The Doctor in Warhammer 40,000 Universe

[Broomstick]

Just as an addendum for those who don't know the Doctor - the TV series started in 1963 as an educational (!) kids/family show (with time travel used as a device to illustrate historical events), and these days is much more adult in content though still arguably "family" on some level, but not at all educational. (Let's face it - a lot of what's considered ho-hum today would have been forbidden in the 1960's). 11 different men have portrayed the Doctor on the BBC, and the most recent three weren't even born yet when the show started. Two other have portrayed the Doctor, one in a couple of feature-length movies and another in a made for TV American production that everyone wishes the Doctor would go back and erase from the timeline. With all that going on continuity is pretty hopeless - and that's not even counting the extended universe of novels and, if I recall, there were some radio productions as well in Britain.

So if you ask a question about the Doctor and get contradictory answers that's why - you're going to get that sort of thing when a kid's show never intended to be more than a few years long turns into the longest running SF series in history, spanning several generations.

As an example of how crazy things get - prior to the 2005 resumption of the show, most of it was formatted as multi-episode serials - but there is dispute as to how many serials there are (TVTropes estimates 212 - but acknowledges that there is dispute on the exact number). Season 23, Trial of a Time Lord, for example, can be counted as one really long serial or a collection of four serials with common story arc that runs through all four. And even in the "New Who" there is debate if Utopia is a a stand alone episode or should be grouped with two other that are clearly a two-parter to make a three part serial.

[Ghost Rider]

The silliness of the thought is what is the Doctor really going to do? Fix the Emperor? Defeat the Necrons through logic games? Usually his fores while having grand schemes are just a single fixture he has to discern or dissolve. In the 40K verse he might as well get drunk with the Orks and call it a day for all the good he's going to do as he fixes one problem to have hundreds other unfold.

[Broomstick]

Just as an addendum for those who don't know the Doctor - the TV series started in 1963 as an educational (!) kids/family show (with time travel used as a device to illustrate historical events), and these days is much more adult in content though still arguably "family" on some level, but not at all educational. (Let's face it - a lot of what's considered ho-hum today would have been forbidden in the 1960's). 11 different men have portrayed the Doctor on the BBC, and the most recent three weren't even born yet when the show started. Two other have portrayed the Doctor, one in a couple of feature-length movies and another in a made for TV American production that everyone wishes the Doctor would go back and erase from the timeline. With all that going on continuity is pretty hopeless - and that's not even counting the extended universe of novels and, if I recall, there were some radio productions as well in Britain.

So if you ask a question about the Doctor and get contradictory answers that's why - you're going to get that sort of thing when a kid's show never intended to be more than a few years long turns into the longest running SF series in history, spanning several generations.

As an example of how crazy things get - prior to the 2005 resumption of the show, most of it was formatted as multi-episode serials - but there is dispute as to how many serials there are (TVTropes estimates 212 - but acknowledges that there is dispute on the exact number). Season 23, Trial of a Time Lord, for example, can be counted as one really long serial or a collection of four serials with common story arc that runs through all four. And even in the "New Who" there is debate if Utopia is a a stand alone episode or should be grouped with two other that are clearly a two-parter to make a three part serial.

Adding to the problem is that over 100 of the 700+ episodes filmed have been lost - although all exist at least in audio form the video is gone, and some episode filmed in color only exist as black and white copies. There is a reward offered for anyone finding a missing episode. With that sort of situation, a lot of debate about the early years (the first three doctors) comes out of peoples' memories, which are notoriously unreliable and subject to bias.

[Broomstick]

OK, apologies - meant to edit a post and not re-quote it. And now my edit window is expired. Sorry for the annoyance.

[lordofchange13]

I don't think even the Doctor could save the Imperium. at best he could unite the tau and eldar, in to a utopian sort of sector, the tardis is so advance the eldar might think he's a Old one. he could maybe weaken the warps effect on this universe, but by them the necrons (being the only race with time control powers) would of noticed the Doctor, killing him (all his regenerations). then the necrons learn how the TARDIS works builds more, go back in time and stop the old ones from ever messing with the warp. so in the end the necrons stop the rise of chaos, Eldar, Imperium, and maybe the Tau. What a happy place it will be!

