Help request- putting together Mil-SF OOB

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

Not sure this belongs here, it could equally well be in fanfic;

Basically, I’m thinking about doing some ground based military SF, in a more or less original setting, and I’d just like to run a few things by you, to check that it isn’t totally wrong.

It’s semi-soft, there is some rubber science, but I want to shoot for internal consistency at least.
Humans plus four other important races, one of which is significantly more advanced, one of them is theoretically more advanced but is hopelessly fragmented and cannot develop anything like it’s full potential, basically post- apocalyptic, one which started at the cave-man level but picked up bits and pieces from the others, and one which is at the same rough stage give or take a millennium.

We’re talking about hundreds of systems per faction, but most colonised systems are substantially exploited- outposts on multiple worlds, asteroid and comet mining, circumstellar solar power stations, fun stuff like that. There are real limits to FTL drive, one of them being that it is essentially semi-steered randomness- based. Ships cannot fly in convoy because there’s no way to link their drives together, and probable errors on emergence are in the AU.

Starship drives are not prohibitively expensive for what they do, but managing and flying one is a skill, and the more skilled have real advantage in journey time and error size. Humanity as a whole is coming out of a period of intense posthumanism, and there are multiple variants, gene- hacked environmental adaptations, cyborgs, downloads into robot bodies, etc…chaos. A large part of the psychological drive for human interstellar expansion is that a lot of these people want to get as far away from each other as possible.

Worth noting that, hundred and fifty years before the start of the action, there was a war fought largely by AI ships that ended in near mutual assured destruction between one of the main human powers and the fragmented guys. It was a perspective problem. That’s the historical rationale behind in- universe anti-AI laws.
Ex- humans are acceptable, but there are laws and treaties against completely manufactured personalities; if you are a sentient program, you had better be able to provide copies of the birth and death certificates of the human you were based on. Pretty much every major power skirts the boundaries between expert system and independent intelligence for it’s ship systems.

In ground combat, sentience engines are too expensive, and naturally occurring sentience engines- humans- are frankly too fragile for a lot of the task, particularly infantry combat.

The limitations of the drive mean that you’re never likely to be able to ship enough troops to any but the most pathetic dustball to actually take it on level terms, so you have to out-tech them. Spend money and take metal, not men. The basic technique is nexus warfare- hold the key points of the planetary infrastructure, power stations, water purification plants, transport junctions, places like that, and use them to hold the population hostage.

Planetary defence militia are relatively primitively armed- I’m still dithering about contragrav, I know its unscientific but it’s such a classic trope. It would also create a useful asymmetry between mobile forces who can afford such things and local forces who wouldn’t. The alternative is lifting body ekranoplan hulls, probably with secondary ducted fan or hover mobility- effectively, a wing in ground with a hover skirt for landing gear.

We are looking at ‘big’, here, weights in the hundreds of tons for some of the larger units- not so much physical size as density of armour. Speeders may have more volume than a tank twice their weight.

Weapons are another interesting point; starships use shielding and weapons based on the geometric FTL effect, but a discontinuity cannon is a very expensive and complicated piece of kit, and really needs a supercomputer, an isolation mounting and the synergy effects of a ship’s drive core. They’re unlikely as anything less than superheavy artillery, and for the damage they do they’re ridiculously inefficient against anything less than a shielded target.

Shielding, on the other hand- a standing field- is easier to do. Army vehicle shield generators are usually built around offcuts from the navy core production process, or splinters of damaged navy core, they can be reliably black-boxed but the control electronics are still stupidly expensive. For most infantry and cavalry vehicles, it’s cheaper to buy two than stick a shield generator on one.

Discontinuity weapons pierce discontinuity shields relatively easily, but conventional weapons do not. The survivability of the thing shielded increases drastically, probably by greater than a factor of two. Shields don’t erode, either. Think of requiring the equivalent of modern antivehicle weapons to kill infantry, antiship weapons to kill vehicles.
They do not replace armour, because apart from other things- power requirement- they bleed energy across the electromagnetic spectrum, so you need armour, or at least radiation shielding, to protect yourself from the side effects of your own shield.

One absolutely ideal civil use for discontinuity effect; garbage disposal. Anything that encounters a discontinuity field gets fed down a Riemann cut to nowhere- lost and gone forever. Well, anything up to the limits of the shield generator to stably manage. On the face of it, this seems just entropic, not getting something for nothing, but I’d like some help in thinking through the full implications.

There are non- drive based forms of active defence, electrostatic to break up shaped charges, melt or otherwise destroy micronukes, etc- explosive reactive of course, electron standing wave- free electron laser in reverse, absorbs energy- in addition to crystalline iridium armour and such advanced inert defences, but the weapons tech to match is there.

