Doctor Who S32E7, "A Good Man Goes to War" [spoilers]

[Hillary]

I thought that was made of awesomeness.

Rory and the Cybermen - there were Cybermen in last season's finale (Rory killed at least one iirc) so they have clearly survived in one form or another which is hardly surprising (wiping out a pan-galactic species in its entirety must surely be incredibly difficult). In any case, I'm happy to accept any amount of hand-waving for a scene as cool as that one.

The Sontaran Nurse. Wonderful, totally wonderful.

I still don't hate River Song. It appears to be the fashion on here to do so, but I like the idea of the character and it has great potential - presumably she'll become less capable as the years go by and the balance of power in their relationship will reverse. I did love the Stevie Wonder line. Great stuff.

Have I said how awesome Rory was yet. Well I say it again. Awesome!!!

How the hell anyone thinks this is worse than RTD's latter years is completely beyond me.

I cannot wait for the rest of the series.

[Sharp-kun]

I thought it was fine for the most part. I'm for the most part indifferent to River (leaning towards dislike), but her bit at the end really got to me. The Doctor had had friends die, had (as far as he knew) lost Amy's child and generally had everything fall apart. Having her walk in and be so smug and arrogant just made me want to punch her. Sure it'll all turn out alright, but that kind of attitude to someone who's just had that much shit happen doesn't endear her to anyone. To then do it again with Rory and Amy was just cold.

Would it have killed her to have been upfront for once? All she had to do was walk in and go "I can tell you all who I am now, I'm Melody, it'll all work out" and go from there. Instead we got some smug guessing game.

[Shroom Man 777]

The thing that worries me though is that she IS a weapon, she is extremely dangerous, and the Doctor and his companions can be manipulated by her. So who's to say that she's not a weapon being used against the Doctor at this very moment, in her very adulthood?

[open_sketchbook]

As I like River Song and I think y'all are a bunch of whiners, I liked this episode quite a bit.

[Iroscato]

As I like River Song and I think y'all are a bunch of whiners, I liked this episode quite a bit.

Hear hear!
Yes, the episode was a bit silly, and had a few plot holes, but the good massively outweighed the bad. River's a good character, and at least she's an original concept. Her scene in the episode was powerful and the final reveal of her identity was very well done.

[Broomstick]

Would it have killed her to have been upfront for once? All she had to do was walk in and go "I can tell you all who I am now, I'm Melody, it'll all work out" and go from there. Instead we got some smug guessing game.

You know, some people, when they're about to drop an emotional bombshell, try to cushion the blow.

River's song and dance around the cot with the Doctor wasn't just telling him who she was, it was providing proof of who she was.

As for Rory and Amy - the same thing, not just telling them, but providing proof. And really, is there any way to say "Hi - I realize I'm twice our biological age but I'm really your daughter who, just minutes ago you were holding as a newborn in your arms." without it being traumatic?

[Lord Woodlouse]

Enjoyed the electronic poster at the beginning which warns about the sonic screwdriver, saying simply "REMEMBER: 1. It's not sonic. 2. It's not a screwdriver".

Personally I really liked this episode, and I know I like it because it tickles some very elemental emotions within me... but meh, that's not always a bad thing. Of course it'll be made or broken with the follow-up, but I'm very curious how this will shape the next six episodes.

[Raxmei]

The thing that worries me though is that she IS a weapon, she is extremely dangerous, and the Doctor and his companions can be manipulated by her. So who's to say that she's not a weapon being used against the Doctor at this very moment, in her very adulthood?

If she's going to act against the Doctor she's already done it. In other episodes she couldn't try to kill the Doctor because she knows they meet again in her past/his future so killing him would get paradox all over her timeline. Any such activity would be a very early/late encounter and after that River would be more concerned with making sure that encounter happened than with directly harming a person she knows she doesn't kill at this particular point in time. That does put a slightly different spin on The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon. If that is River's past then she has to make sure they don't avert it because that would smash her entire history from childhood up.

By the way, were those Air Force uniforms the clerics were wearing? They look familiar.

[LadyTevar]

You know, I think Madame EyePatch and the baby Melody were gone from Demon's Run before the Doctor & Company ever showed up. The ones we saw during the episode? Gangers, both of 'em. Solves the problem of "how did she get away with her escape ship full of pirates". Also, how she could be far, far away when talking to the Doctor on the screen. Gone before he ever arrived, and probably most of those on Demon's Run didn't know, either.

Oh gods, you're probably right.

[DarkSilver]

Would it have killed her to have been upfront for once? All she had to do was walk in and go "I can tell you all who I am now, I'm Melody, it'll all work out" and go from there. Instead we got some smug guessing game.

