Stargate stargates vs. EVE ONLINE's stargates

[HolyReaperX01]

From the very begining i want to say im nuetral in this disscusion. Because some of you may not be familiar with one or either of these i'll explain the difference.

Stargate's stargate technology consists of a ring that contains the wormhole vortex within and is large enough to allow for 3 or 4 people to simultaniously[im not sure if that was spelled correctly] walk through the gate but for any more to travel through they must wait in line[not neccassarly in a line but u get what i mean]. It is capable of connecting with any online stargate in the galaxy[just about all of them] and if supplyed with an incredable extra amount of power then it's capable of connecting with any online gate in the universe. ""EXTREMELY"" advanced species are capable of making super gates in space capable of ship transport. This technology is very efficient for quick transport between sytems on foot.

EVE ONLINE stargate technology consists of space station like structures that launch ships system to system. They are only capable of connecting with one system per stargate and transport in one direction so corrasponding stargates within both traveling systems are required. Because of the fact that they they only are capable of traveling to one nearby system with a stargate you still have travel the entire distance from point A to point B the stargates simple reduce the time elapsed from anywhere between months to centuries to anywhere between seconds to hours. Also their are usually more than one stargate per system.This technology is very efficient for interstellar economies similiar to our own.

Again i would like to say that im nuetral in this discussion and you refrain from criticisiing people and and instead critisise peoples cases. That doesn't mean to say what they're saying or asking is stupid but instead state what you think is wrong about what they said and then say what you thin is right.
[I think some of you really need these.]
Examples:
#1-Good:

"I think Stargate's version is better because the fact that it can travel to any stargate in the galaxy you want with them." Person #1
"Though it is efficient to be able to travel anywhere in the galaxy you want I think it's less efficient because of the limited amount of supply's that you can take through them due to their size and that they're ground based." Person #2

#2-Bad:

"I think Stargate's version is better because the fact that it can travel to any stargate in the galaxy you want with them." Person #1
"Your stupid as hell how do u imagine ur going to transport 1,000,000 pounds of interstellar goods with those worthless things!" Person #2

I hope i cleared things up for those of you that prefere #2...

[MPC2163]

I played Eve Online from pretty much the beginning until I got engaged and really liked the effect of that stargate. In fact, I use that style in a tabletop game I played with a few friends in college. It made for interesting times and restricted movement just enough to keep people from spreading out too fast. That style of movement encourages empires that are more conventional and are easy to draw on a map.

Stargate stargates on the other hand can let empires grow with little relation on actual geography. A ruler can control planets across the entire galaxy and not have to worry about attacks until someone develops effective ftl drives, which only appeared in limited occasions by the end of season 1. After a short while, everyone had really fast hyperdrives and I am guessing there was some consolidation taking place in the Goa'uld system lords.

Each version works well depending on what kind of setting you want. I cannot see Stargate's tech working if you want interplanetary states with clear, defined borders. Likewise, Eve would not work if you want the freaky, Balkanized map of Stargate.

[HolyReaperX01]

i also think EVE allow's for a more defined/advanced economy. the fact that ships are the main source of travel even with stargate technlogy meaning more recources are avaliable to trade and the actual transporting them on mass is much easier and localized instead of spread thin. With Stargate's version only Goverments and Militarys of most species with interstellar technology have access to these recources and really don't engage in economic matters so much as if u don't give me that I'll do the same to you as that angry dude...but a thousand times worse...





lol, but ya Stargate is more of a command and conquer situation in unless the main power/s are democrasys and not dictatorships[which is very rare]

[Shroom Man 777]

A ruler can control planets across the entire galaxy and not have to worry about attacks until someone develops effective ftl drives, which only appeared in limited occasions by the end of season 1. After a short while, everyone had really fast hyperdrives and I am guessing there was some consolidation taking place in the Goa'uld system lords.

Those hyperdrives already existed. But since SG-1 Earth's only exposure to off-world events was through the stargates, they had no inkling whatsoever of interstellar affairs as their presence in season 1 was only limited to terrestrial territory.

Doesn't matter. SG-1 hyperdrives are freakishly fast. The Asgard ones, at least. But the Goa'uld ones aren't too slow for themselves either.

