Battle: Los Angeles

[spartasman]

Well, I went and saw the movie today, and since there's been so much hype over the reasoning for the aliens to invade, I thought I'd share that and my thoughts on the movie.

The aliens are after our water, because it exists in a liquid state on the surface of Earth.

Yes, you heard that right, and that is almost a direct quote from the movie as well. Apparently, they use the water as their fuel.

The action was good, and the military was portrayed...well. The plot, for me, sucked, and the characterization and dialogue was too dramatic. Plenty of Marine-wanking, as expected, but the whole "we are Marines, derpa-derpa-doopity-der oorah!" got old after the first three times.

The aliens were interesting (at one point they actually dissect one). Their vehicles seemed to be a combination of hovercraft and limbs. Their aircraft were cool, and I'm glad to see they went some other way than anti-gravity/inertia doohickey when it came to their propulsion, and instead went with some sort of micro-jet system. The dues-ex at the end wasn't quite as bad as it could have been. But the whole idea of a single, ad-hoc, combat-weary Marine squad being dropped behind enemy lines, who then proceeding to infiltrate the main enemy command hub, was a bit unrealistic.

On the whole, it's a good action movie, but I wouldn't watch it again unless I specifically wanted a military fix.

[Havok]

Probably should add some spoiler tags, or put 'spoilers' in the title, since you just spoiled the whole movie.

[Kuja]

The aliens are after our water, because it exists in a liquid state on the surface of Earth.

Yes, you heard that right, and that is almost a direct quote from the movie as well. Apparently, they use the water as their fuel.

qwerty

asdfghjkl

zxc

That's the backstory?

I mean, granted, it was a given that there would be silliness involved (it's a Hollywood alien invasion after all) but that's seriously the best they could come up with? That's something Chuck made fun of in an Enterprise episode!

[SylasGaunt]

Spoiler

They're stealing a shit ton of it. Something like a day into the fighting there was a drop in ocean levels we could notice. However while they do state that in the movie it's never stated by any of the aliens or something found on their electronic network or anything. It's the working hypothesis of at least one scientist and we do know they're doing something with a shit ton of it. Now whether that's the prime reason or if it's just part of setting up their infrastructure.. who knows.

I kinda get the feeling their drones are space capable as well given the damn things seemed to be covered in verniers.. that or the aliens just love the idea of giving gravity the finger and brute forcing their way around.


Also with regards to the end (and since there's no spoiler tag yet)
Spoiler

They don't actually infiltrate the enemy command hub. They locate it, and las it for missile strikes to blow the shit out of it and cut the datalinks for the alien air drones, giving us air superiority back and forcing the invaders onto the defensive).

I enjoyed it. The aliens had a clear technological superiority without the 'lol you lose!' levels of something like skyline and they made it actually believable we could put up a fight. Also this particular set of invaders is is probably the closest to human military tactics we've ever seen. Hell there's one quick shot where you actually see one of them dragging a wounded comrade back to cover.

[spartasman]

Spoiler

The water seems to be a major part of their technology. The infantry drone they dissect had what looked to be a non-viscous bio-liquid filling, with some sort of pouch that was supposed to be the 'weak spot'. That, and the fact that the aerial drone they blew up with the gas station leaked a considerable ammount of non-flammable liquid (or at least that's what I discern it to be based on the fact that none of it caught fire with the flaming remains of a gas station around it).

I would have thought that the infantry drones casing would be more of an exo-skeletal body armor. They had to damn near shoot the things with half a magazine before they would go down. Spoiler

even when aiming for the aforementioned 'weak spot'.

Spoiler

Despite the fact they do not get inside the command ship, they manage to infiltrate it's perimeter relatively easily. They only encountered one patrol, and those (what I'm assuming were) electro-mines didn't do a damn thing. Then, they pop out of a manhole, and somehow manage to establish a defensive position and are attacked only after they call in the missile strike, staying only a few hundred yards from from the main command antennae. The aliens only had one vehicle with them, which was some sort of light tank by it's performance, as well as utilizing little to no air support despite their being dozens of aerial drones about. And then at the end, when they've destroyed the alien mothership, the SSGT just blurts out "They are retreating, advance!" Now, I thought that was cool, don't get me wrong, but for fucks sake, they would have done better to just have them all scripted to pound their chests shouting "OORAH, OORAH, SEMPER FI, DO OR DIE!"

[SylasGaunt]

Spoiler

In all likelyhood that's because they were keeping the command center hidden to keep it from becoming a target, hence why it was underground and there weren't all sorts of vehicles buzzing about it. I also seriously doubt those pods were mines given that they didn't do anything except send out the occasional bolt of energy.. hell it's more likely they were fuel cells being filled up or something.

