looking pretty grim on the Blackstone front.

Related to that, what makes the C'tan so badass? Can they explode suns at will or something?

Pretty much, yes. So can the eldar, mind (or at least, they can turn them off) but the C'tan are still further beyond that.

[Tasoth]

Related to that, what makes the C'tan so badass? Can they explode suns at will or something?

If I remember the opening to Nightbringer Properly, Nightbringer himself trashed a battlefleet of either hundreds or thousands of ships in a manner of seconds.

[Lost Soal]

No, his ship does. Nightbringer himself was already inside his Tomb.

[Ryan Thunder]

Wouldn't have been more than hundreds, I think. Thousands is a sizeable portion of the Imperial Navy.

[Lone_Prodigy]

What I meant was, what powers do C'tan have (since they're obviously not psykers or warp gods)? My only experience with a C'tan is seeing the Deceiver trash a few servitors then get trapped in stasis in Deus Ex Mechanicus, so I'm a bit confused as to why they're so feared. After all, IIRC Cypher fought one and lived (albeit with the help of his patron deity), so what powers do they have that make them so great (aside from their durability)? Can they shoot lasers out of their asses, or bend reality as they see fit? Can they suck the life out of starships and people like they do to stars?

[Jaevric]

Wouldn't have been more than hundreds, I think. Thousands is a sizeable portion of the Imperial Navy.

The ships the C'tan vessel was fighting weren't from the Imperium. As I recall, humans weren't even walking upright when that particular battle took place. It was a coalition of various xenos species.

[Teleros]

The Imperium holds naval superiority. For the most part, chaos forces aren't going anywhere.

Yeah - if you looked at the EoT campaign map after it finished, whilst Chaos had lots of forces on the ground on Cadia etc, the Imperial Navy has control of space, which gives the Imperium something of an advantage . I imagine it's only a matter of time until the Cadian Gate is resecured and the Imperium gets round to rebuilding what was lost, perhaps an Exterminatus or two on the new demon worlds, etc etc.

It's anathema to them because they have a limited understanding of it, and it's what their enemies draw their power from. If you're a mortal psyker, and you go anywhere near a C'tan, you're almost certainly going to die.

Indeed, although I seem to remember that in Nightbringer the Nightbringer's warship was stuck in the Warp, although his little "remote control" was capable of reaching into the Warp and pulling the ship back out. Stupid Ultramarines just captured the thing though, didn't bother destroying it (and thus keeping that monster warship stuck in the Warp forever ).

so what powers do they have that make them so great (aside from their durability)? Can they shoot lasers out of their asses, or bend reality as they see fit? Can they suck the life out of starships and people like they do to stars?

If you consider the Chaos Gods etc as masters of the Warp, then the C'Tan are the masters of realspace - the bit in the Codex described the Warp technology of the Old Ones vs the C'Tan and their "utter supremacy" of realspace or somesuch.

[Ezekyle Abaddon]

I think that a few of the other worlds in the gate were either invaded and held or were burned by Abaddons attack.

[NecronLord]

What I meant was, what powers do C'tan have (since they're obviously not psykers or warp gods)? My only experience with a C'tan is seeing the Deceiver trash a few servitors then get trapped in stasis in Deus Ex Mechanicus,

That was written when they were concieved as less godlike. What's more, the Deceiver even outright says he's playing with Lakius. "My race raised melodrama to a high art before you were even evolved," he says, before ignoring Lakius and returning to beating up an already mission-killed servitor. We now know that he could have stepped right through that door at any time. He was no more defeated there than I am if I let a four year old cousin 'beat me' in an arm wrestle.

so I'm a bit confused as to why they're so feared. After all, IIRC Cypher fought one and lived (albeit with the help of his patron deity),

He did not. He would surely have died. The Chaos Gods or the Emperor or Star Child or whatever intervened, (like they did to save Abaddon from Eldrad Ulthran in one of the battle report fluff pieces for Eye of Terror too) to save him at the last moment. Pretty much by definition, if he'd remained, he would have been dead. What's more, the piece seemed written to suggest that Cypher would have been dead within seconds of having the temerity to attack one.

so what powers do they have that make them so great (aside from their durability)? Can they shoot lasers out of their asses,

Yes. One of the nightbringer's tabletop powers is to shoot what's basically a shorter ranged lascannon at people.

or bend reality as they see fit?

Supposedly. We don't know what the limits of that are though.

Can they suck the life out of starships and people like they do to stars?

Yes. These have been featured respectively in Battlefleet Gothic and 40K TT as their usual forms of attack. (though conceivably, the BFG Sepulchure isn't a C'tan, the implication seems to be that it is.) It's dropped from the current iteration of the necrons in BFG though, as being unbalanced.

[NecronLord]

Related to that, what makes the C'tan so badass? Can they explode suns at will or something?

If I remember the opening to Nightbringer Properly, Nightbringer himself trashed a battlefleet of either hundreds or thousands of ships in a manner of seconds.

They fought it. Mephet'ran gave (I would have said betrayed, but that'd imply that I disapprove) the location of his tomb and the time when it would be most vulnerable to the Young Races, who assembled to attack it while the Nightbringer was at his weakest.

