Torchwood: Miracle Day thread

[Big Orange]

Hmmm, while the Silence and the Trickster Brigade (that faux Gou'ald animatronic was soooo 1996) would've been viable villains behind the Miracle, but I'm willing to bet those three mysterious gangsters/businessmen seen in the NY basement where Jack was imprisoned in are the Big Bads and they had a three way handshake (that neon blue triangle represents the evil organization). Captain Jack's Italian-American lover from the 1920s is perhaps not the main antagonist, but it was his actions who drew the big hostile crowd that kept on killing and mutilating Captain Jack, which in turn attracted the attention of three mysterious men who looked powerful.

[Themightytom]

Hmmm, while the Silence and the Trickster Brigade (that faux Gou'ald animatronic was soooo 1996) would've been viable villains behind the Miracle, but I'm willing to bet those three mysterious gangsters/businessmen seen in the NY basement where Jack was imprisoned in are the Big Bads and they had a three way handshake (that neon blue triangle represents the evil organization). Captain Jack's Italian-American lover from the 1920s is perhaps not the main antagonist, but it was his actions who drew the big hostile crowd that kept on killing and mutilating Captain Jack, which in turn attracted the attention of three mysterious men who looked powerful.

It's probably not the Silence. The DW episodes are moving in a different direction on all of that and frankly, I am still not convinced that the doctor is in the same universe as Torchwood anymore. nobody in Whoverse seems to remember the Dalek attacks, nor the cybermen invasion that preceeded the current incarnation of Torchwood, whereas there is direct continuity from those events to Torchwood now.

Orange what episode is the latest one you've seen?

[lordofchange13]

Given the name of the remaining episodes, I have the sinking feeling it might have to do something with Jack's "blood-letting" in this episode. Especially given how they reacted to his blood...

but his immortality isn't from biological sources. its from the Bad Wolf entity's freak-in magic time manipulation.

[Dahak]

Given the name of the remaining episodes, I have the sinking feeling it might have to do something with Jack's "blood-letting" in this episode. Especially given how they reacted to his blood...

but his immortality isn't from biological sources. its from the Bad Wolf entity's freak-in magic time manipulation.

I know that. But simply given the way the whole scene was done, it reeks of a Chekov's Gun and I would be surprised if there won't be a weird connection to that blood...

[FaxModem1]

So, the blessing is from the Racnoss, what do you know?

[Iroscato]

So, the blessing is from the Racnoss, what do you know?

You're kidding, right?

[FaxModem1]

Well, the Blessing came with the Earth, and since the Racnoss created the Earth, its how it works. And its a legend of the Silurians, at least according to third hand accounts from Captain Jack that he got from the Doctor who got it from the Silurians.

[AndroAsc]

This season is serious shit. So what is the Blessing? Just some old ancient vagina that goes through the Earth... where did it come from? Dunno... Why did suddenly Jack's blood become miracle blood when it was explicitly stated it was NOT in his blood a few episodes back? Dunno.... Why is rex now immortal, because of the bug brained immortal blood that he transfused into himself...?

[NecronLord]

I actually like the idea of it being associated with the Racnoss, once the thing about it going through the Earth was introduced; it's kinda obvious that a decent explanation wasn't going to be forthcoming, and really the Torchwood guys aren't up to actually solving the matter.

The idea that it's some sort of extension of a Racnoss hibernation system works for me though; they had lasted billions of years, and at their height the Racnoss were sufficiently dangerous that the Time Lords rewrote the universe to deprive them of their source of power, after all. Something like that could easily be part of their life support system, albeit probably doing something it was never supposed to here.

Could have been a better explanation, of course, but at least it was Doctor Who related.

[speaker-to-trolls]

I have a hard time thinking that they'd link this to the Racnoss simply because that would seem like such a radical shift in tone away from the magical realism of the rest of the story. I mean I have kind of a hard time imagining Dr Who and Torchwood existing in the same universe at the moment simply because of the thematic differences, nevermind the actual continuity issues.

