starcraft verses alpha quadrant

[Cpt_Frank]

IIRC they say 'Zerg casualties are numbering in the millions', not billions.

[Anarchist Bunny]

The UED victory one and the Mensk video were propaganda videos, but there would be no reason to fake the power of their weaponry, they would show only SoK victories but they would have no reason to set up some elaborate hoax to show that the yamato cannon is uber powerful when they aren't new, and the public probly knows what they can do seeing how often the region has been in war.

Also no the gameplay can't be taken for cannon. The cutscenes have shown that size in the game is messed up, and yes the game is very balance, thats exactly why the gameplay can't be used, the creators made it so they all equally match. And no everyone having a one-hit kill ability would not be balancing, it would be warcraft 1 and 2, balancing would be that each has strengths and weaknesses that don't allow the others to be more powerful than it, like zergs large numbers and cheap costs for weaker units.

[lgot]

Well,
they do not show in the cutscenes the Yamato Cannon is uber powerful. They show it is powerful.
And COunting the number of zerg deaths ? That is the easy lie, because hardly anyone would ever be able to figure out this number.
Plus, we have examples in literature like 1984 or real life like Nazists of people using false propaganda to lure the population. Why would not that be possible ??

The Cutscenes are not that different from the game. The only ship we can compare is Battlecruiser, which is bigger than the gameplay but not that messed up.
Plus, you wrong
The Nuclear attack is a one-hit to kill.
The mind control is a hit to kill (defeat)
The Balance does not come from limitation of power, but the high cost and time to build up the most powerfull stuff, since the key to play the game is speed.

[Cpt_Frank]

The Cutscenes are not that different from the game. The only ship we can compare is Battlecruiser, which is bigger than the gameplay but not that messed up.
Plus, you wrong
The Nuclear attack is a one-hit to kill.
The mind control is a hit to kill (defeat)
The Balance does not come from limitation of power, but the high cost and time to build up the most powerfull stuff, since the key to play the game is speed.

God did you even play SC? The Nuke destroys units but not the buildings, that's not exactly a one-hit kill weapon. The Mind Controll is perhaps the only true one.
And the Cutscenes are vastly different from the game in terms of size, and power.
Battlecruisers (as you already pointed out) are much bigger, and they even have hangars in which the wraiths land. That is show during a cutscene. Do you now believe that the starfighters can not land there because they don't do it during the game?
I will not accept anything in-game apart from storyline and units.

[Sea Skimmer]

Star Craft nukes do Either 500 points worth of Damage, or 2/3's damage to a given target, which ever is greater. If we use game play as canon, then The Terran have a weapon which can do an infinite amount of damage, since no matter how strong a target is, its always going to lose at least 2/3 of its hit points.

[starfury]

God did you even play SC? The Nuke destroys units but not the buildings, that's not exactly a one-hit kill weapon. The Mind Controll is perhaps the only true one.
And the Cutscenes are vastly different from the game in terms of size, and power.
Battlecruisers (as you already pointed out) are much bigger, and they even have hangars in which the wraiths land. That is show during a cutscene. Do you now believe that the starfighters can not land there because they don't do it during the game?
I will not accept anything in-game apart from storyline and units.

do you also accept that they have 100% accuary and that airplanes behave like hovertanks, do you accept that they never run-out of ammo, like Cpt-Frank the only in-game I will accept is storyline and units.

[lgot]

God did you even play SC? The Nuke destroys units but not the buildings, that's not exactly a one-hit kill weapon. The Mind Controll is perhaps the only true one.
And the Cutscenes are vastly different from the game in terms of size, and power.
Battlecruisers (as you already pointed out) are much bigger, and they even have hangars in which the wraiths land. That is show during a cutscene. Do you now believe that the starfighters can not land there because they don't do it during the game?
I will not accept anything in-game apart from storyline and units.

There is a few buldings that can be killed by a nuke but that is not the point. Its kill all unities in the game in one shot. Or do you mind control Buldings ? Its funny. You accept the mind control , which stop one unity of the enemy but not the nucler which can stop every single unity in the area of effect ? Make peace with your logic.

They are not vastly. You people picked the Battlecruiser. Ok, Which is the size in the cutscenes and in the game ? The power of the yamato showed in the game and outside it are slighty similar.
I do not remember the wraiths landing in a battlecruiser, but that is not what i said. THe game shows very little different apart of the obvious gaming limitations. Its not necessary to left it apart. The game is a source of information as well and leaving it apart is a problem for a game where we already have limited information.

