T:SCC Season 2 Episode 3: "The Mousetrap"

[Faqa]

Actually, that brings to mind how STUPID Cromartie was to set the pier as the meeting spot. He should know his own weaknesses and not set himself up into situations where he'll get burned.

Not really. He couldn't ask John to go a private place without arousing suspicion. If he knew any private places they'd feel comfortable going to, he wouldn't have tried this gambit.

Given that, the pier seems to be the most logical choice, since it gives John less room to run and evade. And it worked. You realize Chrome Artie came within a centimeter of drowning him, yes? He was unlucky, not outmaneuvered.

That is why I assume he packed the gun - shoot John before Cameron notices/tackles him.

Still an insane risk, given that he and Cameron are evenly matched for the most part(aside from the fact that he presumably outweighs her), and that he was standing in plain sight. Even IF he had been anonymous.... Cameron continually scans people around her, and would presumably have ID'd him very quickly.

Remember, she is still not fixed and may have been distracted.

People keep bringing this up. Where have we seen Cameron functioning below her Season 1 abilities this season? Did I miss something?

Regardless, she was making no secret of the fact that she was following him. Why not sprint after him?

[Peptuck]

People keep bringing this up. Where have we seen Cameron functioning below her Season 1 abilities this season? Did I miss something?

Really, Cameron hasn't been acting below her Season 1 combat abilities. The only Terminator she's actually beaten in hand-to-hand without outside help was Cromartie in the pilot; when she took on Carter, it looked like Carter actually was able to fight her off to a point where he could block the escaping truck for about fifteen seconds. Vick had overpowered her to a point where he was pinning and punching her on the ground until Sarah distracted him, and Greenway was doing the same until Sarah again drew his attention long enough for Cameron to shove him into those conveniently explosive....things.

For the most part, it looks like Cameron and her opponents are evenly matched and not able to destroy each other unless they bring some outside force or extra firepower to bear.

[Shroom Man 777]

I don't get anyone who says this episode is anything but good. The developments from this episode alone has profound implications on the whole lot of their characterizations, including John. I don't expect him to act dickheaded anymore, not after this.

I for one thought this episode was great and it just highlighted what kind of scary motherfucker Cromartie is. Holy shit, man.


Oh, and BEAST WIZARDS!

[Thanas]

People keep bringing this up. Where have we seen Cameron functioning below her Season 1 abilities this season? Did I miss something?

Really, Cameron hasn't been acting below her Season 1 combat abilities. The only Terminator she's actually beaten in hand-to-hand without outside help was Cromartie in the pilot; when she took on Carter, it looked like Carter actually was able to fight her off to a point where he could block the escaping truck for about fifteen seconds. Vick had overpowered her to a point where he was pinning and punching her on the ground until Sarah distracted him, and Greenway was doing the same until Sarah again drew his attention long enough for Cameron to shove him into those conveniently explosive....things.

For the most part, it looks like Cameron and her opponents are evenly matched and not able to destroy each other unless they bring some outside force or extra firepower to bear.

Two of the more visible instances are right in this episode - she stopped to watch the mime while John was out of her sight and in possible danger and she did not spring in pursuit, unlike her performance in episode 1x03. Furthermore, in the episode before this, we have her standing motionless for about half a minute while being notified of a threat. So with respect to Peptuck, there have been quite some instances where she has not been acting within her capabilities.

[Oskuro]

I'm wondering if all this glitchy performance will be blamed on the damage received by her chip, or if they are hinting at her behaviour changing due to her learning to be more human... Not to mention that her model type and full capabilities are still somewhat of a mistery.

As for combat, I just re-watched the pilot, and she only beat Cromartie because she had a handy wire with wich to shut him down, in most instances (including that one), she seems to be inferior when it comes to straight hand-to-hand combat, wich would fit with her being an advanced infiltrator, rather than a bulkier infiltrator/combat model.

[Thanas]

As for combat, I just re-watched the pilot, and she only beat Cromartie because she had a handy wire with wich to shut him down, in most instances (including that one), she seems to be inferior when it comes to straight hand-to-hand combat, wich would fit with her being an advanced infiltrator, rather than a bulkier infiltrator/combat model.

