Taming Vacuum Decay - potential applications?

[SpaceMarine93]

Every who knows enough Physics dreads this infamous hypothetical phenomena: simply put, the Universe is filled with so-called vacuum energy, which is the average energy of all those quadrillions of particles that come into and out of existence everywhere around us every second.

In theory, as the Universe expanded, the vacuum energy dropped down to the lowest possible level. In reality a small possibility exists which the Universe may be just existing in an unstable energetic state. If so, applying a jolt of energy in just the right place may result in a catastrophic event known as a False Vacuum Collapse.

The key thing is that such an event will create a bubble of True Vacuum where the event occurs, where new laws of physics take hold as the false vacuum drops down into a lower energy state. The bubble would then expand at the speed of light. Any matter that falls into the bubble would simply cease to exist as the energy state of the new Vacuum state could not support it.

In other words, this thing, also called Vacuum Decay, could theoretically rewrite reality and alter physics of the entire known universe. Fancy that.

What if, for example, an incredibly advanced alien civilization is capable of harnessing such destructive phenomena and use it for the own purposes?

In Stephan Baxter's novel Manifold: Time, the lonely god-like posthuman descendants of Humanity at the end of time, Downstreamers, decides to rewrite the laws of physics of the multiverse in such a way so it is transformed from a finite multiverse where little intelligent life forms evolve to a infinite multiverse in which human life and alien intelligences are far more plentiful. This was done using a device that generates a vacuum decay.

The possible applications of such power is limitless. What if one could somehow instigate vacuum collapse to rewrite physics in a localized environment, control the combination of new Physics from such events and the expansion process? What if it is used as a WMD?

Ideas, anyone?

[Number Theoretic]

A vaccum bubble that annhihilates the current laws of physics and that expands with the speed of light sounds like the perfect Doomsday device to me. Because it destroys not only the universe but with it ourselves. And if it defies the laws of physics, "harnessing" this in the sense of "being able to control its expansion and geometry" could be ... difficult. Plus, when testing it, you have exactly one try to make it right.

But suppose it were possible to use this in a controlled manner, how about using it to redefine Physics so that FTL becomes possible?

[Imperial528]

But suppose it were possible to use this in a controlled manner, how about using it to redefine Physics so that FTL becomes possible?

I actually posted a thread along those lines some time back. Here it is:

Okay, so, if I understand vacuum energy correctly, then an area of differing vacuum energy will have different laws of physics, including the speed of light. So, the idea is that a spacecraft would through some handwavium, create a "film" of lower or higher vacuum energy in a sphere around it, to the point that it is inside the film but not touching it, since if it touches the film it would cease to exist as we know it.

Now, an area of differing vacuum energy can only propagate at the local speed of light, c, even if the internal speed of light is 1.5c. Which means that, assuming my knowledge is correct, such a spacecraft could travel at the speed of light.

And here's where things get tricky.

Say we have three objects capable of maintaining this effect: Gate A, Gate B, and Spacecraft A. Gate A and Gate B are capable of creating whole regions of differing vacuum energy, rather than just films, and they are activated at the edge of the solar system, maintaining a shared film. Spacecraft A envelopes Gate B in its own film after attaching to it, and pulls it to the neighboring Alpha Centauri while traveling at c. Spacecraft A and Gate B take 4.3 years to travel to Alpha Centauri, and Spacecraft A places Gate B into orbit around the star at the system's edge when it arrives. Now, Spacecraft A can then enter Gate B while its own film generator is on. When it enters Gate B's region of differing vacuum energy, which was stretched into a tunnel shape to become Tunnel AB, then the space of normal vacuum energy is suddenly no longer the local force, which means that it can propagate at Tunnel AB's speed of light, in this case, 1.5c. Thus, Spacecraft A can return to Sol in only 2.86 years when going through the tunnel.

So, would this idea work?* Or am I, in my ignorance, completely butchering the theory of vacuum energy?

*This idea neglects other concerns such as generating mechanism and power sources.

