Finished watching Legend of the Galactic Heroes (spoilers)

[Vympel]

Well, what a show that was. Some thoughts:-

* The ending was appropriate. I didn't really know how it would end, but I think that after all the bloodshed, it really did work out best for everyone;

* I was glad that Schenkopp died. I was never a fan of the Rosenritter - they were simply too good at their job to be likeable, so their being mostly killed on the Brunhild was a satisfying end for them to me;

* I guess the way the show broke up the difference in the two sides was that Reinhard von Lohengramm had the better admirals, and Yang Wen-li / Julian had the better soldiers, hence Oliver Poplan and his Spartanian pilots and Schenkopp and the Rosenritter.

* I was always more interested in what was going on in the Galactic Empire than what was going on in either the Free Planets Alliance or the Iserlohn Republic. Reinhard's retainers were just cooler characters - I loved it how seemingly one-note Admirals all got their time in the sun - Wahlen and Lutz, for example, were introduced in the space of a few seconds in Episode 15, and by Season 3 and 4 you can't imagine how you could have ever not noticed them. That is not to say that I wasn't interested in the other side, I was just interested in Reinhard's side more;

* Speaking of Admirals - Bittenfeld - I loved this guy. He was such an unsubtle brash maniac, but his fleet was awesome (Black Lancers! Fwar!!!) and even though he fucked up numerous times (his ruining of Reinhard's near perfect victory at Amlitzer in Episode 15/16, his probably being responsible for Fahrenheit's death, etc) he still did his part and was awesome whilst doing it - he did punch Merkatz' ticket (finally!) after all.

* Related to this, maybe its a problem in the fan translation, but I always found the FPA/ Iserlohn Republic banter, usually between Attenborough and Poplan, to not make much sense. It didn't quite "gel" for me;

* It was so damn frustrating that the battles between Yang Wen-li and Reinhard never reached a definitive conclusion - they were always either draws, or an inconclusive tactical defeat on one side. I guess it was because I loved Reinhard's character so that I was just shouting at the screen when he was about to crush Yang at Iserlohn but got sick and called it off - especially seeing as how Yang had just lost Fischer (off-screen, which I thought was a good way of doing it) and had no chance of putting up an effective resistance;

* The show can be very sentimental near the end, but by that point you've been following the story so long, you just don't care and are swept up in it all. I loved it when Mittermeyer has the dream of Reinhard going to join his dead retainers in Valhalla, it was a cool moment;

* As stated in the previous thread, the Terraists were kind of cartoonishly evil- I guess they're supposed to represent the forces that try to prevent the march of history and turn back the clock, but did de Villier really have to Dr. Evil cackle so much?

* Christ there was a lot of gore;

* Oberstein had a dog?

Now watching the 'Gaiden' side stories.

[Gunhead]

Those gaiden side stories are pretty sucky, with some good bits. I mostly like the one where they show logh ground action.

-Gunhead

[takemeout_totheblack]

I agree completely with almost all your points, but how is the awesomely quiet death of Oscar Von Reuenthal not here? I loved that guy!

Now that you have links to the whole shebang, what's you thoughts on how they handled the scifi aspect of the show, tech and tactics and whatnot?

[Vympel]

Yeah, von Reuental's death (and killing Job Truniht) was pretty gut-wrenching. They hinted at what would happen from very early on, but it was so damn unnecessary and a waste.

Now that you have links to the whole shebang, what's you thoughts on how they handled the scifi aspect of the show, tech and tactics and whatnot?

I think it was handled appropriately in that it was never a centerpiece of the story. The viewer is able to appreicate that these are fusion powered ships with weapons capable of extreme range, and not just light-speed beam weapons but also types of missiles and mines (and in one instance, dead-ringers for photon torpedoes) ...

They have some sort of FTL but its not clear when they use it and when they don't (to travel in between 'starzones'?)

They have shields but its hard to guage their resilience in combat because battles we see are lasting for many hours and sometimes days - whilst most ships we see get destroyed outright upon a hit, in other instances (especially near the end of the series) we see the shields deflect multiple shots. From the battles with the Lippstadt Alliance, its clear that range also plays a factor in shield effectiveness, and if you fire the cannons at extreme range its not going to be very effective.