You know, some people, when they're about to drop an emotional bombshell, try to cushion the blow.

River's song and dance around the cot with the Doctor wasn't just telling him who she was, it was providing proof of who she was.

As for Rory and Amy - the same thing, not just telling them, but providing proof. And really, is there any way to say "Hi - I realize I'm twice our biological age but I'm really your daughter who, just minutes ago you were holding as a newborn in your arms." without it being traumatic?

in considering this entire season in so far....that's one thing I had NOT even thought about considering there Broomstick....

And it would make sense, she's shown no issue with creating Flesh-avatar's of people and using them...why not create one of yourself to be on the Station so she's never in any danger from the Doctor....

[Darth Nostril]

Only just got back from a mandatory training course and had a chance to watch this on BBC iPlayer.

"What is the Doctors message?"

KABOOM

"Would you like me to repeat the question?!"

Rory is just awesome, about time they gave him some serious badass time.

[B5B7]

During the past few years of Doctor Who cybermen have been inserted in strange and mysterious ways regularly, dating from the Cyber King. It seems to me their role is bigger than imagined. They seem to be a galactic superpower. There is the talk of them seeing everything that happens. What is with the Doctor's message? How and why did he blow up some of their ships? Is that what it appears to be on the surface, or, as with so much this season, something else? Think about the cybermen we've known in the past - reacting violently to any attack on them, but after these explosions, they obviously answered Rory's question and let him depart peacefully.

[hongi]

I just watched it in Australia. Awesome sauce. I squeed like a little bitch throughout the episode.

I love River Song. Yes she's absurdly capable, but not any more than the Doctor himself, and I don't think two is more than enough. She's played by a great actress and she's just plain fun. I don't care if she is a Mary Sue.

[FaxModem1]

Just watched it. Need some time to digest it, but I really liked it. For the most part, I was confused.

I think its a tad unfair that of the 'soldiers' the Doctor hires, its only the Pirates we've seen his adventure with, it would've been nice to see how the Sontaran became a nurse and how that Silurian became an adventurer in London.

I am also on the River Song is awesome bandwagon. I don't understand the hate, but whatever.

Good to see some badass Rory.

I think the Doctor facing a crisis of conscience in being known as the great warrior of the universe. We'll see how that goes.

Honestly, that episode was awesome, but I will need an explanation when the new episodes come out.

[hongi]

Posted this on that other forum:

"Good people don't need rules. Today's not a good day to find out why I have so many."

The Doctor recognises that he is not a good man. But it's only until River points out the full implications that the Doctor really gets it. Yes Doctor, you are not a good man. And that is why good people will fight you.

I really think that Moffat is building the Doctor's character arc towards the Valeyard, or some sort of thing like it.

[hongi]

Did anyone notice the Spoiler

Omega

symbols? See here and here. So we know our villain then?

[NecronLord]

Did anyone notice the Spoiler

Omega

symbols? See here and here. So we know our villain then?

I wouldn't read anything into it.

Linking Omega (speculation based on an episode itself isn't spoilers) into this story would be something of a character assassination. Have you seen Three Doctors or Arc of Infinity? Yes, Omega does bad things (though no one actually dies in Three Doctors; his attack on UNIT seems to actually not hurt anyone) but he's ultimately a tragic figure.

Stealing babies isn't his thing at all. Certainly Omega would need nothing with a Time Lord baby; he is already a Time Lord, the first Time Lord, to be sure, and seemingly immortal.

While he mentioned destroying everything in The Three Doctors, that was in despair when he realized he could never return to the normal universe and was forever condemned to solitude, he would have had to have had a complete change of personality to come up with the plan in The Pandorica Opens and actually do it.

[Atlan]

Enjoyed the electronic poster at the beginning which warns about the sonic screwdriver, saying simply "REMEMBER: 1. It's not sonic. 2. It's not a screwdriver".

The best thing is, that's wrong.

It IS sonic (at least some of the time), and the Sontarans even refer to it's use as "primitive sonic trickery" and it IS a screwdriver! We see the Doctor using it as such...

[Fiji_Fury]

Perhaps I'm just being dense, but I didn't find the Doctor to have either a) risen to his highest, or b) fallen to his lowest. c) River's terror when speaking to Rory as he gathered up allies was simply unjustified based on the interactions at the end of the episode. Now, had the Doctor reacted poorly and left in a rage... that might have been cool. But he didn't.

Those three points are grating on me more as I think about them and time goes on. River being Amy & Rory's daughter I can tolerate, although I can't say I'm feeling thrilled about it. I like River, I'm just not sold on the whole new dynamic the revelation introduces.