We are looking at essentially flying tanks, capable of high speed and agility- the traditional slow loading long heavy tank gun in a big, slow traversing turret is kind of suicidal. Unmanned remote turrets are normal, and the weapons mounted- an invading force needs more energy weapons, because it hasn’t usually got the room for ordnance- intensive logistics. Extensive laser- based PD and high energy kinetics- rail and coil guns- minimise the imbalance between that and local forces. Of course, breaking down that home field advantage is part of nexus warfare.

Main antivehicle weapon is low mass, extreme velocity electromagnetic accelerators, lasers and particle beams; drivers to fire at things larger than yourself, particles flexible, good across the target spectrum but pricy, lasers easily and rapidly aimed but short on lethality, best on smaller targets. Shell firing artillery mass drivers do exist, and some missiles.

Actually, a lot more than I had originally intended. Re-reading the org chart as I sketch it out, there are a lot of missiles and missile armed vehicles in there. Guess that they aren’t as sidelined by point defence as I had thought they were.


Basically, what I wanted to wave at you was a batallion-level order of battle. Even at this level, a formation is a composite of all arms, because of the necessity to deploy independently and range widely. The defender will almost always have numbers, so the attacker has to force a fast- moving, chaotic style of action on the defender, eliminate enough of his mobile force that nexus warfare becomes possible.


Five companies;

A coy- armour

Five combat platoons; first and second platoons each four tanks.
I know that sounds bald, but the ‘MBT’ designation is basically a historical accident, isn’t it? A general purpose, one size fits all anti-armoured vehicle armoured vehicle, to replace the heavies and mediums and infantry and cruiser tanks of WWII. It’s not really appropriate in a setting with a lot of specialisations.
Some in- universe powers are a lot smarter about standardisation than others; the advanced aliens have a small range of standard chassis- four, actually- some of the humans have deliberate commonalty of parts, and the fragmented aliens and about half the humans basically fail completely. This setup is from the Free Worlds Alliance, a coalition who can’t really enforce standards on their member states.

A standard tank, then, usually we’re looking at a heavy independent, around the 200-300 ton range; it needs more than one weapon, to engage more than one target. Usually that is a central remote-turret heavy weapon, useful against it’s own class, a coaxial and one or two independent-turret autocannon equivalents for shooting at APCs, IFVs and cavalry vehicles, and an additional setup of tertiary weapons, point defence/anti-infantry. Possibly also a light mortar or automatic grenade launcher, for special effects- smoke, flare, gas, small camera drone- more than lethal effect.

What a shame plasma weapons can’t exist. The blast and splash of a classic SF plasma weapon would be perfect for replacing a light mortar or grenade launcher in the anti-infantry role. Micronukes?
A tank probably has a crew of five- driver, commander, three gunners. Maybe a sixth for EW and sensors.


Third combat platoon; five assault guns.
Now, interestingly, aerodynamics completely changes the role of a fixed hull mounted gun armed tank. They’re cleaner; they can fly and attack at much higher speeds than something as unstable as a traversing turret on a hovertank. Conversely, catch them moving slowly, or outmanoeuvre them, and they’re toast. Definitely need mutual support here. Similar weight class.


Fourth combat platoon; five scout tanks.
These place a higher priority on speed than armour- I haven’t decided yet whether they would actually be any less well armed. This is the fast manoeuvre element of the armoured company. Lighter, 150-200 tons, possibly low-supersonic- actual velocity depends on the atmosphere. Even if I do go down the grav route and have non air breather vehicles, anything actually worth taking will be somewhere that has air. For the infantry, at least.


Fifth, support, platoon; four light weapon sleds with homing-round automortars, four light pseudopersonnel carriers each w/ eight ersatzfantry drones
The drones do not count as infantry; they’re basically RPVs capable of keeping up with the armour and adding to the point defence- anti-infantry assets. They’re too clumsy to take into a regular infantry fight.

Noncombatant assets;
Two armoured staff/command carriers, three heavy recovery vehicles capable of picking up the wreck of a tank, three workshop IFV-conversions, two mess- conversion APCs, two medical conversion APCs, two ammo wagons for tank and support grenade launchers and driver rounds, two electronic warfare APCs, pool of hovertrucks and hoverjeeps


B coy- artillery (Bombard)

The reasons for taking organic artillery (no, not biotech- I mean, directly attached) down to the planet are still considered to outweigh the reasons for not doing so. On one hand, the ships that brought you there should be able to do most of the work- on the other, shit happens. What if they’re not available- damaged and withdrawn for repair, forced to move out to meet a counterattack, committed to supporting someone else? Lot of possible reasons. Safest to bring them.