I wouldn't go that far - in every combat, she only needed a second of distraction to finish of the opponent. Using the wire actually means that she is smarter than her opponent. I'd say that the chances are pretty even in a fight - both seem incapable of doing much damage to each other unless outside influences come in, like Peptuck said.

[Oskuro]

I just meant she feels inferior when it comes to physical strenght, wich is probably due to the need for the fights to be dramatic (making it look as if she'll lose) more than anything else.

[Peptuck]

As a somewhat irrelevant tangent, I'm wondering about the defensive properties of the Terminators' epidermal layers, at least in regards to heat and fire. Cameron's skin at the very least seems extremely resistant to fire, and there has to be some reason she was skinning Vick before lighting up the thermite. Maybe the epidermal layer provides some resistance to heat?

Two of the more visible instances are right in this episode - she stopped to watch the mime while John was out of her sight and in possible danger and she did not spring in pursuit, unlike her performance in episode 1x03. Furthermore, in the episode before this, we have her standing motionless for about half a minute while being notified of a threat. So with respect to Peptuck, there have been quite some instances where she has not been acting within her capabilities.

Good point. I'm really interested in what's going to be shown in the next episode, because it looks like its going to give us a lot more insight into Cameron's mind and her quirkiness.

[Thanas]

As a somewhat irrelevant tangent, I'm wondering about the defensive properties of the Terminators' epidermal layers, at least in regards to heat and fire. Cameron's skin at the very least seems extremely resistant to fire, and there has to be some reason she was skinning Vick before lighting up the thermite. Maybe the epidermal layer provides some resistance to heat?

This would make sense, considering that she was engulfed by flames in the Season premiere and came out without any burns whatsoever. Her jacket caught fire, there were flames licking all around her and yet her skin showed no sign of heat exposure whatsoever - she didn't even sweat. Also, it would make sense that her skin is heat-resistant, since she doesn't have any sweat glands or other natural cooling system.

(If this would be any other show, I would say that the writers were simply unable to see the heat exposure, however this isn't the case with the writers of the Vick episode.)

A simpler explanation might be that human flesh (or humanlike flesh) smells when burnt. The stench is quite capable of attracting attention, especially in a city.

But for the moment, I am quite willing to go along with your theory, seeing as we have the premier showing a certain degree of heat resistance as well.

[tumbletom]

Didnt Cameron save the flesh in bags that episode? I assumed she was saving it as replacements for any skin she lost.

[Thanas]

Didnt Cameron save the flesh in bags that episode? I assumed she was saving it as replacements for any skin she lost.

We never see her saving or disposing of them. She did however also save a bar of Coltan, so we never know why she did that. For all we know, she likes to keep trophies of her kills.(sarcasm)

I believe she simply digged a hole and ditched the skin.

[Shroom Man 777]

I also find it interesting how Sarah was insistent on John staying with Cameron, and how she told Cameron to keep an eye on John at all times. Considering that just the other episode, Cameron malfunctioned and nearly killed the lot of them...

Maybe Sarah respects Cameron, especially for telling her that should she ever malfunction again, they shouldn't allow John to "bring her back". Interesting developments.

[eyexist]

I also find it interesting how Sarah was insistent on John staying with Cameron, and how she told Cameron to keep an eye on John at all times. Considering that just the other episode, Cameron malfunctioned and nearly killed the lot of them...

Maybe Sarah respects Cameron, especially for telling her that should she ever malfunction again, they shouldn't allow John to "bring her back". Interesting developments.

Sarah knew that Dixon's wife being kidnapped was a trap, which is also why she didn't let John or Cam in on what was going on. Although Cameron is acting kooky she's still John's last and best line of defense if things went bad.

[Thanas]

As a somewhat irrelevant tangent, I'm wondering about the defensive properties of the Terminators' epidermal layers, at least in regards to heat and fire. Cameron's skin at the very least seems extremely resistant to fire, and there has to be some reason she was skinning Vick before lighting up the thermite. Maybe the epidermal layer provides some resistance to heat?