[Strider]

Given the blinding speed of even third-rate SGverse hyperdrives as a given for ships, I'd take SGverse Stargates because they're so handy for transfer of information and VIP/light population/high value trade goods traffic. In a universe with no Hyperdrive, I'd probably take Eve Gates because mounting any sort of large scale trade endevors or population movements with the SG ones is a flight of fancy. I guess the moral of the story is every universe gets the Stargate it needs

[bilateralrope]

Strider, I can easily see the SG Stargates being used for large scale transport in two areas:

1 - With a supergate like the Ori built, if you can provide the power it needs.

2 - When used in conjunction with a teleporter. Vala was trapped in the Ori galaxy when she was using a ring transporter which had its beam sent through the supergate. I also remember an episode where an asgard transporter moved SG1 between planets in conjunction with a regular gate.

As I see it, SG gates have 3 major advantages over Eve gates:
1 - SG gates can dial any gate within range, Eve gates are stuck to their linked gate. So the travel time between Eve gates would slow you down, and the distance between them is usually measured in astronomical units. In-game, players usually get their ship travelling at FTL speeds between gates.
2 - The regular SG gates can be placed on a planets surface, Eve gates are always in space. So a trip between planets on an Eve gate also needs to contend with lift-off from and landing on a planets surface, while you don't need any protection to walk through an SG gate.
3 - SG gates have much longer ranges and can do in one hop what takes several hops through the Eve gate system.

How much power does an Eve gate use ?
An SG gate can get enough power for travel within the galaxy from the US national grid. But I'm not aware of anything that even gives a hint of the Eve gate power requirements.

[wautd]

Several important limitations for the Eve gates:

Secondly, only one jump gate can be in operation in a system at any given time. This is due to the erratic fluctuations in the resonance fields caused by a mass boson sphere; if more than one such sphere is active at the same time in the same system, they both become highly unstable and impossible to operate.

Short range

In an average binary system the jump gate has a range of around 5 light-years, provided the jump gate is constructed on the third resonance node. More powerful jump gates can be constructed on the second resonance node between the stars. Because these nodes are much farther from a solar system (often up to 0.5 lightyear away) and, more importantly, are also harder to harness, they have only recently started to be utilized. On the other hand, they have much greater range than the basic jump gates.

You can't build them anywhere you want

There are several strict limitations on jump gate travel. First of all, jump gates can only be constructed in systems with two or more suns, because of the resonance nodes. This effectively makes one in every three systems ineligible for jump gate construction.

Hard to build them. Eve warp speed only goes a couple of AU/second so it'll take a while to get to another system at this speed.

And thirdly, ships can only travel through wormholes if both ends of it are connected to a jump gate. This means that ships must travel between systems in normal space in order to build a jump gate.

Couldn't find anything regarding power requirements though, but I think it'll be relatively low looking at the traffic and the size of ships they have to deal with in some of the systems.

scource: 3. Principles of jump gate technology.

[Lord of the Abyss]

As far as the cargo transport ability of Stargate style gates goes, it seems to me you could pretty easily send "1,000,000 pounds of interstellar goods". We've seen missiles fly through under their own power; you could use a maglev type system to toss cargo pods through the gate at high speed, one after the other. Catch and decelerate them on the other side.

And if you don't have superfast Stargate hyperdrives to go with the Stargate, you can mount the thing in your ships for an unlimited source of fuel and supplies.

[Jon]

scource: 3. Principles of jump gate technology.

While I understand it's the only authoritative written source, being from the official site, that page is vastly outdated, having been there for over 5 years. The actual in game stargates are all in total contrast to what is written there (i.e. multiple stargates in single systems with no activation delays, stargates in non-binary systems, etc etc)

[Zablorg]

How much power does an Eve gate use ?
An SG gate can get enough power for travel within the galaxy from the US national grid. But I'm not aware of anything that even gives a hint of the Eve gate power requirements.

There was an episode where they managed to power the gate with a car battery, although that instance was very inconsistant with past and future power requirements.

[Commander 598]

scource: 3. Principles of jump gate technology.