The existence of Iserlohn and Phezzan corridors also shows that travel in LOGH-verse is obviously very restricted, and venturing out of those regions of space is a recipe for death. We see this in the Battle of the Iserlohn Corridor when an Imperial ship moves up and its 'roof' for lack of a better term is sheared off for no apparent reason.

[takemeout_totheblack]

Their shields and particle cannons must be fairly powerful because in one episode they sit a couple hundred clicks above a star and fight for a long time, right? The episode's name is right on the tip of my tongue! Also their shields seem to block particle cannons exclusively, as there are several occasions where solid objects such as missiles, meteors, and fighters collide with battleships.

Their propulsion systems appear to be plot-powered and curtailed by an overwhelming abundance of malicious spacial anomalies, but they seem to jaunt back and forth between Iserlohn and Phezzan pretty regularly, to where it does work it works pretty well!

The sublight acceleration must be quit high as they close ranges in the millions of kilometers quite quickly (under a day at least) in battles. Could be in the low five-digit Gs of linear acceleration?

[Uraniun235]

The existence of Iserlohn and Phezzan corridors also shows that travel in LOGH-verse is obviously very restricted, and venturing out of those regions of space is a recipe for death. We see this in the Battle of the Iserlohn Corridor when an Imperial ship moves up and its 'roof' for lack of a better term is sheared off for no apparent reason.

I still wonder if that's something that got retconned in later. Earlier in the series they seemed to imply that Iserlohn was 'merely' a crucial base (which also happened to be invincible) needed as a launching point for an invasion in either direction - such that simply bypassing the base would leave you open to harassment from behind and stretch your supply lines too long, or risk getting lost in deep interstellar space. It might be that in order to sustain Iserlohn's relevance past the fall of the FPA, the writer decided to redefine Iserlohn Corridor as literally a tunnel in space beyond which no starship could travel.

[Vympel]

Their shields and particle cannons must be fairly powerful because in one episode they sit a couple hundred clicks above a star and fight for a long time, right? The episode's name is right on the tip of my tongue! Also their shields seem to block particle cannons exclusively, as there are several occasions where solid objects such as missiles, meteors, and fighters collide with battleships.

Yeah, Episode 15/16 - The Battle of Amlitzer Starzone and New Trends. The Alliance is crushed by Reinhard and his retainers in an epic sweeping series of shots showing how badly they're getting trounched (with the exception of Yang Wen-li vs Admiral Kempf) and then they amass at the Amlitzer star for the final engagement. Bittenfeld too eager for victory launches Valkryies too early, weakens his fleet, and Yang is able to break through his Black Lancers and escape to Iserlohn.

Two of my favorite episodes ever

Their propulsion systems appear to be plot-powered and curtailed by an overwhelming abundance of malicious spacial anomalies, but they seem to jaunt back and forth between Iserlohn and Phezzan pretty regularly, to where it does work it works pretty well!

The sublight acceleration must be quit high as they close ranges in the millions of kilometers quite quickly (under a day at least) in battles. Could be in the low five-digit Gs of linear acceleration?

Well its weird - how did Mittermeyer land right on top of the enemy fleet in Episode 15 (first time he's referred to as Gale Wolf)? Did he FTL in?

I still wonder if that's something that got retconned in later. Earlier in the series they seemed to imply that Iserlohn was 'merely' a crucial base (which also happened to be invincible) needed as a launching point for an invasion in either direction - such that simply bypassing the base would leave you open to harassment from behind and stretch your supply lines too long, or risk getting lost in deep interstellar space. It might be that in order to sustain Iserlohn's relevance past the fall of the FPA, the writer decided to redefine Iserlohn Corridor as literally a tunnel in space beyond which no starship could travel.

Well they're based on books, so if it wasn't stated when Iserlohn was first introduced it was probably the OVA's oversight rather than the setting?

[takemeout_totheblack]

Well its weird - how did Mittermeyer land right on top of the enemy fleet in Episode 15 (first time he's referred to as Gale Wolf)? Did he FTL in?