This would make sense, considering that she was engulfed by flames in the Season premiere and came out without any burns whatsoever. Her jacket caught fire, there were flames licking all around her and yet her skin showed no sign of heat exposure whatsoever - she didn't even sweat. Also, it would make sense that her skin is heat-resistant, since she doesn't have any sweat glands or other natural cooling system.

(If this would be any other show, I would say that the writers were simply unable to see the heat exposure, however this isn't the case with the writers of the Vick episode.)

A simpler explanation might be that human flesh (or humanlike flesh) smells when burnt. The stench is quite capable of attracting attention, especially in a city.

But for the moment, I am quite willing to go along with your theory, seeing as we have the premier showing a certain degree of heat resistance as well.

To follow up on that, her skin seemed to be highly damage resistant throughout the series. For example, she is pistol-whipped by Sarah in Episode 1x02 - and her skin is hardly breeched. Furthermore, when thrown by Vick to the ground in Episode 1x05 and punched repeatedly - and those are punches that were able to damage a steel van - her skin wasn't even grazed. Same with being thrown out of a window and landing about 15 meters down in episode 1x02. Then of course we have the explosion in the S1 finale and her skin is almost intact. Certainly less destroyed as one would expect.

[Peptuck]

As a somewhat irrelevant tangent, I'm wondering about the defensive properties of the Terminators' epidermal layers, at least in regards to heat and fire. Cameron's skin at the very least seems extremely resistant to fire, and there has to be some reason she was skinning Vick before lighting up the thermite. Maybe the epidermal layer provides some resistance to heat?

This would make sense, considering that she was engulfed by flames in the Season premiere and came out without any burns whatsoever. Her jacket caught fire, there were flames licking all around her and yet her skin showed no sign of heat exposure whatsoever - she didn't even sweat. Also, it would make sense that her skin is heat-resistant, since she doesn't have any sweat glands or other natural cooling system.

(If this would be any other show, I would say that the writers were simply unable to see the heat exposure, however this isn't the case with the writers of the Vick episode.)

A simpler explanation might be that human flesh (or humanlike flesh) smells when burnt. The stench is quite capable of attracting attention, especially in a city.

But for the moment, I am quite willing to go along with your theory, seeing as we have the premier showing a certain degree of heat resistance as well.

To follow up on that, her skin seemed to be highly damage resistant throughout the series. For example, she is pistol-whipped by Sarah in Episode 1x02 - and her skin is hardly breeched. Furthermore, when thrown by Vick to the ground in Episode 1x05 and punched repeatedly - and those are punches that were able to damage a steel van - her skin wasn't even grazed. Same with being thrown out of a window and landing about 15 meters down in episode 1x02. Then of course we have the explosion in the S1 finale and her skin is almost intact. Certainly less destroyed as one would expect.

Not to mention she had to have caught some of the shrapnel when she blew up the "bad" Terminator in "Dungeons & Dragons." Though in that case she did turn away, but even so she didn't seem to suffer any damage to her skin.

Also, Cromartie shows remakably little damage to his epidermal layer in the season finale, in spite of being blasted by more than twenty heavily-armed FBI HRT members. I mean, yeah, his skin is torn up, but you'd expect twenty men unloading into you to do more than that.

So, it shouldn't be all that odd that the outer skin is probably some form of ablative armor as well as an infiltration mechanism.

[Strider]

As a somewhat irrelevant tangent, I'm wondering about the defensive properties of the Terminators' epidermal layers, at least in regards to heat and fire. Cameron's skin at the very least seems extremely resistant to fire, and there has to be some reason she was skinning Vick before lighting up the thermite. Maybe the epidermal layer provides some resistance to heat?

This would make sense, considering that she was engulfed by flames in the Season premiere and came out without any burns whatsoever. Her jacket caught fire, there were flames licking all around her and yet her skin showed no sign of heat exposure whatsoever - she didn't even sweat. Also, it would make sense that her skin is heat-resistant, since she doesn't have any sweat glands or other natural cooling system.

(If this would be any other show, I would say that the writers were simply unable to see the heat exposure, however this isn't the case with the writers of the Vick episode.)