[lordofchange13]

Just as an addendum for those who don't know the Doctor - the TV series started in 1963 as an educational (!) kids/family show (with time travel used as a device to illustrate historical events), and these days is much more adult in content though still arguably "family" on some level, but not at all educational. (Let's face it - a lot of what's considered ho-hum today would have been forbidden in the 1960's). 11 different men have portrayed the Doctor on the BBC, and the most recent three weren't even born yet when the show started. Two other have portrayed the Doctor, one in a couple of feature-length movies and another in a made for TV American production that everyone wishes the Doctor would go back and erase from the timeline. With all that going on continuity is pretty hopeless - and that's not even counting the extended universe of novels and, if I recall, there were some radio productions as well in Britain.

So if you ask a question about the Doctor and get contradictory answers that's why - you're going to get that sort of thing when a kid's show never intended to be more than a few years long turns into the longest running SF series in history, spanning several generations.

As an example of how crazy things get - prior to the 2005 resumption of the show, most of it was formatted as multi-episode serials - but there is dispute as to how many serials there are (TVTropes estimates 212 - but acknowledges that there is dispute on the exact number). Season 23, Trial of a Time Lord, for example, can be counted as one really long serial or a collection of four serials with common story arc that runs through all four. And even in the "New Who" there is debate if Utopia is a a stand alone episode or should be grouped with two other that are clearly a two-parter to make a three part serial.

Utopia should be classed with the othere 2 episodes. the 2 next episodes are exact continuation of Utopia which is EXSTREMLY uncommon for the 2005 doctor who.

[Interlord1]

I don't think that the necrons could reverse engineer a Tardis for the same reason the Federation can't reverse engineer a Star wars hyperdrive, To reverse engineer it you need to understand the base principles it stands on. Try giving a car engine to a caveman and tell him to figure out how it works. Plus for the Necrons to kill him involves finding him, which can be rather tricky considering he can be anywhere at anytime. And then if they do find him, but he's in the Tardis they will have to deal with the Tardis' nearly indestructable shields.

[Rossum]

Time Lords have access to some pretty powerful technologies (read: Deux Ex Machina Plot Devices) that could cause some serious problems for whoever is on the Doctors bad side.

The Family of Blood featured him putting a family of otherwise short-lived aliens through various Fates Worse Than Death. The Father was chained with unbreakable chains forged in a sun, the Mother was sent into orbit around an imploding galaxy, the Son was put into stasis and disguised as a scarecrow where he would presumably watch over the fields of Britain for all eternity, and the Daughter was somehow trapped in every mirror in the world. I know, that sort of stuff is really out there but they seem like the sort of curses that one could easily get away with in the 40k universe.

Then, in the two episodes where the daleks fight the cybermen, the Doctor was able to reverse the polarity on the device the Torchwood staff was using to manipulate the rift to the void. With a flip of the switch he was able to banish both the daleks and cybermen into the void... pretty deux ex machina but it does the trick. On the same note, he was able to use his sonic screwdriver to mess with one villains teleportation to keep her from running away. I'd say that with enough prep time and equipment, the Doctor could cobble together some plot device tech capable of messing with anyones attempt at teleportation.

Necrons show up? He pulls out a box that remote activates their "I'll be back." feature and sends them back to wherever they came from. They try again, he sends them back again. Repeat forever until the necrons give up or the Doctor gets board and puts one of those drinking bird toys on a desk and makes it keep pressing the "send Necrons away" button. The same could go for any sort of Warp technology, remote activated technobabble device makes ships suddenly fly back into the warp and go somewhere hilarious.

Then there are the devices the Master was able to get his hands on. That mind control device that let him take over the Earth by playing the sound of drums in everyones ears (granted, it only let him become the Prime Minister but its still something) the fact that the same control field let the Doctor absorb the faith of everyone on Earth and thus save the day (though deux ex machina) means that he could use it for less mind-controly means.

Then there are the nanites that turned people into gas mask monsters and that planet-healing device the Master was able to rewire. The Master was able to turn every human on Earth into a copy of himself (though to be fair it was using a device made by someone else). Either one of those devices in the hands of a Time Lord could be rewired to do something that could drastically change an entire planet.


