Star Wars Episode 2.5: The Fall of Reach.

[Jake]

Shortly before the battle of Reach, the UNSC decides that they are tired of being bullied by the covenant. Using a new found forerunner artifact they open up a wormhole that takes them to Coruscant shortly before the battle of Coruscant (clone wars). Palpatine, seeing a chance to gain a second galaxy for the sith, agrees to help the UNSC. As a result, Reach's defenses are upgraded. The UNSC's fleet of 152 ships is replaced by 130 venator class star destroyers and 22 Acclamator I assualt ships. The 20 super MAC guns are replaced by Golan I space defense guns. Longsword fighters are replaced by 500 ARC 170 starfighters. Reach's ground army is replaced by the complement of the Acclamators: 352,000 clone troopers, 7040 74-Z speeder bikes, 1760 LAAT gunships, 1056 AT-TE walkers, and 792 SPHA walkers. The spartans are replaced by Yoda, Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, Plo Koon, Shaak Tii, Agen Kolar, Saesee Tiin, Obi Wan Kenobi, and Anakin Skywalker. The covenant invade Reach as planned, sending in the Fleet of Particular Justice (314 capital ships and 10,000 seraph fighters). Their ground forces include 400,000 elites, 600,000 jackals, 2,000,000 grunts, and `10,000 hunters. Vehicles include: 10,000 ghosts, 5,000 banshees, 2,000 wraiths, and 100 scarabs. WHO.... WILL.... WIN?

[PhilosopherOfSorts]

Pretty sure the Republic takes this, as I don't think the Covenant has anything on hand for this battle that can stand up to the firepower that even a Acclamator can put out.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Covenant space superiority is suddenly a fond memory.

[Adam Reynolds]

[quote="Jake"]Longsword fighters are replaced by 500 ARC 170 starfighters.[/quote]

Why so few and only ARC-170s? Shouldn't the Republic gain the entire compliments of all of the Venator class cruisers. This would give them an additional 24960 V-wing and as well as the same number of Eta-2 Actis Interceptors in addition to 4680 ARC-170s. They would also gain an additional 260,000 clone troopers, as well as 5,200 gunships and 3,120 Walkers.

[Solauren]

I feel the need to correct the posted Force Count, based on what the Venator’s are carrying.

The Total Force count for the Republic backed UNSC forces are…..

7040 74-Z Speeder Bikes
5180 ARC-170 Starfighters (500 as posted, + 4680 from the Venator Star Destroyers)
4176 AT-TEs (1056 as posted, +3120 from the Venators. I assumed AT-TES and not SPHA Walkers)
612,000 Clonetroopers (352,000 as posted, + 260,000 from the Venators)
24960 ETA-2 Actic Class Interceptors
2960 LAAT/I Gunships (1760 as posted, +1200 from the Venator Star Destroyers)
130 Pre-Fab Garrison Bases from the Venators
792 SPHA Walkers
24960 V-Wing or V-19 Torrent Starfighters (probably V-Wings at this point in the war, from the Venators)

Plus, the Space Guns usually carry 24 starfighters each. So add 280 fighters (probably ETA-2’s) to that count.


So, in space, by numbers, the Covenant Fighter are outnumbered 5.51 to 1 (there are 55,100 Republic Starfighters)
That’s not including the technologica/firepower disadvantage.

Odds are, the Covenant space forces are massacared within minutes. The Covenant forces may never make it to the ground, let alone at full strength.
Even if they did, they now have to deal with a great deal of superior armor and firepower, plus the air support of the Republic Starfighters.
Plus orbital gunnery support from the Republic Taskforce.

On top of that, Reach itself is not protected by the shield generators from 130 Republic Garrison bases.


This is fight would be so one sided, it’s not eveny funny. Well, Cartoon violence funny, but that’s about it.

I see the battle going like this.

Covenant forces arrive in orbit of Reach
The Republic forces open fire, and launch all Starfighters.
The Covenant forces wonder what the hell is going on, as the Republic forces guns rip the Covenant fleet to shreds. Given now the Venator’s can put most of their power into their heavy weapons (3.6 x 10e24 watts), they are going to annilate the Covenant forces in a matter of minutes.
While the capital ships are playing, the Republic Starfighters are going to annihilate the Seraph fighters and dropships. I can imagine the V-Wings would have a field day.


Assuming by some lucky or miracle, that the Covenant forces make it to the ground, they might seem to be on more even footing.
Right up until the Republic Starfighters, Bombers, and capital ships begin supplying air support. I can imagine the effect of a Venator’s guns (powered down to be safe for this sort of thing) would have on Covenant vehicles.
Odds are, during the initial Covenant advance, we’d see a high speed fly-over/bomber run by the Republic forces, which would seriously bloody up the Covenant forces. (Which reminds me, do Republic bombers carry Seismic Charges for this sort of thing?). We’d then see some pin-point shooting of the heavier targets from the Starships, followed by another pass by the Republic Fighters.

