Warhemmer 40K vs. Stargate

[Elheru Aran]

I think it's safe to say that named Goa'uld and Asgard are allowed, given that they're not explicitly 'Gods' per se; they just like to play like they are. Besides, if we ditched those two races on that basis... we got squat on Stargate except Earth, Tok'ra, and the various advanced human civs, oh and the Ori. That's about it; the Goa'uld and Asgard really are pretty much the main strong powers in their universe until the Ori and Replicators show up...

Now if we throw in Atlantis, we have the Wraith to make things interesting, but again? Pointless curbstomp. I can just see a Terminator kill-team making its way through a hive-ship, heavy-flamering their way through that shit...

[mr friendly guy]

I thought the Priors powers are innate? They just needed the Ori to bring them out, so the no God rule might mean its harder to train new Priors, but existing ones work just fine.

[Ahriman238]

Can the Ori have Adria? Can the Goa'uld have Anubis?

[StarSword]

Also, has SGC actually used a Stargate to destroy a star, and consequently the planets?

Nobody answered this, so I will.

Stargate: SG-1 4.22: "Exodus". After evacuating the Tok'ra base on Vorash because of the imminent arrival of Apophis' primary fleet, SG-1 dials a gate address leading to a black hole, then ejects it from a Ha'tak's cargo bay into a star's atmosphere. This abruptly removes part of the star's mass, disrupting the equilibrium between the thermonuclear fusion forces and the star's gravity, causing it to go nova and destroy the star system (and Apophis' fleet).

(I reused this idea for causing a supernova in my homebrew "Starbuster" superweapon. In my case it jumps the mass into hyperspace.)

This was only one of several times stargates have been used as impromptu weapons. Twice in Stargate episodes I saw (and I haven't seen many), they were used to destroy starships, accidentally in the case of the Ori dreadnought in "The Pegasus Project" (SG-1 10.03), and on purpose in the case of Michael's puddlejumper in "The Prodigal" (SGA 5.14).

Can the Ori have Adria? Can the Goa'uld have Anubis?

The OP probably should've copied Mike's rule for these kinds of fights from the main site, i.e. "no special characters".

[avatarxprime]

I thought the Priors powers are innate? They just needed the Ori to bring them out, so the no God rule might mean its harder to train new Priors, but existing ones work just fine.

They are, the Ori partially Ascend/hyper-evolve the Priors and this is what grants them their powers, that's why this still had them after the Ori got exterminated. For outside confirmation just look at Khalek who had his powers due to sped up evolution as performed by Anubis. Priors seem incapable of producing new Priors IIRC so there would be no new ones should the Ori be ruled out.

Can the Ori have Adria? Can the Goa'uld have Anubis?

I don't see why not, both of them only exist in-universe thanks to a massive bending of "The Rules" as far as "divine" intervention goes anyway so why shouldn't that rule bending extend out to this verses? Adria is a bit easier since she is directly a physical, living, breathing entity (at least until the Ori get killed) while Anubis can go play around with the Ascended. To keep things fair you'd need to restrict Anubis to the same "can't use any knowledge you couldn't gain as a Goa'uld" that the Ascended Ancients kept him to so he doesn't start using his powers to mess with things.

[Eternal_Freedom]

As per the OP, no the Goa'uld can't have Anubis, and the Ori can't have Adria. Why?

The OP states both franchises are at their current incarnation. Presumably this is immediately after the end of Stargate: Universe. At this time, both the Goa'Uld and the Ori are no longer extant powers and both Anubis and Adria are locked in eternal ascended conbat with Oma Desala and Morgan la Fe respectively.

In the franchises "current" incarnation, the thread basically becomes "Tau'ri, Wraith and Lucian Alliance vs 40K" with the Travellers and the Asgard Remnants as spoiler forces. by the end of Universe, only the Tau'ri, the Wraith and the Lucian Alliance can be considered major players, and the Wraith are in a different galaxy.