The Death of Worlds was able to destroy 'dozens' with each volley, but the numbers of enemies were unsustainable and it attempted to retreat, which was somehow botched, and the ship was ripped into the warp, or possibly the kind of void between the warp and realspace.

There was sufficient damage to the Death of Worlds that mountain-sized fragments were to be found on worlds of the system sixty million years later, where they provided superior metals for one primative civilisation, who could shape parts of the living metal into knives that never dulled, and the metal would regenerate in a seemingly inexhaustible supply.

It held its own for a while, but it didn't win. That said, without the counsel of the Deceiver, it seems unlikely that such a force would have known when to strike so well.

[Lazarus]

What happened to the Planet Killer? I seem to remember it being disabled by the Ultramarines, but was it destroyed or did it escape?

When is the situation likely to be continued? If the last we heard was in 999.M41, won't it become Warhammer 41,000 if GW carry on with the story arc?

[NecronLord]

What happened to the Planet Killer? I seem to remember it being disabled by the Ultramarines, but was it destroyed or did it escape?

When is the situation likely to be continued? If the last we heard was in 999.M41, won't it become Warhammer 41,000 if GW carry on with the story arc?

The Planet Killer's status is ambiguous again. They seem to be sticking in 999 M41, the only clue we have as to what happens in M42 is Amberly Vail's comments in the cain novels, which are written in that time. The Imperium's still standing, at any rate.

[Cykeisme]

If the C'tans are indeed possessed of such incredible powers, and deign to to devour/destroy all life in the galaxy, and they why have they not already done so?

Either they were that powerful, and no longer are after sixty million years, or the younger races have the potential to fight back in a manner that they would rather not face.
Or they're just chillin' and they're gonna gobble everyone up, like, tomorrow. Or maybe Tuesday.

A C'tan in its natural form is the size of a planet, vortex weapons and such just don't cut it, while they can destroy the avatar, it would seem that not all of the C'tan's mass is in that..

The size of a planet? What's a C'tan's actual form look like? Have there been concrete descriptions of their true nature?

so what powers do they have that make them so great (aside from their durability)? Can they shoot lasers out of their asses,

Yes. One of the nightbringer's tabletop powers is to shoot what's basically a shorter ranged lascannon at people.

Just to confirm, was that a "yes" to the entire question, or did you ignore the part after the word "lasers"?

If the last we heard was in 999.M41, won't it become Warhammer 41,000 if GW carry on with the story arc?

Heresy!
I pray the Inquisition not read that, else you may have doomed yourself and everyone on this board.

[Uraniun235]

Either they were that powerful, and no longer are after sixty million years, or the younger races have the potential to fight back in a manner that they would rather not face.
Or they're just chillin' and they're gonna gobble everyone up, like, tomorrow. Or maybe Tuesday.

The answer, like so much of 40K, depends on who/what you're a fan of. (Which is, I suspect, the real draw of the franchise.)

[Shadowtraveler]

If the C'tans are indeed possessed of such incredible powers, and deign to to devour/destroy all life in the galaxy, and they why have they not already done so?

Going by the novel timeline, the Nightbringer woke up early-to-mid 999.M41. Since only he/it and the Deciever are active, and the Deciever's busy with his Great Plan that very, very long-term, it's no wonder everything isn't in the pits.

[white_rabbit]

The size of a planet? What's a C'tan's actual form look like? Have there been concrete descriptions of their true nature?

The Void dragon, according to eldar legend/mythology, manifested as a big ass shadow covering a star IIRC, although it could have been some metaphor for him devouring the star.

[Cykeisme]

The answer, like so much of 40K, depends on who/what you're a fan of. (Which is, I suspect, the real draw of the franchise.)

What are you talking about? When the Emperor comes back, he's going to kick everyone's butt!

[NecronLord]

If the C'tans are indeed possessed of such incredible powers, and deign to to devour/destroy all life in the galaxy, and they why have they not already done so?

Have you missed Star Trek Four? It is not logical to hunt a species to extinction. Why would they want to exteminate all humanity?

Either they were that powerful, and no longer are after sixty million years, or the younger races have the potential to fight back in a manner that they would rather not face.
Or they're just chillin' and they're gonna gobble everyone up, like, tomorrow. Or maybe Tuesday.

They're not Cthulhu. They have an agenda, which doesn't involve killing everything and making it a wasteland. You can't force something to worship you and sacrifice its firstborn to you if it's dead. They're working on exterminating chaos. Then it'll be a cakewalk as no one else will have FTL.

The size of a planet? What's a C'tan's actual form look like? Have there been concrete descriptions of their true nature?

A vast planet sized dark cloud against a star. Yes there have. In Nightbringer's appendix, and in the Void Dragon story. The scale comes from the necron codex's descriptions of them.

Just to confirm, was that a "yes" to the entire question, or did you ignore the part after the word "lasers"?

Err. Essentially lasers. Given that even 40K lasers sometimes don't behave like them, I think beam of death is close enough.

[His Divine Shadow]

Homosexuality is anathema to Fred Phelps, but it doesn't mean he'll shrivel up and die if he were to be raped by a gay man.

Thats one of the funniest things I've read today. It should be put in some kind of humor archive. We really should get one of those.