Though... I think if the Doctor wanted to solve all of the problems in the 40k universe he would have a few options:

1). Revive the God Emperor of Mankind - From what I've heard, the God Emperor was a scientist and pretty decent guy and he's currently stuck in a state between life and death on the Golden Throne (and requires the sacrifice of lots and lots of psychers a day). If the Doctor was able to get close enough to the Throne to examine it he could probably wire up something to solve the problem. One option could involve sacrificing one of his regenerations to revive the God Emperor somehow. The Doctor has knowledge of the regeneration process because he was able to work out what was going wrong in the Lazerus Experiment and in an old series episode he was willing to sacrifice a few regenerations to allow some immortal but sick aliens to die. The Time Lords once offered to give the Master a new set of regenerations if he would help them in a task. The Master was currently possessing the body of another person at the time.

So yeah, it wouldn't be too far-fetched for the Doctor to revive the God Emperor somehow. Either burn a regeneration to resurrect him, use some nanites or similar tech to revive him, or work out a way to give the God Emperors powers to someone else so that they could lead mankind and it would stop the "senseless sacrifice of all those with psychic powers". If he goes the Replace the Emperor route then I think he'd either give the powers to one of the psychers who would otherwise be sacrficed or he would give them to Ciaphas Cain (Just because the very idea would horrify Cain and I don't know any other characters in 40k).


2). Mess with the Warp Gods - The Warp Gods hold a lot of power and I think they reflect the psychic energy and thought of the galaxy. There used to be good Warp Gods, but they were changed by the bloodshed and things got worse from there. Nurgle is the god of pestilence and apparently a pretty good guy aside from the horrible death he spreads.

The Doctor could learn about them and would use the Tardis to enter the warp and meet some of them face to face. No idea if Time Lord physiology would give him any protection from Nurgles disease but he could probably whip up something. Once he meets up with the Warp Gods he could find the ones who at least desire to become good and give them some way to filter out the emotional energy they absorb... then the Warp Gods become good and start altering the galaxy through the Warp. The various Warp and Chaos entities would go through a dramatic shift, good ones spreading while evil ones being imprisoned or relocated to places where they couldn't bother anyone. Warp Demons stop trying to kill people and travel through the Warp becomes somewhat different.

Who knows, maybe one of the good Warp Gods would take control over the Warp and ensure that battleships cant travel safely across the galaxy. With the Warp off-limits to warships then all the factions that rely on Warp travel would be unable to stage the massive battles that lay waste to the galaxy.

3). Reintroduce the Scientific Method - Find one of the Imperium world that aren't quite as barbaric as the rest and find one of those few scientific minds in the Imperium. There would probably be a huge war fleet on the way to attack the planet and the Doctor could whip up some sort of device to control Warp travel to and from the system. Doctor sets up a protective barrier that lets the scientific minds live in peace under their protective dome and then goes off to the next planet. If his protective doodad is good enough to keep the scientists from getting murdered by monsters or burned as heretics by the Imperium then it could allow them to spread across the galaxy by building more planetary defence fields and setting them up on the various world being settled across the Imperium.

Then the Doctor flies off and says something about perfect defense always winning against perfect offense and flies off never to be seen again and not really bothering to see if anyone on that planet survives the next week.



Though it makes me wonder, how would the Master fare in the 40k universe if his goal was to take over the galaxy? I suspect that if the Doctor was there as well then the two of them would agree that the galaxy was seriously messed up. The Master might want to conquer it and the Doctor would want to bring peace to it... though the Doctor wouldn't want either himself or the Master actually controlling the galaxy once it was made peaceful.

[Uncluttered]

1). Revive the God Emperor of Mankind - From what I've heard, the God Emperor was a scientist and pretty decent guy and he's currently stuck in a state between life and death on the Golden Throne (and requires the sacrifice of lots and lots of psychers a day). If the Doctor was able to get close enough to the Throne to examine it he could probably wire up something to solve the problem. One option could involve sacrificing one of his regenerations to revive the God Emperor somehow. The Doctor has knowledge of the regeneration process because he was able to work out what was going wrong in the Lazerus Experiment and in an old series episode he was willing to sacrifice a few regenerations to allow some immortal but sick aliens to die. The Time Lords once offered to give the Master a new set of regenerations if he would help them in a task. The Master was currently possessing the body of another person at the time.