[StarSword]

One minor point. A lot of the Tau'ri's major victories seem to hinge on their ability to play the ends against the middle. Before the development of Tau'ri starships like the F-302 and the Prometheus- and Daedalus-class battlecruisers, they used several forms of trickery to play the various System Lords off against each other. And one battle against the Wraith in Stargate: Atlantis was decided by Sheppard stealing a Dart, then firing on two hive ships in turn and tricking them into blowing each other to flinders. In truth, the Tau'ri's space strength at peak consists of Atlantis and a dozen cruisers plus fighter complements.

I don't know much about the Warhammer universe, so I don't know how much this would help them (if at all). Any thoughts?

[avatarxprime]

As per the OP, no the Goa'uld can't have Anubis, and the Ori can't have Adria. Why?

The OP states both franchises are at their current incarnation. Presumably this is immediately after the end of Stargate: Universe. At this time, both the Goa'Uld and the Ori are no longer extant powers and both Anubis and Adria are locked in eternal ascended conbat with Oma Desala and Morgan la Fe respectively.

Ah, yes. You are quite right. I ended up forgetting about the OP and focusing on keeping Adria and Anubis.

In the franchises "current" incarnation, the thread basically becomes "Tau'ri, Wraith and Lucian Alliance vs 40K" with the Travellers and the Asgard Remnants as spoiler forces. by the end of Universe, only the Tau'ri, the Wraith and the Lucian Alliance can be considered major players, and the Wraith are in a different galaxy.

You forgot the add the Free Jaffa Nation to that list. They are still up and around following the defeat of the Ori and have built up a sufficient diplomatic relationship with the Tok'ra that they were guarding their planet during the symbiote removal ceremony for the last Ba'al clone.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Very true. At any rate, the Tau'ri seem to be the main movers and shakers in the current SG-Milky Way galaxy. After all, they defeated the Goa'uld, the Replicators, the Ori and it was i]them[/i] that caught the last of the Baal clones.

So any real discussion is always going to be "Tau'ri (with a little help from their friends) vs."

[avatarxprime]

True, the Tau'ri have the best naval assets in space, but they also have the fewest. In any real all-out war I'd imagine they'd need to start fulfilling the same role for their allies that the Asgard did for them and begin up-teching everyone's fleets. Honestly that's something I'd really like to see Earth doing with the Replicator tech. They could create spaceborne starship founderies (not actual Replicators though, cause that's just stupid) that go find a nice asteroid field or something and start churning out 304s. Heck, since they'd be able to build anything they had the schematics for (think the ultimate 3D Printer) they could always push the 304 design and go further with the tech improvements they've had since designing it and create 305s.

[ChosenOne54]

A bit late, but I got most if my info on the Stargate-verse from here:

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=188656

There are calcs, if you scroll further down.

[Connor MacLeod]

The first quesiton is what does "take place in a neutral galaxy" mean? Are we in a third location that the first two are connected to, and if so, how? There's lots of little variables to consider (The nature of the warp and conditions, do the Chaos Gods and daemons exist in this galaxy at the same level they do in the 40K galaxy, does the Webway reach here, etc.)

As far as Stargate goes, how unified are the various factions in their galaxy and how good is their industrial capability? As far as anything "large scale" goes, it is industrial capability and unity that will dictate outcomes, more than superweapons really. It's all very well if you can blow up stars or create huge system destroying explosions or black holes or whatever the fuck magic they all came up with, but you need to be able to mass produce it or produce it on a large WMD scale (in the galactic sense) for it to be a truly decisive, game winning capability.

Other important numbers are: how many ships do each of the factions have? Both in terms of warships, transports, etc. What is their ability to move hardware? how much do they have in terms of population and suchnot?