And the transmission was what tipped them off as to the marines' location, of course they got attacked then. And little to no air support? The marines got several strikes run in on them through the course of the final battle. Most of the alien air support also seemed to be occupied with getting the command center towed to a new location since that one had been compromised.

[spartasman]

Spoiler

How were the aliens not aware of their presence before hand? The marine squad was ambushed by not only a group of drones, but one of their command...things as well. They would have definitely tipped off the mothership if there was a perimeter breach. Even after that, the mothership itself fires on the marines through a window while they're still underground, so there is no question that their presence was known. The air support during the final battle was pitiful. Prior to then, they had been showed to have multiple machine guns that could be fired at ground targets. However, during the final battle all they use is their (suddenly) inaccurate rocket flurries.

[SylasGaunt]

Spoiler

Knowing there are marines in the area isn't the same thing as knowing exactly where they are though. I also don't recall MGs on the alien aircraft, which scene were they used in? I remember the energy cannon thing on the front they used to blow the crap out of buildings but not any MG equivalents. Also again see my point about most of the drones we see in that scene being strapped to the C&C center to evac it.

[spartasman]

Spoiler

I seem to recall that when the aerial drones first appeared they were firing some sort of machine cannon. However, this may be a misunderstanding as the micro-jet propulsion system gave off what I could have mistaken as muzzle flashes.

Still, one would expect there to be some kind of sensor system around the mothership, and at the very least the omni-present alien air cover could have been used discreetly as a surveillance system.

As for the lack of support, only a few aerial drones were shown to be towing the mother ship, and when it was destroyed, the clusters that the aerial drones operated in were shown to be dropping for several miles around. Several drones peeled off to intercept cruise missiles, and if the central control ship was under attack, I would have expected them to use all available air support to proved cover for the mothership.

[paladin]

Not a bad movie but the ending was expected. no surprises.

[fgalkin]

And I was absolutely right!. Figures.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Guardsman Bass]

Yeah, but we already knew that from the earlier "Battle: Los Angeles" thread.

I just got back from seeing it, and it kicked ass. Definitely the best popcorn movie so far in 2011, at least for me, with lots of great action. I'll probably pick it up on Blu Ray when it comes out.
Spoiler

Like others have mentioned, I loved how the aliens didn't have the whole "lol invincible" thing going on, or use Generic Movie Laser/Beam Weapons. They just had better firepower and superior aircraft, and the individual soldiers were fairly tough while working in teams.

As for the lack of air support around the mother ship, that might have been

A)They were busting their asses trying to tug it away from the combat zone, and

B)They were trying to provide cover from incoming missiles, like the one drone did on the first missile strike.

I'm curious as to what those weird red things with the electrical attachments that the soldiers walked by were. We see them when they're walking through ankle-deep water, but then nothing comes of it.

[Gil Hamilton]

Just got back from seeing it.
Spoiler

In general I liked it, though the aliens became ALOT squisher at the end of the movie. I suspect from the construction of their vehicles they are some sort of Hobo Aliens, because their technology looked like haphazardly welded together metal plates and rockets, complete with a Hobo Shopping Cart Rocket Launcher. With a thruster on the bottom. Man, they love just covering their shit in thrusters.

Water? As fuel? Really? Well, if we are being generous to the movie, its not like the aliens said that. It was probably rampant speculation on the news, because otherwise, that would be stupid*. In fact, their motivations weren't touched on at all, just their actions. Not necessarily a bad thing, that.

*I can see a news report going "The oceans are receding! We are getting reports that the oceans are rapidly losing water as beaches expand!" then a few hours later "We'd like to correct our previous report. It appears that was low tide. We repeat, low tide. The aliens draining out oceans of their life giving fluids remains subject of intense debate."

I think my biggest problem with it is that it didn't tell a story, but rather was just a bunch of stuff that happened. It wasn't much of a plot, just a bunch of marines and aliens killfucking each other until the Marines hit their MegaMan weakness.

[FaxModem1]

I saw it, I liked it. It could have been better.
Spoiler

Also, Michelle Rodriguez survives a movie, what a twist.

[Guardsman Bass]

Just got back from seeing it.
Spoiler

In general I liked it, though the aliens became ALOT squisher at the end of the movie. I suspect from the construction of their vehicles they are some sort of Hobo Aliens, because their technology looked like haphazardly welded together metal plates and rockets, complete with a Hobo Shopping Cart Rocket Launcher. With a thruster on the bottom. Man, they love just covering their shit in thrusters.

