Posleeen vs Orks: Planetary Combat

[Simon_Jester]

In general, I think there are a lot of areas where the Posleen and orks are roughly tied (quality of infantry weapons when compared one for one, tactical intelligence, ferocity, reproductive rate), a few areas where orks are far superior (skill in hand to hand combat, ineradicability, brute durability, and endurance), and a few areas where Posleen are superior (getting large numbers of their higher-grade weapons to the troops, using ranged weapons to soften an enemy up effectively before getting into close combat, and the firepower of their heaviest weapons (HVMs and the guns on Posleen landers).

Thus, I expect a hard-fought campaign, and it does not seem fundamentally unfair, given the large number of imponderables and unknowns, to posit that individual theaters of war will be won or lost for one side or the other depending on whose strengths are most effectively brought to bear. Orks win in terrain the Posleen are bad at, Posleen win in the terrain the Posleen are good at, and ultimately Orks win the whole shooting match by virtue of being harder to kill and less likely to wipe themselves off the map of their own accord than Posleen.

I dont think Ork flesh will be indigestible per se, been trying to find an example of that (given the carnivrous nature of the algal based component of their biology, it seemed possible, but nothing explicitly on that.)

I agree with the long term, but the 'short term' is an entirely depends situation. Like most 40K things, nothing is set in stone and it depends on how you outfit them. How many vehicles they have, what kind? What are they allowed to build? What sorts of Ork Boyz are we talking about? Even ignoring the specialists you can have close assault (with sluggas and choppas) or you could have shootas (ranged.. at least by Ork standards.) You can have heavy weapons, anti tank weapons, flamethrowers, etc. They have quite a bit more variety in weapons, and excepting perhaps the HVMs (which are pretty wonky if you ask me) there is nothing definite. Ork energy weapons are likely to be as powerful as almost any Posleen equivalent (Barring HVMs).

Much of the same goes for the Posleen. The reason I give the edge to the Posleen:

Posleen will preferentially shoot before closing- while both sides are wont to charge into close combat, the Posleen are more diligent about using weapons to soften the enemy up at long range first. And my sincere impression is that overall, Posleen railguns are on average higher-performing than ork shootas. The high end of ork shootas are comparable to Space Marine bolters, perhaps, but that corresponds to the (quite powerful) 3mm railguns carried by Posleen superior normals, which are similarly rare. Ranging down into the 1mm railguns and the shotguns (the latter of which are little or no better than conventional firearms), I think Posleen average effective firepower drops off less rapidly than ork firepower.

This is extremely hard to quantify- but I think that if we took a representative sample from each species, you would see proportionately more railguns than high quality shootas. Using the super-fierce orks from Armageddon, or big mobs of nobz, would give a disproportionate impression of their firepower... but then, so would using only those veteran oolts that are armed entirely with 3mm railguns, plasma and HVM weapons. Averaging over the whole species, proportionately more of the Posleen have their suite of advanced weaponry, and they are more likely to use it effectively in combat, when compared to the orks.

Choppas can be alot sharper/deadly than their nature can let on (same with armour) due to the WAAAGH effect. I remember that if an Ork believs a choppa is really sharp it will be able to even cut through astartes plate (eventually at leasT) an dthey do use chainweapons. I dont think this is much of an issue against Posleen however. I also suspect that physically, the difference betwene Ork and Posleen is alot less than Posleen and human.

Yes- although Posleen carry hypersharp weapons capable of cleaving power armor in their own right, so I'd say that's a tie.

What's more I dont remebmer Posleen using or wearing body armor. WE know Orks can and do (anything from crude flak to welding, wearing bits of scrap metal plate, up to their own versions of carapace and powered/terminator armour.) That may or may not give them an advantage.

To an extent, yes- but only a relative minority of the orks seem to wear significant armor, and this minority is broadly comparable to the minority of the Posleen who are armed with heavy weapons capable of breaking that armor- especially plasma and HVM.

In any case Posleen are tough combatants for humans, but I dont think that translates into being difficult combatants for Orks. The Posleen rely on numbers as much as superior weaponry (relatively speaking) to overwhelm the opposition and they may not have much if any superiority - certainly not short term and probably not long term. Orks are likely to be at LEAST as tough, and possibly tougher. Their weapons may not be accurate (possibly worse than posleen?) but they will definitely be able to harm or kill them if human small arms can, and there are alot of orks. They will have vehicle weapons support as well, which depending on numbers can be helpful (and they are relatively easy to construct for Orks.)

However, these vehicles (and heavy armor/power armor) will also be disproportionate targets for the God Kings (which orks will not seek out and kill from long range), and the heavy weapon-armed normals. Airborne vehicles will be shot down almost immediately- for practical purposes I'd be tempted to model a God King saucer as something pretty close to a Hydra AA gun, mounted on an open-topped skimmer chassis, and armed with plasma, laser, or HVM weapons.

My impression of ork power armor is that it is usually somewhat short of the mark set by ACS in Ringo's setting, and that it is much inferior in firepower. A small number of large, high profile power suits will not turn the tide in a large battle between boyz and oolt'os.

They'll also have power armor, cybenretic orks, and dreadnoughts (both for Grots and Orks) which will provide ACS support of a sort (not neccesarily in quality, but quantity can overcome this) which will also help. They'll take losses but that won't matter, because that's fine with Orks, but they can fight the Posleen head to head, and have a good chance of succeeding.

Yes, I think the fight will be close enough that when a Posleen army clashes with an Ork army, the outcome will be in doubt. My opinion is simply that on average, over the whole of the planet, in places where conditions favor the Posleen they will win out, at least in the short run. Conversely, where conditions do not favor the Posleen, the orks will use their near-parity with the Posleen and better ability to handle local conditions to defeat the Posleen handily.

[Vehrec]

How about the Stompas and Gargants? With this size of force, I would expect to see at least some of these power-field protected Ork platforms deployed for battle. Does the Orky forcefield teknologee work well enough to ward off the kind of mass fire they'll need to absorb?

And what about the Ork's Psykers? How to they alter the playing field? I know they aren't used terribly much in the fluff or competitive play, but you get a couple hundred thousand orks together, and there's enough WAAAGH to throw out Lance-strikes worth of psychic energy.

[Simon_Jester]

How about the Stompas and Gargants? With this size of force, I would expect to see at least some of these power-field protected Ork platforms deployed for battle. Does the Orky forcefield teknologee work well enough to ward off the kind of mass fire they'll need to absorb?

When the HVMs and the guns on the Posleen landers are factored in... I kind of doubt it, to tell the truth. Stompas and Gargants are tough, but not tough at the more-than-nuclear levels they'd need to be for that to work well.

If the Posleen can't use landers to counter Gargants, then they have a serious problem.