As shown with the prep for the Geiersburg Offensive their warp engines are a 'disappear-reappear' kind of FTL, explaining Gale Wolf's unexpected drop into enemy formations. Perhaps the real key to Mittermeyer's 'speed' is the accuracy and timing of his jumps in addition to the choreography and unity of fleets under his command.

[Vympel]

Those gaiden side stories are pretty sucky, with some good bits. I mostly like the one where they show logh ground action.

I'm acquiring them largely at random, so I've started off with 'Spiral Labyrinth' - whatever that even means. Its interesting so far. I like prequels.

[Gunhead]

So, let's see. Logh BWR engaments standard, check, Ice asteroids used as weapons at light speeds , check. fighters with turreted weapons, check. Special ground troops for fighting when needed, check.
these are just a fraction of the facts why logh sets the standard for other scifi series to follow.

-Gunhead

[Commander 598]

Those gaiden side stories are pretty sucky, with some good bits. I mostly like the one where they show logh ground action.

I'm acquiring them largely at random, so I've started off with 'Spiral Labyrinth' - whatever that even means. Its interesting so far. I like prequels.

Spiral Labyrinth is the second set of side stories. The first is referred to as Gaiden/LoGH Gaiden. Spiral Labyrinth still has new episodes coming out with the Mutineer, the Duelist, and the Retriever arcs being released relatively recently. One more left I think...

[Vympel]

Yeah, I'm watching Gaiden as well now - I just saw Gaiden 1, loved the Imperial / Alliance armored vehicles.

[Bright]

* I was always more interested in what was going on in the Galactic Empire than what was going on in either the Free Planets Alliance or the Iserlohn Republic. Reinhard's retainers were just cooler characters - I loved it how seemingly one-note Admirals all got their time in the sun - Wahlen and Lutz, for example, were introduced in the space of a few seconds in Episode 15, and by Season 3 and 4 you can't imagine how you could have ever not noticed them. That is not to say that I wasn't interested in the other side, I was just interested in Reinhard's side more;

I agree. When I saw that lineup of "brave Admirals" early on, I immediately thought "They are SO dead!" But no. Each and every one of them was fleshed out to an incredible degree. And they were awesome.

That said, I still kind of preferred the rag-tag bunch of misfits feel of the Iserlohn Republic.



One thing that kind of bugged me was Oberstein's death. The idea of him sacrificing himself for Reinhard was somewhat predictable, but I felt it was kind of thrown in towards the end. He didn't really seem to have any real reason to just go and wait out a bombing attempt. But I suppose that can be rationalized as him punishing himself for his morally ambiguous actions and tying up his own loose end for Reinhard.

Also, I couldn't believe how pathetically Legend handled its female characters. It was a constant annoyance/source of amusement to me as I was watching. Out of a literal cast of hundreds, there was only three important women, and only one of them was portrayed as effective and intelligent by her own right.

[Vympel]

One thing that kind of bugged me was Oberstein's death. The idea of him sacrificing himself for Reinhard was somewhat predictable, but I felt it was kind of thrown in towards the end. He didn't really seem to have any real reason to just go and wait out a bombing attempt. But I suppose that can be rationalized as him punishing himself for his morally ambiguous actions and tying up his own loose end for Reinhard.

I'm not sure his intent was to sacrifice himself - it really just could've been blind happenstance. But he was such a source of antagonism amongst Reinhard's other retainers that I can't imagine him serving much purpose beyond Reinhard's death. I can't imagine the Kaiserin would've tolerated his way of doing things.

Also, I couldn't believe how pathetically Legend handled its female characters. It was a constant annoyance/source of amusement to me as I was watching. Out of a literal cast of hundreds, there was only three important women, and only one of them was portrayed as effective and intelligent by her own right.

Yeah, they didn't get much consideration at all. It's a very male centric show.

I'm alternating between Gaiden 3 (Dishonor) and Gaiden 4 (Billion Stars or whatever its called) at the moment - I liked Gaiden 1 and Gaiden 2 but man, Spiral Labyrinth was boring. By the end of it nothing whatsoever had happened, and I didn't care about it either. And it started out promising. Oh well.

Gaiden 4 has started off really cool, Reinhard as a Commodore is interesting.