Religion and supersoldier/Soldier boosts

[Rogue 11]

Yeah. Another one of those damn supersoldier threads .

Right. For an universe I'm making I've made the decision that first world militaries (And any less prosperous ones with the resources) have started enhancing their soldiers with various biological and technological means.

This is meant to be universal for all soldiers. And while exact package isn't worked out me and some friends I asked about it have narrowed down that the four most important mods by far would seem to be Stamina (Physical at very least, mental if at all possible), Improved immunity (Just the ability to drink more sources of water without fearing disease is a big help, as well as resisting local diseases and if they really did their job well biowarfare but that one is probably iffy), Improved Healing (at least with medical help. Getting a soldier back on his feet faster and with less chance of an injury leaving permanent problems) and innate communications. (Something like MGS Codec probably http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Codec )

Anything else is a nice bonus but honestly given the limits in setting probably not exactly that massive an edge. I'd take suggestions outside of the basic Faster/Stronger/better senses BTW. Especially stuff that's useful for other branches than Army.

And also if you got reasonable excuses for it to work. I'm not skilled enough in the relevant field of sciences to make up a really plausible sounding way for most of it so I'm more focused on the What than the How.

Anyway. Such a situation is obviously a major change to the human body. Which a lot of religious groups aren't very fond of. Would this sort of big push a lot of religious people away from the military?

Or would we be more likely to see an opt out system? In which case we'd be likely to see those opting out stuck at home in various REMF positions as they'd struggle to keep up in the field with boosted people and would have to have a lot of special care taken for them exclusivly when deploying abroad into less than perfect conditions.

[Aaron]

Just make it a requirement for enlistment, if you have religious objections, you don't get in.

[Simon_Jester]

This kind of system is liable to be expensive, though; the augmentations might only be given out with the equivalent of Advanced Infantry Training, simply because it's a waste of money to give the logistics personnel and airbase ground crew the boosts.

Another question is that of demobilization: what happens when your genetically enhanced cyborgs leave the military? Are any of their special abilities going to be a problem for them or others in civilian life?

[Rogue 11]

Another question is that of demobilization: what happens when your genetically enhanced cyborgs leave the military? Are any of their special abilities going to be a problem for them or others in civilian life?

They can be removed albeit it's close to as expensive as installing them. So SOP is to no forcibly remove them except for dishonorable discharges. Of course if you keep them you are pretty much added as to the top preferred list for call ups in case of general mobilization.

And I'm intending to avoid abilities that'd be a problem in civillian life. These guys aren't meant to be Halo Spartans or Space Marines.

The intention behind this setting is really a case where I take a lot of typical super comic book ideas and apply them widely without the usual trappings of masked superheroes or villains. Integrate it into the world proper instead of as a small weird part of the word running around in tights.

So these guys are the result of the various supersoldier programs that always seem to show up as an origin for a couple of them and refined down to where it can be safely applied to the majority of the military.

Edit:

Forgot:

Just make it a requirement for enlistment, if you have religious objections, you don't get in.

How well would excluding that many religious against playing good go over in say... The US? I get the distinct impression that exclusion wouldn't go well.

[Mr Bean]

Here's another one, how big are the enhancements? In Mass Effect to take one example the gene modifications uses what's already there and enhacement packages don't produce superhumans but they do produce "peak" humans. IE Your average grunt can go through gene moding and come out someone who could be a first round draft star linebacker for the NFL because of the combination of speed/agility/raw physical power. They will not however be using tanks as hand to hand combat weapons.

How much enhancement do they give? To the limits of the human bodies endurance? Or do they push it beyond and start getting into skeletal upgrading/replacement and embedded artificial muscles and the like. You would agree that an augmentation system that simply produces people who could compete in a modern Olympics and win is much less objectionable than Space Marine style total augmentation.

[Aaron]

How well would excluding that many religious against playing good go over in say... The US? I get the distinct impression that exclusion wouldn't go well.