I do enjoy the Doctor's actions having consequences he can't accurately predict, and the little bit about him not being a good man. He did commit genocide after all against his fellow Time Lords, and attempted it at least a few times against aggressive species. Furthermore... remember that episode with Martha Jones where they went back into pre-WWI England and he mind-wiped himself to hide from those aliens? His vengeance (and I use that word advisedly) on the antagonists from that two-parter was ruthless.

Rather than the highest/lowest non-event that took place this episode, I was speculating with some friends that the season's villain... would turn out to be the Doctor himself. For reasons justified or not (and bear with me here because I know it starts to get slippery) a future Doctor may be taking actions that look dreadful and wrong to Amy, Rory and the current Doctor. Realizing that he himself is the maniachal/manipulative/insidious/relentless enemy would be a double-whammy. After all, changing events would produce a time paradox that might destroy the universe, and since the Doctor would know it... why the hell is/was/will he be taking the actions the current Doctor is seeing? Instead... wow. River = smug Amy's daughter. Woo-hoo. Awesome.

Now what the hell was all that mounting tension about? The plot feels pretty underwhelming to me at this point (though I did like the cameo's and the Doctor's slick handling of the whole army thing featured in this episode).

[Revy]

Huh, they just had a rerun of The Time of Angels and I just noticed now that when the Doctor is walking through the archive/museum at the start, he says it is the "final resting place of the headless monks". Nice bit of continuity name dropping them a whole season before they actually showed up.

Edit - also, River claimed that the Weeping Angel in the crashed ship was "a thing that can't ever die" for those of us wondering how easy they are to kill. Of course she could be wrong (they did all get erased from existence, but I get the feeling that would have done in anything - falling through a crack in the universe doesn't quite count as dying in the normal sense).

[Big Orange]

Perhaps I'm just being dense, but I didn't find the Doctor to have either a) risen to his highest, or b) fallen to his lowest. c) River's terror when speaking to Rory as he gathered up allies was simply unjustified based on the interactions at the end of the episode. Now, had the Doctor reacted poorly and left in a rage... that might have been cool. But he didn't.

I guess it's starting to dawn on the Doctor that a (on screen) half a decade of being a mean, vengeful mo-fo is inexorably coming back to bite him on the ass - most of the major alien species in the universe are already so intensely fearful of him to team up to get rid of him ("The Pandorica Opens") and now even humanity are seemingly likewise hunting the Doctor down with entire military taskforces. And the Doctor has failed to save infant River and Amy's going to get pissed at that, especially after the Doctor just giggled inanely and buggered off in his TARDIS.

I don't quite like "AGMGtW" as much as "TIA"-"TDotM", but it's mostly good stuff, with the highlights being the Doctor and Rory raining on the 12th Cyber Legion's parade, the exceedingly odd Victorian couple, the Sontaran Nurse, and the Headless Monks being the best bits. The Headless Monks are great (I wonder why their Mainframe conserves their heads in boxes?) but their mortal allies led by Eyepatch Lady are the usual McMook Army that we've had in countless earlier episodes from "Dalek" onwards, with one tragic girl and three comic reliefs distinquishing them. And I wasn't convinced about the exterior defences of the impregnible asteroid fortress, guarded by battlecruisers, getting passified by a pair of augmented WWII fighter planes (it would've been better if it were Sontaran or/and Judoon warships).

As for some people saying what a smug Mary Sue River Song is and this time it's Steven Moffat who's RUINZED 4 EVUR Doctor Who, meh, not in the mood.

[El Moose Monstero]

As for some people saying what a smug Mary Sue River Song is and this time it's Steven Moffat who's RUINZED 4 EVUR Doctor Who, meh, not in the mood.

Shove your usual 'wait a few weeks till noone's reading the thread then post a passive aggressive strawman' up your ass, BO.

Nowhere in here will you find anyone saying SM has ruined Doctor Who for ever. You may find some criticisms of the current plot twist, and I admit to being probably one of the most critical of the episode apart from Thanas, as I don't think this qualifies as a good episode for me because of what it promised to deliver and failed to deliver. I have watched the episode again since, to make sure I was being fair to it, and I did enjoy bits of the episode - the middle was good fun, but it remains the front and end of the episode which I had issues with.

In short, why not try actually posting whilst these conversations are going on in the first place rather than sniping like a bitch knowing that noone is going to resurrect the thread for a single line snuck away in a bigger post. You'll notice that there were some decent counterarguments raised to some of the things I was whinging about, made by people with both balls and courtesy, at the time.

[aussiemuscle308]

Though if she if she is a time lord it gives a big reason for them getting together, continuation of the species and all.

not to mention, the series itself.