Water? As fuel? Really? Well, if we are being generous to the movie, its not like the aliens said that. It was probably rampant speculation on the news, because otherwise, that would be stupid*. In fact, their motivations weren't touched on at all, just their actions. Not necessarily a bad thing, that.

*I can see a news report going "The oceans are receding! We are getting reports that the oceans are rapidly losing water as beaches expand!" then a few hours later "We'd like to correct our previous report. It appears that was low tide. We repeat, low tide. The aliens draining out oceans of their life giving fluids remains subject of intense debate."

I think my biggest problem with it is that it didn't tell a story, but rather was just a bunch of stuff that happened. It wasn't much of a plot, just a bunch of marines and aliens killfucking each other until the Marines hit their MegaMan weakness.

Spoiler

Man, they love just covering their shit in thrusters.

Definitely, although I think the drone ships still looked pretty cool. They didn't really seem to have any fully armored ground vehicles - just open cockpit stuff that they "manned".

Water? As fuel? Really? Well, if we are being generous to the movie, its not like the aliens said that. It was probably rampant speculation on the news, because otherwise, that would be stupid*. In fact, their motivations weren't touched on at all, just their actions. Not necessarily a bad thing, that.

*I can see a news report going "The oceans are receding! We are getting reports that the oceans are rapidly losing water as beaches expand!" then a few hours later "We'd like to correct our previous report. It appears that was low tide. We repeat, low tide. The aliens draining out oceans of their life giving fluids remains subject of intense debate."

I figure it's probably just rampant speculation from a media desperate for understanding in-universe (although it's possible that they were drawing in ocean water to make fuel/cool stuff down).

To be honest, I think they shouldn't have mentioned it at all. The movie is basically a Slice of Battle centering around a group of marines stuck in the thick of it, who largely have no idea as to what's going on in the greater world.

I think my biggest problem with it is that it didn't tell a story, but rather was just a bunch of stuff that happened. It wasn't much of a plot, just a bunch of marines and aliens killfucking each other until the Marines hit their MegaMan weakness.

I think that works with the whole Slice of Battle I mentioned above. It's like Black Hawk Down - the actual guys on the ground are just trying to survive and escape to safety in the chaos of the overarching battle.

To be fair to the aliens, it's not like Eckhart hacked their central computer with a Mac virus. They did actually have to call in a missile strike.

That said, a giant floating base that's vulnerable to attacks from below seems like a not-too-hot design idea.

[keen320]

I saw it and also thought it was a good popcorn movie, although they could have called it "Marines vs Aliens."

I'm probably unqualified to speculate on this, but as to the water thing: could they be separating out the hydrogen and using it for nuclear fusion? Though personally I thought it was just the news making stuff up and they really had no idea what they were talking about.

[avatarxprime]

I'm probably unqualified to speculate on this, but as to the water thing: could they be separating out the hydrogen and using it for nuclear fusion?

Well they could be, but why? Hydrogen is the most abundant substance in the universe and freely available in space, no need to land on a planet and start sucking up the water.

Honestly, from the trailers I thought the aliens were some kind of Transformers like robots that came to Earth in order to use our tech to make more of themselves, incorporate them as something new and different then they would produce.

[Gil Hamilton]

Spoiler

Definitely, although I think the drone ships still looked pretty cool. They didn't really seem to have any fully armored ground vehicles - just open cockpit stuff that they "manned".

That's kind of an oversight on their part. They had gunships, soldiers with seemingly different load outs (the "officiers" seemed to have a different kind of gun), that Hobo Cart Rocket Launcher, and that heavy machine gun platform, but they didn't really have any tanks.

I figure it's probably just rampant speculation from a media desperate for understanding in-universe (although it's possible that they were drawing in ocean water to make fuel/cool stuff down).

To be honest, I think they shouldn't have mentioned it at all. The movie is basically a Slice of Battle centering around a group of marines stuck in the thick of it, who largely have no idea as to what's going on in the greater world.

Yeah, I think it shouldn't have been mentioned too. The problem is that it was the out-of-universe explaination that the movie makers came up with, that they wanted liquid water as fuel... for some reason. Leaving out any sort of motivation at all would be better. For the Marines that the story is centered around, the higher stuff doesn't at all matter. What matter is that Bug Eyed Monsters from Outer Space seem to really hate ugly architecture and need to be kicked out of Santa Monica. Why the BEM are there doesn't matter.

I think that works with the whole Slice of Battle I mentioned above. It's like Black Hawk Down - the actual guys on the ground are just trying to survive and escape to safety in the chaos of the overarching battle.