While I understand it's the only authoritative written source, being from the official site, that page is vastly outdated, having been there for over 5 years. The actual in game stargates are all in total contrast to what is written there (i.e. multiple stargates in single systems with no activation delays, stargates in non-binary systems, etc etc)

They also have massive supergates between regions now I think.

Likewise, Eve would not work if you want the freaky, Balkanized map of Stargate.

Have you seen the map of EVE?

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/verite/influence.png

[Kaiser Caesar]

scource: 3. Principles of jump gate technology.

While I understand it's the only authoritative written source, being from the official site, that page is vastly outdated, having been there for over 5 years. The actual in game stargates are all in total contrast to what is written there (i.e. multiple stargates in single systems with no activation delays, stargates in non-binary systems, etc etc)

They also have massive supergates between regions now I think.

Likewise, Eve would not work if you want the freaky, Balkanized map of Stargate.

Have you seen the map of EVE?

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/verite/influence.png

To be fair, those areas of influence on that map are of Corporations, not of the Five Major Empires and the various other smaller states,which tend to be not as balkanized and ill-defined.

[Commander 598]

To be fair, they're NPC factions who do nothing and never change except when CCP wants to do something fancy about once a year. They're pretty much run on plot device and developer fiat.

Game mechanics aside, the 0.0 corps/alliances are where you will see EVE's tech being put to it's true use, and it's also worth noting that the gates aren't the only method of FTL available which likely has some effct on the matter as you can essentially jump a fleet into a system, despite it being far from any connecting gate, simply because it's within X ly from one of your own systems and thus in range of one of the other FTL methods.

[Junghalli]

I'd definitely prefer Stargates.


1) They work from the surface of a planet. As an advantage, this is not to be underestimated. It takes lots of energy to move stuff through space, even just interplanetary distances. Sending stuff through a Stargate is as easy as moving it from one room to another.

And I'm not at all sure about a big space-based Stargate necessarily having lower transport capacity than a small planet-based Stargate. In practice, I suspect the extra energy requirements of getting stuff to the space gate would cancel out the advantages of its larger size. The Goa'uld Stargates are limited capacity because they don't use them very intelligently. If I had a Stargate on my planet I'd run a high speed rail line through it and keep sending trains through every few minutes.


2) From what I understand, there's a limited range between connections, requiring gate-hopping for long journeys. Stargates are anywhere to anywhere.


3) Apparently you can only build EVE stargates in binary systems. So no gate for systems like ours. This will be especially troublesome if you don't get the ship-based FTL system with the gate technology (enjoy your 4+ year trips to the Alpha Centauri gate if you want to go anywhere).


Overall, Stargate gates are much more convenient.

[Starglider]

As far as the cargo transport ability of Stargate style gates goes, it seems to me you could pretty easily send "1,000,000 pounds of interstellar goods". We've seen missiles fly through under their own power; you could use a maglev type system to toss cargo pods through the gate at high speed, one after the other. Catch and decelerate them on the other side.

SG-1 Stargates are fully suitable for bulk transport of goods. We saw this in the first Aschen episode; they tilted the gate flat and dumped a huge stream of grain through it. Stargates can stay open for about half an hour (as seen in the Atlantis pilot) and there's no reason why you couldn't send a trains through with the appropriate infrastructure. SG-1 gates are better than Eve gates for anything but the most massive levels of trade, because you don't need to load stuff onto ships, haul it through space and then land it again. SG-1 gates can also be blocked (by burying them or with an iris) whereas presumably Eve gates can't - an advantage for defenders, a disadvantage for attackers.

[Jim Starluck]

If I had a Stargate on my planet I'd run a high speed rail line through it and keep sending trains through every few minutes.

I always wanted to see someone try this. Although in my case I would've preferred it to be one of those early-industrial societies they ran into now and then, in which case it would've been Stargate + steam locomotives.

Overall, though, the SG-verse gate network seems much more versatile. Any gate to any other gate allows for enormous tactical flexibility, even if it's only communications. And then there's all the crazy stuff they've pulled with Stargates over the years...

The EVE gates, on the other hand, appear to be a pretty basic system-to-system FTL network. Sure, they're nifty, but not nearly as advanced as the SG-verse gates.