[Cpt_Frank]

There is a few buldings that can be killed by a nuke but that is not the point. Its kill all unities in the game in one shot. Or do you mind control Buldings ? Its funny. You accept the mind control , which stop one unity of the enemy but not the nucler which can stop every single unity in the area of effect ? Make peace with your logic.

The difference is: the Nuke itself costs money. And the Nuke alone is useless, you need a ghost to direct it.
And most of the time no units are killed when nukes are deployed, since they fleet. Although in pure theory units can be killed by nukes.
The Mind Control is the true one-hit kill weapon, it only costs a bit of energy.

THe game shows very little different apart of the obvious gaming limitations. Its not necessary to left it apart. The game is a source of information as well and leaving it apart is a problem for a game where we already have limited information.

You seem to be the only one who is of this opinion, and so far you've provided no satisfactory reason why we should take in-game unit/building stats as canon. It is much more logical to take only the stroyline and the units themselves, the manual, and the cutscenes as canon, since they are depict SC's reality.

[Cpt_Frank]

I do not remember the wraiths landing in a battlecruiser, but that is not what i said.

Just to set that aside, I went on the search and found a pic:


That one shows the Behemoth's hangars, 8 in total (4 on each side of the 'head').[/quote]

[lgot]

The difference is: the Nuke itself costs money. And the Nuke alone is useless, you need a ghost to direct it.
And most of the time no units are killed when nukes are deployed, since they fleet. Although in pure theory units can be killed by nukes.
The Mind Control is the true one-hit kill weapon, it only costs a bit of energy.

Well, no one said about the cost of the one-hit kill weapon. Just said there is no one. You already agreed the protoss have one and the nukes are one, after all, you need ghosts to one, you need archos to the others. And any unity hit by it is killed in one shot, but that is not necessary.
You have just agreed with my point about this "no one-hit-kill" things in the game. I can be ok with that...

About the Game, you do not to need to get obvious features for gaming (they do not fire when walking or the limit of unities)...
But cannt we dismiss that
We know which unities are faster or not because the gaming ? The zerg style of attack ? The most resistent buldings ? The attacks with biggest range ? This is all show in the gaming and in no way the scenes or the manual say otherwise. Am I wrong there ?

Plus, good thing putting the pics. Do this page have pics of all cutscenes or this is just the blizzard page again ? It would be much more helpful if everytime someone say a feature of the movie we could see it.

[Cpt_Frank]

Both Nuke and Mind Control are one-hit kill weapons with very special limitations. Both the Nuke and the Mind control aren't the same as a Battlecruiser's standard canon obliterating every unit with a single shot.

We know which unities are faster or not because the gaming ? The zerg style of attack ? The most resistent buldings ? The attacks with biggest range ? This is all show in the gaming and in no way the scenes or the manual say otherwise. Am I wrong there ?

Zerg style of attack: nice question. In the game, Hydralisks only spit their armor piercing spines. In the cutscenes, they also slash with the claws.
Conclusion is they probably have both attacks.
And building/unit hp and attack range may be in the right reation
(battlecruiser has much more than fighter, supply depot much less than command center) but I wouldn't take the exact numbers as canon.
I also take the unit's speed with a pinch of salt. The starships would all be much to slow. With the in-game acceleteration, it'd take them a long tome to acheive a decent sublight speed. Alternatively it may be possible the starships aren't able to move faster when operation in planetary atmosphere.

As for the weapons yields, a small example: in the game, the Yamato canon does 260 damage. A BC has 500 HP. Therefore, he must already have lost half of it's HP before the Yamato can kill him instantly. Having lost half of the HP already is vast damage, according to the in-game wireframe models.(many red and yellow markings).
So, in the video, did the confederate BC look as if it had already received massive punishment?
Nope, the ship looked undamaged.
So either you didn't see the damage which had already been done to the ship (rather unlikely), or the Yamato canon is able to kill a BC with a single shot. Would Bliz include that in the game? Of course not, that would imbalance!


Hmm, where did I get the pic... I'll have to search the page again.
Until I find it, I hope you enjoy this pretty BC:

[lgot]

Both Nuke and Mind Control are one-hit kill weapons with very special limitations. Both the Nuke and the Mind control aren't the same as a Battlecruiser's standard canon obliterating every unit with a single shot.

As my point was about the existence of One-hit kill weapons in SC, then i does not matter.

But So does the Yamato Gun that also have limitations. It even can be stoped by a mind control which is the one with less cost limitation and more powerful.

Zerg style of attack: nice question. In the game, Hydralisks only spit their armor piercing spines. In the cutscenes, they also slash with the claws.
Conclusion is they probably have both attacks.

We see how the build and organize swarms of zerglings. That is what I meant.