Yeah, for sure. Though I find it interesting you mention Black Hawk Down, since I just read the book and that was deeply concerned with the context and setting of the Battle of Mogadishu, from the Generals, to the Rangers and Deltas, to the Somalis. The movie faithfully reproduced the battle from the book, but completely omitted the higher motive stuff.

To be fair to the aliens, it's not like Eckhart hacked their central computer with a Mac virus. They did actually have to call in a missile strike.

That said, a giant floating base that's vulnerable to attacks from below seems like a not-too-hot design idea.

I was watching that and I would have found it interesting if the missile destroyed the command center and the drones, now free from having to defend the command post, swooped down on the Marines and killed them with a missile barrage, being controlled by on-board computers or embedded aliens which Eckhart's character didn't recognize as being a pilot.

The ending was too pat, given that the aliens were selling asskickings like it was buy one get one free earlier even WITHOUT their gunships, keeping in mind that we saw snatches of the alien soldiers destroying tanks on their own before their airsupport turned up.

Then, it felt like the movie looked at it's watch and said "Oh, time for the aliens to lose!" Suddenly the aliens couldn't shoot for crap, they were being taken down by single bursts even when their MegaMan weakness wasn't being hit, and their gunships immediately powered down and fell from the sky the MOMENT their command ship went out of contact. Why do bad guy robots always do that? Losing contact with their mothership always causes bad guy robots to immediately self-destruct, like they don't have a plan for a loss of communications. And the alien soldiers just ran away! Earlier in the movie, the aliens were smart, dangerous, and aggressive, thinking nothing about going head-to-head with the military. Why would they possibly run from a handful of soldiers then, particularly when they just dealt a big hurt to their command center? It just seemed like movie slapped a "good guys win" ending on.

I'm probably unqualified to speculate on this, but as to the water thing: could they be separating out the hydrogen and using it for nuclear fusion? Though personally I thought it was just the news making stuff up and they really had no idea what they were talking about.

Hydrogen makes up most of the atomic mass of the universe. Why bother getting it from us? If it weren't for the fact the movie producers specifically said "water for fuel" as their motive, there is absolutely no reason to think they'd want it for such. The universe is SOAKING in water (granted, most of it isn't liquid) and even more in hydrogen. Really, that whole thing probably can be balled up and chucked into the bin with all other paint thin motives brushed on to a popcorn movie.

[Guardsman Bass]

Spoiler

keeping in mind that we saw snatches of the alien soldiers destroying tanks on their own before their airsupport turned up.

We did? All I remember is the one tank that was shooting at the aliens on the freeway, which then got blown up by their weapon that fired the multiple little missiles at the same time - the one that the Lieutenant blew up when he sacrificed himself.

I do agree that they seemed to be easier to take down as the movie went along. The first couple of them went down, but it took a lot of bullets.

Though I find it interesting you mention Black Hawk Down, since I just read the book and that was deeply concerned with the context and setting of the Battle of Mogadishu, from the Generals, to the Rangers and Deltas, to the Somalis. The movie faithfully reproduced the battle from the book, but completely omitted the higher motive stuff.

I read the book myself a long while back.

Interestingly enough, the wikipedia page for the movie says that the director was heavily inspired by Black Hawk Down, and aiming for a "war movie" feel with it.

And the alien soldiers just ran away! Earlier in the movie, the aliens were smart, dangerous, and aggressive, thinking nothing about going head-to-head with the military

Not to mention charging the beaches before their air support showed up. Maybe it was a psychological thing, losing their central command.

[SylasGaunt]

Spoiler

We see multiple burned out tanks and calls of tanks destroyed over the radios in the early part of the film. Plus we see an alien RPG equivalent during a few attacks.

And they did get easier to take down.. that was the point of the scene where they vivisected one in the police station, they were learning where to shoot them which was another touch I liked. Their vitals are in a different spot so you can't just shoot them in the same places as humans and expect to kill them effectively.

As for the retreat near the end.. I go with a mix of psychological/military. The C&C hub has been destroyed, air support is gone, and now there's really no reason to hold that position anymore since the only thing that made it valuable just got blown the hell up.

Also I mentioned this earlier but did anyone get the feeling the drones were meant to be space capable, hence the lack of lifting surfaces in favor of lots of little maneuvering rockets?

[Gil Hamilton]

Spoiler

In addition, in the scene where they are flying over the city and looking down, there is a very brief shot of a tank being destroyed by rockets from the soldier grunts. Some of them, it seems were carrying anti-tank weapons on their person in addition to their Hobo Shopping Cart. Rocket Launcher.