A simpler explanation might be that human flesh (or humanlike flesh) smells when burnt. The stench is quite capable of attracting attention, especially in a city.

But for the moment, I am quite willing to go along with your theory, seeing as we have the premier showing a certain degree of heat resistance as well.

To follow up on that, her skin seemed to be highly damage resistant throughout the series. For example, she is pistol-whipped by Sarah in Episode 1x02 - and her skin is hardly breeched. Furthermore, when thrown by Vick to the ground in Episode 1x05 and punched repeatedly - and those are punches that were able to damage a steel van - her skin wasn't even grazed. Same with being thrown out of a window and landing about 15 meters down in episode 1x02. Then of course we have the explosion in the S1 finale and her skin is almost intact. Certainly less destroyed as one would expect.

I wonder what sort of miracle material the semi-biological skin could use to be so amazingly durable. The weirdest part is how even though it's almost invulnerable to fire and very strong against blunt trauma, it seems to be much less effective against anything sharp. In addition, it obviously feels enough like skin for it to be indistinguishable (though this may be a rapidly regenerating thin epidermal layer on top of the durable part of the skin). I remember Cameron's skin got scratched up a bit early in Season 1 but I forget what caused it; did she go through a window? Also, she didn't seem to have much trouble cutting the skin of the Triple-8, though with her strength that's a pretty hard case to judge. Is there anything that actually acts this way? I know carbon nanotubes have enormous tensile strength, which would make them extremely resistant to blunt force, but I'm not sure how they hold up against being cut or burned.

[eyexist]

On the second episode she got hit by a car and went head-first through the windshield. Later on in that episode Sarah pimp-slapped her for gunning down El Finito.

[Thanas]

I wonder what sort of miracle material the semi-biological skin could use to be so amazingly durable. The weirdest part is how even though it's almost invulnerable to fire and very strong against blunt trauma, it seems to be much less effective against anything sharp. In addition, it obviously feels enough like skin for it to be indistinguishable (though this may be a rapidly regenerating thin epidermal layer on top of the durable part of the skin). I remember Cameron's skin got scratched up a bit early in Season 1 but I forget what caused it; did she go through a window? Also, she didn't seem to have much trouble cutting the skin of the Triple-8, though with her strength that's a pretty hard case to judge. Is there anything that actually acts this way? I know carbon nanotubes have enormous tensile strength, which would make them extremely resistant to blunt force, but I'm not sure how they hold up against being cut or burned.

Some body armour is very resistant to blunt force, but very vulnerable to knifes. Presumably this is the same case. And I think Nanotechnology is something that has to be a given at this point - considering that Skynet built the T-1000, I think her skin isn't that outrageous in comparison.

However, how much nanotechnology is involved, if anything? When Vick rebuilt his skin, basically all he did was lie in a bathtub while a guy poured substances on him. Doesn't look like nanotechnology to me. And then he only had to have a plastic surgeon cut away the excess flesh. This seems to be another point in favor of the theory that the skin is vulnerable to stabbing or cutting, but very resistant to other forces of trauma.

Not to mention she had to have caught some of the shrapnel when she blew up the "bad" Terminator in "Dungeons & Dragons." Though in that case she did turn away, but even so she didn't seem to suffer any damage to her skin.

That turning away was a barely disguised homage to the other favorite robot of the writers btw. Who coincidentally is the best robot fighter I can think off, but that is a topic better reserved for another thread.

[Shroom Man 777]

That turning away was a barely disguised homage to the other favorite robot of the writers btw. Who coincidentally is the best robot fighter I can think off, but that is a topic better reserved for another thread.

Huh? What are you talking about?

[Thanas]

That turning away was a barely disguised homage to the other favorite robot of the writers btw. Who coincidentally is the best robot fighter I can think off, but that is a topic better reserved for another thread.

Huh? What are you talking about?

Rommie from Andromeda, who Zack Stentz and Ashley Edward Miller first wrote the scripts for that got them noticed in the Sci-Fi community. Particularly, the scene strongly resembles episode 2x02 All Too Human, one of the last good episodes before Sorbo destroyed the show and the two writers left for greener pastures.