Argh. I wish I thought of adding that little detail!

[lordofchange13]

Either way, the Time Lords could easily win against everything in 40K - with the remotely possible exception of the Necrons.

The Time Lords could bend the Necrons over and...well, lets just say that time travel means the Necrons are in for a horrible time.

Necrons have at least a limited control over time.
The Time Lords are still going to win, i am just saying that they won't necessarily completely steamroll them like they would with non-time sensitive races.

what about the armys of chaos? Tzeentch is abile to see the future could he not see all the doctors moves before he makes them?

[Rossum]

Hmm... in the "Rise of the Cybermen"/"Age of Steel" episodes the Doctor was able to power a piece of the Tardis by giving up some of his life force (I think he said something like shaving a few years off his life). So it seems that in an emergency the Doctor is able to do stuff by sacrificing some of his life force or using up regenerations. Heck, in the Stolen Earth was went through a failed regeneration and ended up regrowing his severed hand into a time lord/human hybrid copy thing.

Given the weird tech they have in 40k, if the Doctor finds himself under the knife of someone suitably twisted they could hack off bits of him and try cloning their own Doctor. They could have Space Doctors that have bits of the Doctors brain or heart or liver surgically implanted into them to turn them into super intelligent pawns of the Imperium.

The Imperium might just see him as some kind of ideal human and solve the "Last of the Time Lords" bit by cloning him and starting a breeding program. Then, the Imperium has citizens who can live for eons naturally, regenerate from death, and develop absurdly powerful technology (or do even weirder stuff with 40k tech). This does raise a question of what would happen if the Tyranids were to get ahold of his DNA or if those bird things that allied with the Tau were able to take a bite out of him.

Also, can't Space Marines get information from somebodies brain by eating it? If the Doctor dies and theres anyone around who knows how vauable his DNA and brain is then the "sometimes come back with no head" joke he said offhand to Rose might take on a new meeting. Hell, he regrew his hand when it was cut off shortly after one of his regenerations so who knows what kind of trouble he could get into if he gets shot in Warhammer.

[Lord Relvenous]

what about the armys of chaos? Tzeentch is abile to see the future could he not see all the doctors moves before he makes them?

Tzeentch is anything but infallible when it comes to seeing the future. If he was, he would have remained supreme when he became the most powerful Chaos god (as all Chaos gods have had their moments at the top, and the hierarchy is ever resetting.)

[Parallax]

I think it would be agreed that the best incarnation to handle such a situation would be the 7th (played by Sylvester McCoy), simply because he is arguably the most intelligent but certainly the most ruthless and cunning of the Doctors - he also seems to be able to form the best plans. And if those plans involve wiping out an entire solar system, he doesn't really seem to care (see 'Remembrance of the Daleks').

10 would be next to useless but others, such as 3 or 4, could have a decent chance. 11 also seems to have a good track record thus far.

But none of them possess the ruthlessness and manipulative-bastard trait that the 7th does/did. If we allow EU Who (novels, etc) into the mix then the 8th would also have a good chance. In 'The Gallifrey Chronicles', the Doctor taking down a massive empire led by a power suit wearing warlord is treated as a low key warm up for the TARDIS crew.

An excerpt:

"Crallan!" He yelled. "Crallan, what in the name of the seven Systems is happening?"
His Chancellor ran into the room , already cowering, almost tripping over his dark grey robes.
"My Lord Mondova."
"What are my bodyguards?"
"They've fled, my lord."
"Scum! I knew they would be unreliable. That's why I had my Kyborgs built. Deploy them in the streets. Wipe out this resistance."
"The Kyborgs legion changed allegiance to the rebel, my lord. That's why the bodyguards fled."
Mondova hesitated.
"Then I have no choice. Call in the space fleet. Order them to atomise the city."
"The space fleet has gone, my lord."
"Gone? Gone where?"
Crallan shrugged. "We haven't managed to figure that one out yet."
"It is the most powerful space navy in the galaxy. It has snuffed out stars, Crallan. Civilisations spanning whole sectors of space have surrendered at the mere thought I would launch my fleet against them. It has campaigned, unbeaten, for over two centuries."
"No longer, sir. It's ... gone."