Assuming there is anything left of the Covenant ground forces, then the Republic Walkers open fire, followed by the Clonetroopers long range heavy weapons.

The end result – The Covenant loses their entire fleet + ground force, and the Republic task Force withdraws in time to fight the Battle of Coruscant, leaving the Golan Space Defense Platforms in place to handle anything else that pops up.

High Charity then gets a surprise visit a few weeks later after the Battle of Coruscant. By an Imperial assault force. Possibly lead by brand-new shinny Imperial Class Star Destroyers. The Covenant capital world is a ball of slag (not just glasses, but slagged) within 6 hours. And the majority of that is the Base Delta Zero operation.

Oh, and Master Chief becomes a Stormtrooper clone template.

[adam_grif]

If it's just ground wars, the UNSC already kicks the shit out of the Covenant, and with a few star destroyers, they suddenly have extreme space superiority too. Not much of a contest, really. Covvy slipspace speeds are 912 ly/day, which is orders of magnitude slower than Wars drives. Cov ship firepower isn't really well known, but we can make a moderately strong inference that they are "much weaker" than a star destroyer pound for pound since it takes entire fleets of them to do what a single star destroyer is capable of.

[Themightytom]

If Master Chief becomes a clone trooper template I think the future Rebellion is fucked.

[Bottlestein]

If Master Chief becomes a clone trooper template I think the future Rebellion is fucked.

To be fair, I believe a lot of the Rebellion's success derived from having Luke, as well as from Palpatine going a bit off the rails and frankly, mismanaging much of the Empire.

[Adam Reynolds]

If Master Chief becomes a clone trooper template I think the future Rebellion is fucked.

How would this make any difference? The Jango based clones were extremely effective, they simply were not present during most of the battles of the OT. And just because the host is extremely effective does not automatically make the clones as effective. Also much of the Master Chief's skill is tied to his armor.

[Themightytom]

If Master Chief becomes a clone trooper template I think the future Rebellion is fucked.

How would this make any difference? The Jango based clones were extremely effective, they simply were not present during most of the battles of the OT. And just because the host is extremely effective does not automatically make the clones as effective. Also much of the Master Chief's skill is tied to his armor.

Actually it wouldn't. i was thinking the enhanced strength reflexes and skeletal structure that lets them run the armor was genetic, but it is all injections or surgery, so unless the cloning process duplicates this, they are just baseline humans. The personality and experience born of decades of military training might be better than that of baseline Jengo the bounty hunter, but they use flash training in the Kamino clones and memory transplant on the later models.

My argument was that clone troopers skillful enough to function effectively wouldn't have resulted in the Emperor dumping the line in favor of Storm Troopers, and Storm troopers with enhanced reflexes strength etc would be enough to turn the tide against the rebellion. The Rebellion ultimately lost because Palpatine got cocky, and the Death Star II in a position where the Ewoks were able to help the rebels take down the shield.

He might have still been dumped down the wishing well he had installed in his throne room, but if the DS II continues wiping out all the ships of the rebellion with all the rebel leaders on them, the Rebellion comes out of it with nothing.

[Sidewinder]

One major advantage Master Chief has as a clone template: We KNOW his body accepts genetic, cybernetic, and other enhancements more readily than most. (The UNSC ended up killing and crippling many of the SPARTAN-IIs while trying to graft these enhancements. As for enhancing Fett clones, the Kaminoans considered this more trouble than it's worth.) That means the Empire can crank out clonetroopers with near-unbreakable bones, super-strength, and reflexes three times faster than a normal human's. If Palpatine's willing to put quality over quantity, the clonetroopers get more physical strength, as well as supercomputer AI support for the "Damn it, get me Technical Support," moments. (Considering the SPARTAN and Covenant shields' vulnerability to plasma weapons, the fact most weapons in Star Wars are plasma weapons, and the fact Star Wars shields aren't practical for personnel protection- one reason is radiation, described here- I doubt the shield will help much.)

[Ghost Rider]

One major advantage Master Chief has as a clone template: We KNOW his body accepts genetic, cybernetic, and other enhancements more readily than most.

From another universe technology. This helps the cloners immensely I'm sure.

[Sidewinder]

One major advantage Master Chief has as a clone template: We KNOW his body accepts genetic, cybernetic, and other enhancements more readily than most.

From another universe technology. This helps the cloners immensely I'm sure.

As part of the SPARTAN program, the SPARTAN-IIs underwent augmentation procedures at the age of fourteen or fifteen.