And building/unit hp and attack range may be in the right reation
(battlecruiser has much more than fighter, supply depot much less than command center) but I wouldn't take the exact numbers as canon.

It was exactly that what I meant. We know the relation. But even in the cutscenes we found not evidence they would work in a different way.

I also take the unit's speed with a pinch of salt. The starships would all be much to slow. With the in-game acceleteration, it'd take them a long tome to acheive a decent sublight speed. Alternatively it may be possible the starships aren't able to move faster when operation in planetary atmosphere.

We see the cutscene the speed of a battlecruiser (which many not be his maximum) and the mannual clear describe the ghosts as high-speed ones. But again I refeer to their relation of speed. We know which is faster or not, how much the difference, etc.

As for the weapons yields, a small example: in the game, the Yamato canon does 260 damage. A BC has 500 HP. Therefore, he must already have lost half of it's HP before the Yamato can kill him instantly. Having lost half of the HP already is vast damage, according to the in-game wireframe models.(many red and yellow markings).
So, in the video, did the confederate BC look as if it had already received massive punishment?
Nope, the ship looked undamaged.
So either you didn't see the damage which had already been done to the ship (rather unlikely), or the Yamato canon is able to kill a BC with a single shot.

Well, for one:
We do not know the answer. Both teories of why the cutscene have that yamato blast are logical and can work. We need more information to calculate it. But as you have noticed I did not put the damage as something we can assume from the game.

Bliz include that in the game? Of course not, that would imbalance!

The Dark Templar can do better and is included. Blizzard way to balance the massive productions of BC is by their cost and need of food.

Sorry, The pic did not worked

[Cpt_Frank]

As my point was about the existence of One-hit kill weapons in SC, then i does not matter.

But So does the Yamato Gun that also have limitations. It even can be stoped by a mind control which is the one with less cost limitation and more powerful.

Conceded. Not that it matters....

It was exactly that what I meant. We know the relation. But even in the cutscenes we found not evidence they would work in a different way.

I wasn't talking about the workings, but about the yield.

We see the cutscene the speed of a battlecruiser (which many not be his maximum) and the mannual clear describe the ghosts as high-speed ones. But again I refeer to their relation of speed. We know which is faster or not, how much the difference, etc.

That's what I was trying to say.

Well, for one:
We do not know the answer. Both teories of why the cutscene have that yamato blast are logical and can work. We need more information to calculate it. But as you have noticed I did not put the damage as something we can assume from the game.

My point, we don't know enough to calculate a yield.

The Dark Templar can do better and is included. Blizzard way to balance the massive productions of BC is by their cost and need of food.

Sorry, The pic did not worked

Indeed, Dark Templars can be very .... annoying. But at least they can only attack ground targets.

I'll try to post the pic again.
Btw if you need SC pics why don't you just make screencaps during the cutscenes?

[lgot]

Conceded. Not that it matters....

Yeah,I do not think it was even with you this argument...

That's what I was trying to say.

Well, like I said, by the gaming we know the speed variations, range, etc. We are not sure the exact numbers, but we know by the game the faster troops, which can fire from a safe distance, this kind of stuff.
You have asked me why do use the gaming as reference, those are one of the reasons.

My point, we don't know enough to calculate a yield.

Yeah, we know very little. Another reason to do not dismiss one of the few sources , that is the gaming.
But to be quite frankly, Blizzard is not logical. They wont blink to change some of the stuff in the last games in favor to a better gaming in the next SC. They can just present us with a BC with more speed and that can go invisible, just for it. (another reason i think to not dismiss the gaming, to blizzard its the more important, they will change everything to improve the gaming). Or they can even make zealots flying...

Indeed, Dark Templars can be very .... annoying. But at least they can only attack ground targets.

I can imagine that is a in-game limitation i guess...after all,what stop them to pick up weapons and shot...

I'll try to post the pic again.
Btw if you need SC pics why don't you just make screencaps during the cutscenes?

After so many time only playing it, because my computer have no space to any other game that I would have interest I finally changed it. Right now, I am playing the Warcraft III and wasting some time with Star Wars:Galatica Batleground (which is a shame. They could have done a much better game. At least Blizzard could.) I will have to get the CDs back home again...

[Cpt_Frank]

Hmm. Seems like there's not much left to debate here. Perhaps SC 2 will provide us with better information about the weapon's yields when it comes out in 5 years

If you'd like to have some of my screencaps I can send them to you via email (they make nice wallpaper).

[lgot]

Yeah, I think that also...
heh, Actually It would be interesting in futher arguments. After all, what would i do with all my Anime wallpapers ?
Thank you ,anyways