Speaking of which, did you notice that the rockets from the grunts, the Hobo Shopping Cart and the missiles from the gunships were all multiple missiles at once, and shoot after the thing lit up with incandescent glowing. It almost seemed like the weapons were assembling the rockets on the spot like a demonic replicator.

On their MegaMan weak spot, yeah, they had that scene, but at the same time, Aliens were still going down way to easy. How easy can it be to hit a specific spot on a Bug Eyed Monster when it is running and shooting at you, in addition it being drilled into you to shoot for the center of mass? Aliens were doing down even when they weren't being hit in their MegaMan weak spot too.

I still think that the aliens just quitting when their command center was destroyed was kind of more "Time for the aliens to lose" stuff. I mean, The Fifth Element made fun of that shit in the 90s, where the alien bad guys immediately quit the moment Bruce Willis dramatically shoots their leader, complete with them covering their faces and going "We're done for!". I just think it's a flaw in the movie. One of the movies big rah-rah selling point is "Marines don't quit!" Is that not allowed to apply to BEM Space Marines? I know, alien psychology, you can't predict it, but it just seems like the ending was designed for "...and now our guys win. The End"

[Gil Hamilton]

Most of which is inaccessible since it's inside stars.

Absolutely, but it's by far the most abundant element outside of stars as well. In astrochemistry, one of the ways we talk about the abundance of a molecule is as a ratio of that molecule to H2 abundance, because no matter what object we look at H2 is by far the most abundant thing there, so normalization to H2 makes sense. In the bodies of planets, asteroids, et cetera, it tends to be diffused off as the hydrogen dimer (very light stuff, hydrogen), but hydrogen itself is omnipresent. In everything, not just stars. In the earths crust, if you take a shovel and scoop up a kilogram of dirt, about a gram and a half of that will be hydrogen.

So aliens invading us for our water to get hydrogen gas is one of the more silly uses for water. The universe is soaked in both hydrogen dimer and water both, even within the solar system that you could easily get all you wanted of both without angry natives shooting at you in Santa Monica. It might not be liquid (though in some places, it will, the movie was lying on that issue), but it's free and if it absolutely must be in liquid form, the process of getting it there just involves a heat source and pressure. If you insist on temperate conditions, there are plenty of places on earth with ocean front property and few if any angry natives going ooga booga. I suppose "Battle: Easter Island" doesn't have the same ring to it that "Battle: Los Angeles" does though.

[Alyeska]

Whats with the spoiler tags? A thread talking about a movie thats already out? Of course there is going to be spoiler discussion. Please STOP using spoiler tags. I don't want to have to manually click on every fucking post to read things.

[Sinewmire]

I quite enjoyed the film, though I came out with an unexplainable desire to join the US Marine corp. Weird, huh?
Spoiler

On their MegaMan weak spot, yeah, they had that scene, but at the same time, Aliens were still going down way to easy. How easy can it be to hit a specific spot on a Bug Eyed Monster when it is running and shooting at you, in addition it being drilled into you to shoot for the center of mass? Aliens were doing down even when they weren't being hit in their MegaMan weak spot too.

I actually laughed when Eckhart said "aim lower than where the heart should be" or whatever, given how much the aliens had been jinking and jerking about and running around like crazy. I'd have been happy to hit them at all.

They did get easier to take down.

Did they? I seem to recall the one that got shot into the swimming pool stayed down for quite a while. I guess they're a bit harder to put down tham a man, but a lot harder to actually kill.

We all were amused at the vivisection of the alien. War crimes much?

Also did the makers intend the anti-Afghanistan message? Foreigners attack, possibly for our oil[/sh] water, which they intend to use for fuel. Their technology is much better than ours, although not insurmoutably. They make extensive use of drones. We can only fight back using terrorist freedom fighter tactics.

Sorta. I guess they're applicable to any reasonably realistic invasion scenario. Still...

Spoiler

[Go 2 Hell]

It was essentially 2-hours of explosions. The cliched, laugh at with your friends type of movie, it was a fun experience. In terms of quality, I would say it was okay. At one point you see the married guy writing a note, I whisper to my friend, did they just foreshadow a "give this letter to my wife" scene, and approximately 70 minutes into the movie ...

Things I learned from this movie,
Everyone from New Jersey knows how to hijack cars
Veterinarians can assist when looking in the insides of aliens
Can't have a movie taking place in California without playing the song California love
Aliens go down like bowling pins, that's me paraphrasing an actual line

On a more serious note, I like shaky cam. For this movie, it kind of worked mid-action. But what the hell was that shit in the beginning when they were just talking. Why? Why did they find that necessary?