Lord Revan wrote:
As much as I like Starcraft and Warcraft it's just impossible to make a vs. thread involving them as there's simply not enough data on either of them.
Meh, Warcraft kinda has enough to go on, though the game itself has a fairly confusing set up. So... humans run around using swords and plate armor, the Orcs have axes and whatnot, and meanwhile the dwarves are running around with 25mm repeater rifles, dudes with mortars, and tanks, the goblins have planes and buzz saw equipped, steam driven power armor, and the gnomes use gyrocopters equipped with bombs and machine guns.
I can't decide if its silly, or awesome in a Warhammer 40,000 over the top way.
"Impossible! Lasers can't even harm out deflector dish! Clearly these foes are masters of illusion!' 'But sir, my console says we-' 'MASTERS OF ILLUSION! - General Schatten
It's difficult to get details out of the Starcraft canon, but it's quite small in the grand scheme of things; the Terrans are a substantial force compared to the Protoss and Zerg, and they inhabit perhaps a dozen planets of one sector. It should be straightforward enough to make a comparison based on upper limits of Terran production capacity and estimate 'toss and Zerg capabilities from there.
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Zixinus wrote:Was there ever a Warhammer 4k versus Empire debate?
Yes. The short version is that 40K can match the Galactic Empire on the ground and do relatively well in space, but the GE has more worlds and industry so it wins.
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Zixinus wrote:Was there ever a Warhammer 4k versus Empire debate?
There was one indeed. I myself was not around at the time, but I found it most informative when a similar topic came up at AH.com.
"But there's no story past Episode VI, there's just no story. It's a certain story about Anakin Skywalker and once Anakin Skywalker dies, that's kind of the end of the story. There is no story about Luke Skywalker, I mean apart from the books."
The more I look at it, the more I realize that WH40K does actually have pretty much everything Starcraft and Warcraft have put out, and a whole lot more. If Blizzard actually did yank a good amount of inspiration from them, I have to say kudos to them for flying right under Games Workshop's insane copyright-infringement radar.
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RazorOutlaw wrote:
In this video (around 2:24) a Marine's face gets blasted by what's obviously a Hydralisk's claw. Is that what you're thinking of? And another example of a) the weakness of the Marine assault rifle and b) the weakness of their armor can be seen here (or the strength of the Zergling?).
The first Zergling tears away at a fallen Marine, and after they're both burned alive, two more Zerglings pursue a retreating Marine. The hypersonic spikes/bullets ricochet off of the Zerglings' carapace. The two creatures only endure about 100 rounds between the two of them so I'm not really sure if that's a good indication of anything actually.
I think that shows how craptastic the Terrans weaponry is, seeing as how those 100 rounds failed to do what a IIRC slow moving car can do.
That, and when that other Marine shoots those missiles, how strong do you think those things are? It was moving incredibly slowly for a missile, and the explosion was such that a Zergling standing right next to it was not hurt in the least.
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I think that shows how craptastic the Terrans weaponry is, seeing as how those 100 rounds failed to do what a IIRC slow moving car can do.
That, and when that other Marine shoots those missiles, how strong do you think those things are? It was moving incredibly slowly for a missile, and the explosion was such that a Zergling standing right next to it was not hurt in the least.
I'm pretty sure that the cinematic designers using Quake weapons as a source about what firearms and how they work is to blame.
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Zixinus wrote:
I'm pretty sure that the cinematic designers using Quake weapons as a source about what firearms and how they work is to blame.
That doest really excuse the weak firepower showings.
"I don't believe in man made global warming because God promised to never again destroy the earth with water. He sent the rainbow as a sign."
- Sean Hannity Forums user Avi
"And BTW the concept of carbon based life is only a hypothesis based on the abiogensis theory, and there is no clear evidence for it."
-Mazen707 informing me about the facts on carbon-based life.
The nuke explosion looked extraordinarily weak as well, the station appeared to be destroyed by secondary explosions and it was fragmented rather than vapourized as one would expect. The tactics of those involved were pathetic in the extreme as well. They go into a potential combat situation and instead of sweeping the station they crack open the beer without even posting some sort of sentries. It was like they wanted to all get killed.
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Academia Nut wrote:The nuke explosion looked extraordinarily weak as well, the station appeared to be destroyed by secondary explosions and it was fragmented rather than vapourized as one would expect. The tactics of those involved were pathetic in the extreme as well. They go into a potential combat situation and instead of sweeping the station they crack open the beer without even posting some sort of sentries. It was like they wanted to all get killed.
Terran marines are repeatedly portrayed as being sharp as a hammer.
Academia Nut wrote:The nuke explosion looked extraordinarily weak as well, the station appeared to be destroyed by secondary explosions and it was fragmented rather than vapourized as one would expect. The tactics of those involved were pathetic in the extreme as well. They go into a potential combat situation and instead of sweeping the station they crack open the beer without even posting some sort of sentries. It was like they wanted to all get killed.
That's what you get when your primary source of military recruits are "reformed" criminals.