I mean really, can you imagine that Eleven's whacky and absurd adventures take place while everyone on Earth stops dying and the government starts murdering sick people en masse? I don't think the two situations would quite go together.

As a weird aside, ok, I don't know if this says something about my view of the world or about the way this is written or acted or simply that I haven't seen most of Bill Pullman's screentime in this series, but am I the only one who found the civil servant who was going after Gwen's father far more hateful than Oswald Danes? It almost seems to me like he doesn't seem as bad because we expect him to be evil, but ordinary people helping out in an evil process seems really hateful because they ought to know better.

Same thing happened in Children of Earth of course, but that was actually more understandable since they were faced with what looked like a choice between doing something unspeakably evil and the extermination of the human race (looked like because of other ways to resolve the situation and because the Junkienians might not have been able to kill everyone in the world). Here they're faced with doing something unspeakably evil or possibly resource shortages or epidemics which btw can't actually kill you anymore.

[Themightytom]

john Barrowman and Bill Pullman just ate the screen up with their exchange about the future. Jack painting that picture of humanity's greatness just to calibrate his condemnation of Oswald was a fantastic shot to the character. I like the progression Oswald has gone through, first believing his miraculous evasion of death was an opportunity to repent, and an opportunity to start again and reform, then his hope that maybe he had a greater calling, a higher purpose... and then ultimately his conclusion that he was just never going to find redemption, and the vindictive way in which he dcided to take that woman with him, while waiting for the others to leave.

Gwen's character went no where, and it continues to annoy me that nothing that happens changes here. because ultimately, she's a bitch, she makes situations worse, at virtually every opportunity, and sure she contributes to solutions, but ultimately, she just doesn't listen to people with good advice. The scene in the chinese woman's home was typical of that.

Rex's change, and jilly's new job kind of leave it open to a sequel, but I don't know if i want to watch more of the formulaic Jack, Gwen and Gwen's family clusterfuck. I would have watched it if Esther pulled through but meh.

John DeLancie's "Oh fuck" was outstanding.

[Hillary]

Firstly, can we please stop all the speculation about Slitheens and Racnos and what have you. There is NOT going to be a Who monster at the bottom of all this. Apart from the early Cyberwoman story, has the series EVER had a Who monster?

Secondly, it's fine as far as it goes. Rex is a great foil for Jack (a shame there hasn't been more screen time for the two together) and Esther I like. Oswald and the PR woman are wonderfully drawn characters, very well acted. I like the mysterious family as the shadowy figure in the background. Gwen is the problem character I agree - she jeopardises pretty much everything at every turn. In short, she's a liability who would have been dumped out of any serious outfit very quickly (yes, I know TW is completely incompetent).

The premise is quite decent imo. The consequences of nobody dying and the solution devised by the Govts around the world were well thought out. The baddy drug company who were stocked up ready to go was intriguing. How Jack's blood fits into this is also interesting. However, I am less enamoured by the giant whateveritis running through the centre of the planet - this had better be good.

Unfortunately, they now have one hour in which to resolve all the issues without making a completely pig's ear of it. I suspect they will fuck up royally, a la Children of Earth.

[Iroscato]

Firstly, can we please stop all the speculation about Slitheens and Racnos and what have you. There is NOT going to be a Who monster at the bottom of all this. Apart from the early Cyberwoman story, has the series EVER had a Who monster?

Hoix.

Secondly, it's fine as far as it goes. Rex is a great foil for Jack (a shame there hasn't been more screen time for the two together) and Esther I like. Oswald and the PR woman are wonderfully drawn characters, very well acted. I like the mysterious family as the shadowy figure in the background. Gwen is the problem character I agree - she jeopardises pretty much everything at every turn. In short, she's a liability who would have been dumped out of any serious outfit very quickly (yes, I know TW is completely incompetent).

Agreed.