First and second combat platoons; each four artillery pieces, four ammo wagons, command/plotting IFV conversion, four recon/FO skimmers, 2 pseudopersonnel carriers w/4 recon drones ea

These things are kind of fun. They’re 150-250 ton units, nothing necessarily stopping them from being fast but they do have to be stable, and armed with multicannon. General all purpose electromagnetic accelerators that can throw small solid slugs are ludicrous speed, large filled shell at ridiculous speed, accelerate charged and neutral particle beams, hold a charge in the barrel for a free electron laser, ‘dry-fire’ maser shot, with increasingly elaborate support hardware lob meson bolts, antiparticle streams…yes, before I realised they were impossible plasma bolts would have played a major part in this.

The standard light gun issued at batallion level throws a twenty kilo shell at five kilometres per second, using memorymetal aerodynamics to steer itself to the target, and hopefully avoid point defence. They don’t fit them to tanks, despite some tankers wanting them to, because multicannon are complex pieces of kit, barely robust enough for field use, and not really suitable for something which jinks, dives, and takes light to medium weapon fire a lot. Three thousand rounds per ammo wagon, 100 ton vehicle, 60 ton capacity.


Third combat platoon; four missile accelerator/launchers, four ammo wagons, command/plotting IFV conversion, six recon/FO skimmers, 4 pseudopersonnel carrier w/4 recon drones ea

Each missile is a 250kg remotely piloted vehicle capable of independent operation if it loses contact with the launcher or FO. Aerodynamic, mix of flight modes, somewhere from thousand to two thousand kilometre range, discontinuity effect or small nuclear head- hard target killers, only way to make the missiles worth taking. Each ammo wagon carries 240 rounds, the launcher vehicles themselves again around the 150-250 ton range although not necessarily on the same chassis as the gun tubes.


Fourth combat platoon; aerospace defence, four ADVs with single naval point defence weapon, probably laser possibly particle, two quad launchers for antifighter missiles; four scan/track skimmers, two coordination/plotting vehicles, four ammo wagons each with eight quad launcher boxes.

The ADVs are, again, pretty much pure weapon carriers, with the largest laser the chassis can carry pushed to the limits of it’s performance, probably a tunable free electron weapon, going all the way up to X-ray. Powerful, but beyond the limits of acceptability on a vehicle intended to resist and evade fire.
Missiles are space fighter to fighter, which if they don’t use Heim drive- which I’m still trying to understand how it would work in practise, and I have no clue on the actual mathematics- would probably be NSWR. Hopefully with some kind of atmosphere friendly boost stage to get them out into space first, although considering they have megaton range detonation beam xaser- teller mine- warheads, what the hell.


Support platoon; two armoured recovery vehicles, two command/staff carriers, four workshop APCs, one medical, two mess APCs, four EW APCs, pool of trucks and jeeps


C coy; cavalry

The survival of the name is one of those traditional nods to the past. What ‘cavalry’ translates to is light combat vehicle, dependent on speed rather than armour. Almost everything here is highly aerodynamic, supersonic if not hypersonic, more aircraft than wing in ground.


First combat platoon; six high mobility combat vehicle heavy (Speeders), two man crews, pilot/gunner, armed with heavy autocannon grade weapon, probably laser, and missiles; 120-180 tons, probably using smaller than full blown artillery missiles- 1/10 the thing’s mass as payload, 100kg and smaller, so lots of relatively small rounds. Crew of two or three, pilot, energy and/or missile gunner, main gun would be in a small dorsal remote turret with a locking system for fixed-forward or electronically steered traverse only, high speed mode.


Second and third combat platoons; each six high mobility combat vehicle medium (Skimmers), split evenly three and three, between gun dominant backed by light missile armament and light gun and heavy missile armament. Two man crews, 50-100 tons. Covering both the bases, essentially, less expensive than the higher- performance speeders and available in more numbers.


Fourth combat platoon; four squads each of six high mobility combat vehicle light/personal combat vehicle heavy, converging designations arriving at the same thing which is to all intents and purposes a jetbike. Fully faired over, decent sensor fit- tactical, go see if there’s anything worth shooting at recon falls into the cavalry’s remit, after all- once you add armour, and the drive system to move it, probably does end up closer to the size of a car and 5-15 tons weight. Armament a couple of hundred kilos’ worth of missile, a fixed forward light autocannon and a turret infantry support weapon.


Fifth combat platoon; four squads, each of nine personal combat vehicle medium, or battle pod, and a pod carrier. Battle pods are basically power armour without the arms and legs. Which you ride curled up into a fetal ball. Which have lift jets- these things are more likely to be genuine VTOLs with vectored thrust ducted fans, and they can do about mach 1. Because of the crew position, they’re limited endurance craft anyway, so they can get away with being fuel burning.
They are small enough to use terrain- unlikely they could fit through a single, domestic doorway though, but entering a building from the ninetieth floor is just fine. Armament is infantry level, probably GPMG and semi- automatic grenade launcher.
Pod carriers are basically mobile garages, with crew rest areas and pod maintenance facilities- the pods plug into recesses on the outer aspect of the carrier, there would probably be access hatches like the ones in UFO. They do have some capacity to defend themselves.