Stargate (or at least some factions) may hold an advantage in FTL speed and precision (IIRC the hyperdrives can hyper inside shields) and likely in communications. And in context I'm thinking not neccesarily speed (although that can be the case) but more in terms of reliability. The biggest drawback for the Imperium, for example, is that warp travel and communications is so damn unreliable. It may or may not get through, and even if it does it may be degraded, or slowed down, or whatever. It may be predictlable in some places, or across certain distances, but unpredictable across others.

Everything else is a detail that is useful, but not decisive. I dont know what STargate firepower is, except it might get into GT or even TT range in some cases. So it could easily have a parity with 40K firepower depending on which calcs you use there (people would argue with my asesssment, but GTs per shot/broadside for most 40K ships is a minimum, based on stuff like Nova cannons, torpedoes, bombardment cannon, etc. Hell, even starship accels and masses on the low end - like the rogue trader RPG - still suggest GT range firepower simply because we know engine power is comparable to power devoted to weapons and shields. However, firepower isn't a game winner by itself - if 40K (for example) is numerically greater, it could be that SG ships are individually more powerful, but less numerous. I don't know that is the case, but it's certianly possible.

Acceleration? I'd say that goes to Stargate wholly. They use that funky mass lightening shit and they can pull (IIRC) thousands if not tens of thousands of gees regularly. 40K acceleration, despite what some may say, is all over the board. It can run from tens of thousands of gees for some cases to single digit gees. My current thinking is that normal accelerations go into the tens or hundreds of gees. Single digit gees are for "prolonged" operation (weeks of constant acceleration without refeulling) Thousands (or tens of thousands) are basically a "emergency max/afterburn" type mode.. when performance matters over efficiency. And even then we may only be talking thousands for most cases - I really have started thinking tens of thousands of gees is some sort of outlier (or it relies on some equally magitech solution like mass lightening, like mentioned in Eye of Terror)

I dont know what Stargate weapons ranges are but I'm not sure it really matters if they can match 40K -the aforementioned hyperdrives are pretty damn precise so they more than likely could pick whatever engagement ranges they chose.

[Shroom Man 777]

Honestly that's something I'd really like to see Earth doing with the Replicator tech. They could create spaceborne starship founderies (not actual Replicators though, cause that's just stupid) that go find a nice asteroid field or something and start churning out 304s.

How often did the Replicators in SG go all World Devastator and create their own ships from scratch by using their nanotech to eat up raw resources, rather than steal/infest enemy ships with inferior tech and upgrade them? From what I saw in SG-1, the Replicators themselves have never done what you propose the Tau'ri do with Replicator tech. We saw them digest raw materials to create more blocks for more spiders, but have we seen them manufacture actual warships and stuff after processing raw materials?

A bit late, but I got most if my info on the Stargate-verse from here:

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=188656

There are calcs, if you scroll further down.

So you just copy the latest gee-whiz bang awesome thread you see in Spacebattles without even knowing anything about the topics involved in those versuses?

I guess this explains a lot of things.

[ChosenOne54]

No, I actually just got most of my info on Stargate from that particular thread.

[avatarxprime]

Honestly that's something I'd really like to see Earth doing with the Replicator tech. They could create spaceborne starship founderies (not actual Replicators though, cause that's just stupid) that go find a nice asteroid field or something and start churning out 304s.

How often did the Replicators in SG go all World Devastator and create their own ships from scratch by using their nanotech to eat up raw resources, rather than steal/infest enemy ships with inferior tech and upgrade them? From what I saw in SG-1, the Replicators themselves have never done what you propose the Tau'ri do with Replicator tech. We saw them digest raw materials to create more blocks for more spiders, but have we seen them manufacture actual warships and stuff after processing raw materials?

Essentially everything post-Human form creation. Fifth and Repli-Carter both used ships made from Replicators and SG wiki records three different Replicator ships types that were made by the Replicators as opposed to being upgraded ships. Now admittedly all of those are constructed from Replicator blocks and I'm aiming to have them construct actual ships, but the possibility exists.