And, quite literally, the Doctor only arrived on that planet that morning. By the end of the day, Mondova's empire was shattered.

[NecronLord]

Necrons show up? He pulls out a box that remote activates their "I'll be back." feature and sends them back to wherever they came from. They try again, he sends them back again.

Canonical technologies only or you're spamming. You want to write a fanfic, it's the wrong forum for that. Also, it's phase out you're thinking of. "Ill be back" is the phrase for their self-repair.

1). Revive the God Emperor of Mankind - From what I've heard, the God Emperor was a scientist and pretty decent guy

At which point the Emperor takes the Doctor's mind and 'tastes' it to learn his secrets. He was a scientist certainly, he was also a secularist - neither makes him good. The Emperor was also an absolute monster worse than a million Hitlers and a ginormous cockhole personally. He built an Empire of intolerance and evil, deliberately. It was just a different empire of intolerance and evil.

The Doctor could learn about them and would use the Tardis to enter the warp and meet some of them face to face.

That's another mind-rip done on him right there.

3). Reintroduce the Scientific Method

Why? The Imperium's problems aren't its science, they're its inhumanity and cruelty. It had the scientific method in the 31st Millennium, it was still a terrible place.

[lordofchange13]

what about the armys of chaos? Tzeentch is abile to see the future could he not see all the doctors moves before he makes them?

Tzeentch is anything but infallible when it comes to seeing the future. If he was, he would have remained supreme when he became the most powerful Chaos god (as all Chaos gods have had their moments at the top, and the hierarchy is ever resetting.)

yes the power is all ways switching but none of the gods has ever all out become the best for even a second, if that were to happen the chaos codex says chaos will ces to be. but TZeentch is still master of time even with the necrons around,so i think it likly he will notice the doctor and brain blast him a new one.

[lordofchange13]

1). Revive the God Emperor of Mankind - From what I've heard, the God Emperor was a scientist and pretty decent guy

At which point the Emperor takes the Doctor's mind and 'tastes' it to learn his secrets. He was a scientist certainly, he was also a secularist - neither makes him good. The Emperor was also an absolute monster worse than a million Hitlers and a ginormous cockhole personally. He built an Empire of intolerance and evil, deliberately. It was just a different empire of intolerance and evil.

the imperium back thin is discribed as being cold and logical, all rlegions and superstitions are gone. one of the older codexs talkes about a few aliens that are alies with the imperium.

[NecronLord]

They had slavery and testing virus bomb weapons on 'heretics' and conquering planets for daring to want to live with the alien in peace and things like that. They were shit-bags.


Offhand, the best candidates I know of are the Selaacan Empire, a small polity somewhat behind Imperial military ground technology, and with interplanetary capability, from one of the Soul Drinkers books, who while they had a monarchy (though they may have also had democracy for all we know) and some poverty, but were basically genuinely nice guys. They were exterminated by necrons.

If the Doctor could pick anyone to beef up, simply training the Selaacans to build the stellar technology of Whoniverse standards and telling them to conquer the galaxy (and beyond) with it would probably work (they're already pretty badass on the ground) and their limited numbers could easily be sorted out by mass defections from the Imperium (far superior space technology will do that). But he wouldn't know about them, and likely never would, unless he landed there by chance.

You'd need to ensure they didn't fall to Chaos, but bringing in the Eldar to teach them to defend themselves from chaos (this worked for some cultures, who were able to reject chaos, prior to the Great Crusade, see the Interex in Horus Rising) would do the trick.

Eventually they'd also be given a complete and functional STC archive computer by the monks on Hito who are hiding one from the Imperium because they think the Imperium too uncivilized.

Just go back to the year 35,999 long before they were destroyed and spend a few thousand years helping them develop their technology. Hey presto:

It is the Forty First Millennium, for more than fifty centuries the Emperors of Mankind have ruled benevolently across the Great and Bountiful Selaacan Empire, a galaxy spanning entity incorporating tens of millions of worlds and millions of sapient species from the Noble Eldar to the Warlike Enoulians. From the Vieled Region at the fringe of the galaxy, to the Halo Star at the other, the Empire's citizens are masters of the galaxy by the might of their invincible fleets and near limitless wealth.