Support platoon; two command/staff carriers, four light recovery vehicles, one armoured recovery vehicle, four workshop APCs, two EW APCs, two mess, two medical APCs.


D coy, Infantry (‘dogfaces’)
Considering all these flying things, how much use are men on foot, really? Well, they have lasers, so- not that much. Not unless they have aiming systems that take them well out of the foot infantry category. That and I’m assuming that somebody finally noticed that in almost any war, the overwhelming majority of casualties are inflicted by support weapons, artillery and air, on the infantry.
They are still, undeniably, necessary. It’s impossible to deal with the population without them. Solution? War robots.

First combat platoon; five IFVs, each with two human controllers and twelve human- equivalences worth of robots.

Now, there’s a potentially endless degree of variety here, so to standardise, there are six size categories.
Overman/Bronzeman, one and a half times human volume- nice and intimidating, bit bulky, looms effectively, but does tend to be the most easily spotted and shot at. Can be well enough armed to do limited antivehicle, though.
One for one replacement, Terminator style; common standard chassis, can do most things a human can, with a slight weight problem from the metal skeleton and armour.
Ape; and you can just picture the jokes. Main advantage, about 0.75 to 0.66 the volume of a man, gangly and rangy, can use most human styled equipment, but packs down smaller. Less intimidating, good efficient combat ‘bot.
Hound; range from 0.33 to 0.5 human volume, usually quadrupeds in fact, with obvious additional weapon mountings- getting below the range at which rocket and high recoil weapons are a good idea, can still mount a standard longarm, but barely, and no frills.
Cat; radically smaller, from 0.125 to 0.2 human volume, and usually pistol weapons only, good enough for anticivilian use- main function scouting and shooting up other small bots, actually.
Rat; 0.0625 to 0.1 human volume, and very light weapons, possibly chemical dart weapon for antihuman or explosive flechette for antibot use. Advantage numbers, small elusive targets.

All of these are relatively tough, armoured and built to survive some punishment- naturally, none is exactly immune to weapon fire, but they’re better than the equivalent mass of human. What they are not is more volume and cost efficient. Testing, repair and maintenance facilities take up at least as much space.

The precise combination depends on the mission, but a typical loadout might be two Bronzemen, three Robogrunts, three Apes, six ManDogs (like sheepdogs but to herd people), eight KillKitties, eight Plague Rats.

None are sentient; with human controllers in the decision loop, computer game AI logic is probably good enough, but getting them to correctly interpret their environment is going to be the real problem. They know exactly what to do about that fuzzy mass of edges over there…if they could only work out what it was. Assume that problem’s been solved.

The vehicle they operate out of can do recharging, cleaning and basic maintenance, and probably some limited plug-and-play repairs, but it’s not a workshop. It is armed, though. Medium-heavy autocannon, 75mm tactical equivalent, and probably a few missiles for hopeful antitank use. Relatively fast, 150 ton range, armoured.


Second, third, fourth and fifth combat platoons; each four APCs, with two human controllers and twelve human-equivalences worth of robots.

Similar loadouts here, the carrying vehicle is much less capable- an 80-100 ton, infantry support weapon armed, lightly armoured unit not really intended to fight in it’s own right. This arrangement could be described as suboptimal, which it is supposed to be.
It’s the result of a compromise between heavy infantry capable of fighting their way into a target, keeping the enemy off their backs while doing so, and in general playing a useful part in the mobile war, and light infantry which don’t waste time and energy on fighting tanks, a job they’ll never be good at. The light infantry concept treats them as payload.
So, the standard template infantry company ends up with one platoon of heavy and four of light infantry, a solution that satisfies nobody. Hey, they have to screw up somewhere.

(Marine heavy infantry, incidentally, don’t have this problem. When they actually have to make a planetary assault drop, line marine forces use heavy armour that has ‘pockets’- recesses built into the outer hull of the main battle tank. Supersonic, robotic tankivoy desantniki. Sometimes, sanity just takes a holiday.)


Support platoon; eight light weapon carrier sleds (topless APC), four w/ automortars, homing rounds, four w/ auto grenade launchers. Three ammo wagons, plotting sled.

Noncombatant assets; two command/staff carriers, two medical, six workshop APCs, three EW APCs, one armoured and four light recovery vehicles, three mud mover field-engineering IFV conversions


E coy, infantry (‘expendables’)- identical to D coy.

So- what have I forgotten, and what's obviously wrong?

[Illuminatus Primus]

Hope this means you're not laying up your speculative work in PSW and here.