The premise is quite decent imo. The consequences of nobody dying and the solution devised by the Govts around the world were well thought out. The baddy drug company who were stocked up ready to go was intriguing. How Jack's blood fits into this is also interesting. However, I am less enamoured by the giant whateveritis running through the centre of the planet - this had better be good.
I will wait until I've seen the episode before I pass judgement, but I suspect I'll be rolling my eyes at the screen.
Unfortunately, they now have one hour in which to resolve all the issues without making a completely pig's ear of it. I suspect they will fuck up royally, a la Children of Earth.

Children of Earth was damn good all the way through, a-thank you. Probably the best series of Torchwood.

[FaxModem1]

Firstly, can we please stop all the speculation about Slitheens and Racnos and what have you. There is NOT going to be a Who monster at the bottom of all this. Apart from the early Cyberwoman story, has the series EVER had a Who monster?

Secondly, it's fine as far as it goes. Rex is a great foil for Jack (a shame there hasn't been more screen time for the two together) and Esther I like. Oswald and the PR woman are wonderfully drawn characters, very well acted. I like the mysterious family as the shadowy figure in the background. Gwen is the problem character I agree - she jeopardises pretty much everything at every turn. In short, she's a liability who would have been dumped out of any serious outfit very quickly (yes, I know TW is completely incompetent).

The premise is quite decent imo. The consequences of nobody dying and the solution devised by the Govts around the world were well thought out. The baddy drug company who were stocked up ready to go was intriguing. How Jack's blood fits into this is also interesting. However, I am less enamoured by the giant whateveritis running through the centre of the planet - this had better be good.

Unfortunately, they now have one hour in which to resolve all the issues without making a completely pig's ear of it. I suspect they will fuck up royally, a la Children of Earth.

Well, we already had mention of the Trickster's brigade earlier in the season, and I'm guessing you haven't seen the finale yet, so I'll say no more about the Racnoss or whoever.

[Themightytom]

Firstly, can we please stop all the speculation about Slitheens and Racnos and what have you. There is NOT going to be a Who monster at the bottom of all this. Apart from the early Cyberwoman story, has the series EVER had a Who monster?

Um so what are your rules here Fax, the main character was created in a Who episode and was a companion for a year or so, Gwen is the direct descendant of a character the ninth doctor met when the Cardiff Rift formed in the first place, Torchwood was founded because the doctor was fighting Werewolves, but yeah let's ignore the universe they live in entirely and always look for a new antagonist.

Are you a fan of mysteries where they introduce the true culprit ten minutes before the show ends? Because that's pretty shitty writing that we all have to tolerate, when writer's get too lazy to leave clues, but I was unaware there was actually anyone out there who gleefully enjoyed it. Why would you not prefer the culprit to be, I don't know, the giant alien trapped in the center of the Earth

[NecronLord]

Firstly, can we please stop all the speculation about Slitheens and Racnos and what have you. There is NOT going to be a Who monster at the bottom of all this. Apart from the early Cyberwoman story, has the series EVER had a Who monster?

Spoilers: Spoiler

Sorry, that should have been spoilered before. Jack speculates the phenomenon going through the Earth is related to the Racnoss on-screen, though he doesn't know, and it's strongly implied to be correct. Especially as the audience who're familiar with Who know that it should go right through a Racnoss ship.

At the end, UNIT takes over the site(s).

So, when has it had a Dr Who Monster? Not here, but they're definitely implied to be responsible for The Blessing's existence, though not what's done with it.

[Hillary]

Firstly, can we please stop all the speculation about Slitheens and Racnos and what have you. There is NOT going to be a Who monster at the bottom of all this. Apart from the early Cyberwoman story, has the series EVER had a Who monster?

Um so what are your rules here Fax, the main character was created in a Who episode and was a companion for a year or so, Gwen is the direct descendant of a character the ninth doctor met when the Cardiff Rift formed in the first place, Torchwood was founded because the doctor was fighting Werewolves, but yeah let's ignore the universe they live in entirely and always look for a new antagonist.