Procedures
Admiral Ysionris Jeromi documented the following experimental procedures on Bonobo Chimpanzees. These operations were later performed on the SPARTAN-IIs.[1]

Carbide Ceramic Ossification
Description: Advanced material grafting onto skeletal structures to make bones virtually unbreakable. Recommended coverage not to exceed 3% total bone mass because of significant white blood cell necrosis.[1]

Risk(s): Specific risk for pre-and near-postpubescent adolescents: skeletal growth spurts may cause irreparable bone pulverization.[1]

Muscular Enhancement Injections
Description: Protein complex is injected intramuscularly to increase tissue density and decrease lactase recovery time.[1]

Risk(s): 5% of test subjects experience a fatal cardiac volume increase.[1]

Catalytic Thyroid Implant
Description: Platinum pellet containing human growth hormone catalyst is implanted in the thyroid to boost growth of skeletal and muscle tissues.[1]

Risk(s): Rare instances of elephantitis. Suppressed sexual drive.[1]

Occipital Capillary Reversal
Description: Submergence and boosted blood vessel flow beneath the rods and cones of the subject's retina. Produces a marked visual perception increase.[1]

Risk(s): Retinal rejection and detatchment. Permanent blindness.[1]

Superconducting Fibrification of Neural Dendrites
Description: Alteration of bioeletrical nerve transduction to shielded electronic transduction. 300% increase in subject reflexes. Anecdotal evidence of marked increase in intelligence, memory, and creativity.[1]

Risk(s): Significant instances of Parkinson's Disease and Fletcher's Syndrome.[1]

With the possible exception of carbide ceramic ossification and superconducting fibrification- I don't recall what techniques were used to provide these enhancements- the others seem within reach of Star Wars technology. The Republic may be unable to field SPARTAN-II clones in time for the Battle of Coruscant, but the Empire should be able to do so by the time the Death Star is completed.

[Solauren]

A 20 year timeline isn't the unreasonable to reverse engineering the technologies, especially for a civilization with the Empire's resources.

Especially considering the technology was used by what would be the equal of a small corporation within the Empire.

Spartan-II Class Stormtroopers!

Now, if we can just get them some a Iron Man 'War Machine' suit of armor outfitted with Star Wars weapons....

[Ford Prefect]

Pretty sure the Republic takes this, as I don't think the Covenant has anything on hand for this battle that can stand up to the firepower that even a Acclamator can put out.

You know, the Halo Encyclopedia establishes that the UNSC has 1.17 teraton mass drivers and the Covenant melt a planetary surface in The Fall of Reach through bombardment. Personally, I don't really buy any of the high end numbers you can get out of the Halo canon, but there you are.

[adam_grif]

Covvy ships can and do melt at least the surface of planets, but they use fleets of ships to do it, not single ones. This is to say that pound for pound, their planet destroying capabilities are far less impressive than their imperial counterparts. It's a small leap to get from there to "their ships aren't nearly as good", but probably an acceptable one.

[PhilosopherOfSorts]

Yeah, what Adam said, it takes a whole fleet of Covenant ships to perform a task that a single Star Destroyer can do. The UNSC's most powerful mass drivers are built into immobile battlestations, I don't recall any Covenant ships surviving hits from those. The MACs on UNSC vessels tend to require several hits to put Covenant ships down, but the MAC rounds themselves tend to core straight through, transfering only a fraction of its energy and doing relatively little damage unless they hit something vital. That's why the Pillar of Autumn got not only an improved MAC, capable of firing a three round burst, but also improved ammunition, designed to fragment when it hit.

This is not a problem turbolasers would have, since they fire some kind of highly energetic plasma, not big metal slugs.

This wouldn't be a Vs. Star Trek style curb stomp, I'd even expect some losses on the Republic side, but its still pretty far from a fair fight.

[Ford Prefect]

Uh, no, the 1.17 teraton number is given for a ship mounted MAC in the Encyclopedia. The Super MAC platforms are more like 8 teratons per shot. Ghosts of Oynx has a Covenant capital ship of some description bounce a MAC slug off its shield. Seriously, we can fish out all sorts of hilariously stupid numbers for Halo.

EDIT: the destruction of Jericho VII is three dozen Covenant destroyers and cruisers blowing away the atmosphere of the planet in one day. That's, what, seven teratons a second per ship?

EDIT2: Haha, man, I actually kind of forgot how retarded the numbers you can get out of the Halo novels were. And to think, the day was saved by a big green guy with a Vietnam era assault rifle.

[lordofchange13]

This will end like most SW cross overs, the republic fleet will kill the covenant, with both hands behind there backs and a blind fold over there eyes. the unsc will then be taken over and the empire will git jump started a few years.