Nonetheless, this cosmopolitan Empire maintains eternal vigilance. Mighty battle fleets cross hyper-space and patrol warp storms, guided by hyper-wave communications. Vast armies give battle on countless worlds. Greatest among these warriors are the Iron Men, restored super warriors of a forgotten age. Their comrades in arms are legion: the Imperial Guard and countless planetary defense forces of a million species, the ever-vigilant Intelligence Taskforce to name only a few. In such strength they are easily enough to hold off the ever-present threat from psychotic aliens such as the Necrontyr, the Dark Eldar, the Slaugth, the Tyranids - and worse.

To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the wisest and most enlightened regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the fear of darkness and destruction, for so much has been re-learned, never to be forgotten. The promise of progress and understanding links the galaxy, for in the distant future, anything is possible. There is darkness amongst the stars, that would inflict an eternity of carnage and slaughter, but there is also courage, and strength far beyond what such darkness can muster.

The thing is, the Doctor does not know these things. Knowledge is power - if he had this knowledge, even the First Doctor could sort the galaxy out (in fact, he'd probably be the best, he had an excellent knack for getting himself into the courts of kings and emperors and high priests and earning their trust.)

[Serafina]

Any evidence for capabilities of the Second Great and Bountiful Human Empire?

[NecronLord]

Any evidence for capabilities of the Second Great and Bountiful Human Empire?

Civillian-accessible inter-galactic transport, three galaxies colonised. I'm also assuming it's the empire mentioned in the various 51st Century bits, which has sophisticated time travel, the ability for rich private individuals to hollow out and ecumenopolis earthlike planets, interstellar transporters, and the ability to destroy (mass scatter) planets (which in some versions of Doctor Who Earth had as early as 1986(!!!!))

And yes, the Doctor has generally been extremely proficient in operating all of it, and he travels with a large library including scientific knowledge of his universe.

[Serafina]

Okay, that deduction makes sense. I just did not recall many demonstrated capabilities from the episodes where that empire is mentioned directly.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Okay, that deduction makes sense. I just did not recall many demonstrated capabilities from the episodes where that empire is mentioned directly.

Keep in mind a good deal of what is described comes form the original Dr.Who as well. A great amount of the 3rd doctors later episodes took place in "the great Human Empire" and regularly referenced war against "The Three Galaxies" which was evidently the Galactic Unions chief opponent during the 50th + century.

[Darth Hoth]

Doctor Who isn't the kind of science fiction that puts importance on stupid weapons yields or asteroid vaporizations and comparing penis lengths measured in gigamegapaleo-tons or whatever. Surprise, but it's actually the kind of science fiction that has more emphasis in story and characterization, sometimes ridiculously, sometimes seriously. It can seem like science fantasy lots of times, but other times it can also delve into comedy, or horror and suspense, and such things.

It's one of my favorite shows.

What kind of sci-fi are you watching otherwise that does put importance on weapons yields and power generation?? From Star Trek onwards, on every series that I have watched in my magic television-box, the writers can as often as not hardly even be bothered enough with those to keep them halfway consistent over a season or two.

[Uncluttered]

Frankly. The WH40K universe is exactly the kind of grimdark space opera that Dr. Who specializes in fucking with.

"The ultimate character shield" is the doctors true power. Not the TARDIS, not the sonic screwdriver or even regeneration. Those are trinkets. This is a man who can ignore his own causality.

Has anyone actually tried to quantify character shields? It would be an interesting project. Not just Dr. Who, but quantify the character shields of Kirk, Darth, Mal, Steve Jobs, etc.

[Ghost Rider]

Frankly. The WH40K universe is exactly the kind of grimdark space opera that Dr. Who specializes in fucking with.

Which as Necron points out, he'll either do it earlier, because he's shown capability in earlier forms

"The ultimate character shield" is the doctors true power. Not the TARDIS, not the sonic screwdriver or even regeneration. Those are trinkets. This is a man who can ignore his own causality.

Has anyone actually tried to quantify character shields? It would be an interesting project. Not just Dr. Who, but quantify the character shields of Kirk, Darth, Mal, Steve Jobs, etc.

What is there to quantify? It's a notion that the writer allows said character to either fail or succeed within the narrative.

May as well as ask how to quantify the purple sexual aura on an angel.