Are you a fan of mysteries where they introduce the true culprit ten minutes before the show ends? Because that's pretty shitty writing that we all have to tolerate, when writer's get too lazy to leave clues, but I was unaware there was actually anyone out there who gleefully enjoyed it. Why would you not prefer the culprit to be, I don't know, the giant alien trapped in the center of the Earth

It wasn't Fax, it was me. My point holds - TW has almost entirely used separate antagonists than those that have appeared in DW (with the exception of the Cyberwoman early on). The fact that Jack came from DW is irrelevant to this point. Since TW started way back when, posters have continually speculated about whether a DW creation is behind the latest plot line - and it never ever is. If the Racnoss is involved in the finale, I am more than happy to eat humble pie.

By the way, I didn't in any way say that introducing an unknown bad guy at the death is a good thing - of course it isn't. However, what I would LIKE to happen has no bearing whatsoever on what I think WILL happen.

[HMS Sophia]

Spoiler

I was thinking did anyone fucking die? That was a pointless set of sacrificing. And then Rex died. And then he didn't. And now I fucking hate this more.

[Themightytom]

It wasn't Fax, it was me. My point holds - TW has almost entirely used separate antagonists than those that have appeared in DW (with the exception of the Cyberwoman early on). The fact that Jack came from DW is irrelevant to this point. Since TW started way back when, posters have continually speculated about whether a DW creation is behind the latest plot line - and it never ever is. If the Racnoss is involved in the finale, I am more than happy to eat humble pie.

Yeah I saw the finale like two weeks ago so I didn't want to spoil it. Jack's presence, Gwen's presence, the presence of the rift, dude those are all from Doctor Who, if the good guys exist the bad guys probably do too.

By the way, I didn't in any way say that introducing an unknown bad guy at the death is a good thing - of course it isn't. However, what I would LIKE to happen has no bearing whatsoever on what I think WILL happen.

How post enlightenment of you to see reason that way.

[NecronLord]

Are you blind? You're asking if anyone actually died, when the show ended with a funeral of a main character!

Esther Drummond died. They went to her funeral.

Dr Vera Juarez was burnt alive (to death), if you recall.

Additionally Allen Shapiro (John De Lancie) died, not sure if he really counts as a main character but he was awesome.

Complaining about Torchwood not killing off characters is retarded. There are only two survivors of the original cast at this stage.

[NecronLord]

If the Racnoss is involved in the finale, I am more than happy to eat humble pie.

Now that the episode's out this side of the pond... your pie is served. Would you like to eat that with a spoon or a fork?


Okay, they get name dropped, they hardly appear (which would be silly, as they're dead) but still.

[HMS Sophia]

Complaining about Torchwood not killing off characters is retarded. There are only two survivors of the original cast at this stage.

I got cross with it. I may have been talking out of my ass.

[Eternal_Freedom]

What irritates me is Rex becoming immortal, in exactly the same way as Jack, because (presumably) he had Jack's blood. When it was clearly stated that it aint Jack's blood that makes him immortal.

So we have two totally different processes causing exactly the same effect in two different people. My SOD was kinda shattered at that.

[Hillary]

If the Racnoss is involved in the finale, I am more than happy to eat humble pie.

Now that the episode's out this side of the pond... your pie is served. Would you like to eat that with a spoon or a fork?


Okay, they get name dropped, they hardly appear (which would be silly, as they're dead) but still.

Not really. The point that I was trying (and clearly failing) to make is that TW doesn't have Doctor Who monsters as antagonists (with the Cyberwoman exception). I'm not saying that TW is not in the DW world, nor that events (and sometimes DW companions) are dropped into the show - simply that the main antagonists are never from DW. As indeed they weren't this time. The Racnoss were not involved in the finale - they were simply name-checked by Jack (as was the Doctor - was he 'involved' as well?).

I would loved to have eaten my humble pie, incidentally, had it saved us from the "it's a magic hole and I don't know what it is - let's bury it and never think of it again" finale we did get. How fucking horrible that whole thing was.