The sad part is this is supposed to be some kind of elite demolitions-trained special forces outfit too. The freaking Ghost in the group (is that even a Ghost?) doesn't even manage to shoot anything, just stands there and pisses himself.
Academia Nut wrote:The nuke explosion looked extraordinarily weak as well, the station appeared to be destroyed by secondary explosions and it was fragmented rather than vapourized as one would expect. The tactics of those involved were pathetic in the extreme as well. They go into a potential combat situation and instead of sweeping the station they crack open the beer without even posting some sort of sentries. It was like they wanted to all get killed.
That's what you get when your primary source of military recruits are "reformed" criminals.
The sad part is this is supposed to be some kind of elite demolitions-trained special forces outfit too. The freaking Ghost in the group (is that even a Ghost?) doesn't even manage to shoot anything, just stands there and pisses himself.
I always assumed that he was either a newb Ghost or someone just using ghost equipment. He certainly didn't seem to display any of the Ghost traits, such as psionic abilities or keeping cool under fire. Or, for that matter, the trademark cloaking system, which I imagine would have been quite useful in that situation.
"Impossible! Lasers can't even harm out deflector dish! Clearly these foes are masters of illusion!' 'But sir, my console says we-' 'MASTERS OF ILLUSION! - General Schatten
Academia Nut wrote:The nuke explosion looked extraordinarily weak as well, the station appeared to be destroyed by secondary explosions and it was fragmented rather than vapourized as one would expect. The tactics of those involved were pathetic in the extreme as well. They go into a potential combat situation and instead of sweeping the station they crack open the beer without even posting some sort of sentries. It was like they wanted to all get killed.
That's what you get when your primary source of military recruits are "reformed" criminals.
The sad part is this is supposed to be some kind of elite demolitions-trained special forces outfit too. The freaking Ghost in the group (is that even a Ghost?) doesn't even manage to shoot anything, just stands there and pisses himself.
I always assumed that he was either a newb Ghost or someone just using ghost equipment. He certainly didn't seem to display any of the Ghost traits, such as psionic abilities or keeping cool under fire. Or, for that matter, the trademark cloaking system, which I imagine would have been quite useful in that situation.
That's what I'm thinking too. Its certainly possible that the Dominion/Confederacy has special forces units outside of Ghosts that use the same standard gear; in fact, it would be odd if they didn't.
Peptuck wrote:
That's what I'm thinking too. Its certainly possible that the Dominion/Confederacy has special forces units outside of Ghosts that use the same standard gear; in fact, it would be odd if they didn't.
Also, I may be getting an improper impression, and relying to heavily on game mechanics, but aren't ghosts also cyborgs? Their voice certainly seems to portray it, and I recall mentions of 'aggression inhibitors.'
"Impossible! Lasers can't even harm out deflector dish! Clearly these foes are masters of illusion!' 'But sir, my console says we-' 'MASTERS OF ILLUSION! - General Schatten
Peptuck wrote:
That's what I'm thinking too. Its certainly possible that the Dominion/Confederacy has special forces units outside of Ghosts that use the same standard gear; in fact, it would be odd if they didn't.
Also, I may be getting an improper impression, and relying to heavily on game mechanics, but aren't ghosts also cyborgs? Their voice certainly seems to portray it, and I recall mentions of 'aggression inhibitors.'
I don't think Ghosts are particularly cybernetic, though IIRC most of the human population in Starcraft have some degree of cybernetics, or at the very last, cybernetic enhancements are commonplace. I know that the majority of the convicts shipped out to form the main Terran colonies had genetic or cybernetic modifications to their bodies.
Also, I may be getting an improper impression, and relying to heavily on game mechanics, but aren't ghosts also cyborgs? Their voice certainly seems to portray it, and I recall mentions of 'aggression inhibitors.'
Their voice is due to the mask's they wear. And as for 'aggression inhibitors', IIRC in one of the novels it is stated that all confederate ghosts have them, so they can't betray their masters.
Disregarding the technological capabilities of either side, since those are mostly speculative, I will point out the severe flaws in your main assumption for how the zerg would win- through exponential vs. linear growth. In order for the zerg to reproduce exponentially, they would require and exponentially increasing amount of resources (food, vespine gas, overlords etc.). This limits the zerg population to the carrying capacity of the ecosystems they inhabit. The only way to increase in numbers further would be to conquer new worlds, which of course is where they would come into conflict with the empire or whoever else they are trying to make into zerg food. So pretty quickly, the zerg population would reach an equilibrium based on how large a resource base they start with and how rapidly they reproduce compared to how rapidly their forces are lost in battle. This same limit would apply to any race. Furthermore, if there were a threat to the empire, it too could assume an exponential growth (at least of its military capacity) by devoting resources to additional shipyards and manufacturing, besides just using what it already has. When the US joined WW2 we could build a few thousand airplanes a year, by the time it ended we were building hundreds of thousands. Granted the empire is already on a war footing, so that large an increase in military production is unlikely, but they certainly would not be limited to a strictly linear production rate.