[Strider]

I was considering things from a more high end point of view, where a civ was maxed out enough to be getting the full use out of its Eve Gate (essentially dumping crap through constantly), not to mention that with no other FTL an Eve Gate is the only way to move a battleship system to system short of a Supergate.

In terms of current Earth societies and stuff on that order of magnitude, Stargates are infinitely more useful, especially with the handy tip it flat trick that I forgot. As for running trains through, how are we working the mechanics of it exactly? Whenever the gate opens, the ka-whoosh is going to obliterate any sort of track directly in front of the Stargate; are we going to swivel them in and out of place? Additionally, I'm none too sure of the mechanics of actually having the tracks extend through the gate, and can essentially see two options.

1) We open the gate, pass a track piece halfway through from Gate A to Gate B, then swivel up the tracks on both ends to connect. When we need to close, we swivel the tracks away, and pass the track piece the rest of the way through to Gate B. This raises some questions, but the mechanics of the Teal'c upside down grappling hook maneuver seem to back it up.

2) Wacky Stargate Track Jumping.

[FireNexus]

You'd have to set it up so the tracks can be moved into place after the kawoosh (assuming the kawoosh actually would destroy the track). It would also have to be within a small enough distance from the EH and close enough to where its counterpart terminates on the other side to allow the track to appear seamless from the perspective of a drive operator. This would likely be easier if you were willing to sacrifice a few inches of track on either side of the gate.

[Lord of the Abyss]

I'm not at all sure if tracks would work. It's been a while since I've watched the series; did they ever try running a solid object through so it stuck out both sides ? The thing disassembles, transmits and reintegrates objects; I don't see how that would be consistent with running rails through it.

That's why I recommended a maglev system; launch the cargo pod in one side, catch it on the other. You can get more cargo though that way even than the tilt-the-gate-on-it's-side technique, which I'd forgotten; you won't be limited by terminal velocity, only by the speed your launchers and decelerators can handle.

[Jon]

Running trains through wormholes is pretty much how it works in Peter F. Hamilton's 'Pandora's Star'.

But again in terms of EVE... ships larger than its stargates can use them- so being able to fit through it doesn't seem to be an issue (though there are limits, carriers/dreadnoughts/motherships/titans can't use them- biggest ships that can are battleships and freighters) and the fiction which says they can only be placed in binary systems is out dated and inaccurate, the majority of systems are not binary, and are home to multiple stargates.

[Junghalli]

Don't train tracks have short breaks in them where two track lines merge, which trains seem to manage pretty easily? Couldn't you just put a similar short break right on the threshold of the Stargate? As long as you make the break small enough that the wheels will be in position to catch the other track I'd think it could work.

Anyway, if trains don't work you could always just use trucks instead.

[loomer]

It might be a mild issue trying to use a minimal approach (i.e. adapting extant tracklines) due to the vaporizing flare bit. It might well be a necessity that you add another ten feet of track after dialling the gate and remove it afterwards - which is not an entirely desirable aspect when you want fast travel. There are ways around this, and it only matters with certain angles of star gate horizon, though.

[Junghalli]

The flare effect is, what, ten feet at most? A retracting or rotating platform that long that could be moved into place in a matter of minutes doesn't seem infeasible. Some sort of drawbridge type arrangement would probably be the simplest solution.

[Junghalli]

Ghetto edit:

It's also worth pointing out that Stargates don't seem to have giant scorchmarks on the ground in front of them, and the ramp they set up to the Earth Stargate doesn't seem to have any problem with constantly having to be retracted, so the flare can't be that destructive to stuff that isn't right in line with the gate. At worst, you'd have to put a short section of track on an elevator that could be raised and lowered a few feet, something which could take all of five or ten seconds.

The biggest turnaround time limitation with a Stargate is probably going to be the time needed to dial up a new set of coordinates, which seems to take around 30 seconds to 1 minute. As the gate can stay open up to half an hour (based on comment from previous poster), this should still allow a minimally uninterrupted flow of stuff through.

[Zablorg]

Actually with a DHD dialing takes almost no time at all and could be done in a matter of seconds if you don't need to look for the panels.

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