Well your not excluding groups of folks, your not saying "if your Catholic, you can't join". Your saying "if you have religious objections", in other words it's up to the individual to make that decision. Really you can extend that to anyone, "if you object to being augmented, don't join up." I'm sure you would find people that have objections to it other then religious ones.

[Jaevric]

It sounds like he's shooting for "peak human" augmentations. Maybe a little beyond, but he specifically says he's not trying to make HALO Spartans or Space Marines. Most of the augmentations mentioned so far wouldn't be terribly objectionable in civlian life unless the person was playing professional sports (and most of the other players weren't upgraded).

An internal communications system I'd expect to be popular even among civilians (if they could afford it) given how attached people IRL are getting to their smartphones and laptops.

The other augmentation I'd suggest is in the area of perfect-to-slightly-upgraded human eyesight; it wouldn't be able to make people see in the dark (short of removing the eyes and replacing them with optical augmetics, which I think a LOT of people would have problems with), but you might get slightly enhanced night vision and "perfect" human vision without too much difficulty. Definitely a useful upgrade.

In terms of the religious reactions, I'd think you'd see a lot of resentment from religious people either way; if they aren't allowed to serve in the military because they don't want to be upgraded, they'll claim they're being treated as second-class citizens. If they are allowed to serve in the military but only in REMF roles, you'll get whining about how they cannot be promoted as fast as the guys who actually do see combat (at least during wartime). It might actually be interesting to see a society where the extremely religious were effectively a "permanent underclass" because of their refusal to take advantage of medical improvements to the human body, but modifications would have to be widespread outside of the military for that to happen.

[Rogue 11]

That was pretty much exactly what I started writing before you replied. Mostly peak, somewhat beyond in some areas. But in that general area of enhancement. Improvement beyond human norm are incremental in most those cases.

Some I don't think are doable within human norms. Like improved recovery. While I'm not talking wolverine the wish was to get months down to weeks. And seriously reduce the chances of lasting ill effects like if you are say shot in the arm. AFAIK a lot of people have lasting problems with that due to muscle and nerve damage. This would be a case of something I can't really see as being merely incrementally beyond human norms either.

Some while they would seem nice might be a bad idea to take beyond human norms. Like immune system. Sure you don't get ill easilly, but your body might become a breeding ground for hardier viruses that eat unenhanced immune systems for breakfast. Not my area of expertise that.

I figure that wireless implanted may not entirely replace handheld. They might well not be as applications friendly:P

Note that everything a soldier keeps while mustering out I figure is legally availible, but fairly expensive to do on your own and I can't think of a nation in the world that would allow that under public health care.

Well. Maybe Switzerland

[Shroom Man 777]

This is meant to be universal for all soldiers. And while exact package isn't worked out me and some friends I asked about it have narrowed down that the four most important mods by far would seem to be Stamina (Physical at very least, mental if at all possible), Improved immunity (Just the ability to drink more sources of water without fearing disease is a big help, as well as resisting local diseases and if they really did their job well biowarfare but that one is probably iffy), Improved Healing (at least with medical help. Getting a soldier back on his feet faster and with less chance of an injury leaving permanent problems)

Mild biological/organic optimization, specifically towards the body's metabolic processes. Improve the immune system by improving the metabolism, which also likewise improves healing. The exact workings are a mystery to me, but somehow optimizing it would be good. Perhaps a reservoir of nano-optimized antibodies (some kind of wonderful pharmaceutical miracle?). Or, maybe, just some kind of super-optimized source of nutrition and sustenance? They eat some kind of superfood, optimized with all the necessary nutrients plus a lot of antibodies for passive acquired immunity? Just, some kind of metabolic optimization (perhaps nanomachines allow more precise control of the brain's metabolic control centers?)? More energy means more stamina, and when injured the energy is instead redirected to healing or immune system stuff? Perhaps a symbiotic colony of bionanites that help deal with the body's wasteproducts, or convert it to more useful things that the body can metabolize and use for energy.

Get back to writing that Harry Potter/Metal Gear Solid crossover.