[lordofchange13]

But suppose it were possible to use this in a controlled manner, how about using it to redefine Physics so that FTL becomes possible?

I actually posted a thread along those lines some time back. Here it is:

Okay, so, if I understand vacuum energy correctly, then an area of differing vacuum energy will have different laws of physics, including the speed of light. So, the idea is that a spacecraft would through some handwavium, create a "film" of lower or higher vacuum energy in a sphere around it, to the point that it is inside the film but not touching it, since if it touches the film it would cease to exist as we know it.

Now, an area of differing vacuum energy can only propagate at the local speed of light, c, even if the internal speed of light is 1.5c. Which means that, assuming my knowledge is correct, such a spacecraft could travel at the speed of light.

And here's where things get tricky.

Say we have three objects capable of maintaining this effect: Gate A, Gate B, and Spacecraft A. Gate A and Gate B are capable of creating whole regions of differing vacuum energy, rather than just films, and they are activated at the edge of the solar system, maintaining a shared film. Spacecraft A envelopes Gate B in its own film after attaching to it, and pulls it to the neighboring Alpha Centauri while traveling at c. Spacecraft A and Gate B take 4.3 years to travel to Alpha Centauri, and Spacecraft A places Gate B into orbit around the star at the system's edge when it arrives. Now, Spacecraft A can then enter Gate B while its own film generator is on. When it enters Gate B's region of differing vacuum energy, which was stretched into a tunnel shape to become Tunnel AB, then the space of normal vacuum energy is suddenly no longer the local force, which means that it can propagate at Tunnel AB's speed of light, in this case, 1.5c. Thus, Spacecraft A can return to Sol in only 2.86 years when going through the tunnel.

So, would this idea work?* Or am I, in my ignorance, completely butchering the theory of vacuum energy?

*This idea neglects other concerns such as generating mechanism and power sources.

Cool idea, but would you not have to wait for 4.3 years before Gate B and A can make a connection? please post a link to your original thread, I cannot find it.

[Imperial528]

The link is in the quote, where my name is in the quote.

And the gates are linked before they are moved, so the connection was already made.

[lordofchange13]

The link is in the quote, where my name is in the quote.

And the gates are linked before they are moved, so the connection was already made.

Thanks, didn't notice. The idea for some reason reminds me of Mass effect fields.

[Imperial528]

It's actually quite different than a mass effect field, especially because, technically, the ship never travels faster than the speed of light.

[lordofchange13]

It's actually quite different than a mass effect field, especially because, technically, the ship never travels faster than the speed of light.

I know it has nothing to really do with mass effect fields. they just seem similar in that they manipulate reality in someway so that a ship to an out side observer looks like it is exceeding light speed.

[Xon]

Functionally, Xeelee-verse uses a lot of tech which exploits manipulating false-vacuum to create new localised laws of physics. These appear localized as they are not false-vacuum decay (ie decreasing the energy content of vaccuum), but an increase somehow bumping it up a little but still on a downward slope. This means these bubbles will collapse if they are not constaintly maintained, or if they are engineered in such a way that they undergo a 'big crunch' if they having too much matter ingress in.

This allows for wacky crap like engineering the laws of physics to;

• rotate a field through the folded up dimensions allowing what appears to be instantatious travel over vast space/time distances (aka Xeelee hyperdrive).
• Xeelee construction material is also stuff like 100% energy efficient absorbion to mass conversion, this is an explicit statement and supported by events.
• Monopoles are also constructed this way too.
• The Planck Zero AI is an AI construct inside a region where the planck's constant has been set to zero allowing for infinite divisibility of matter which has profound implications for computing.
• Also, the same tech can be used to change the rate at which a blackhole evaporates into Hawking radiation.

[Darth Wong]

The possible applications of such power is limitless. What if one could somehow instigate vacuum collapse to rewrite physics in a localized environment, control the combination of new Physics from such events and the expansion process? What if it is used as a WMD?

Ideas, anyone?

Here's an idea: in the past, a lot of sci-fi writers have inadvertently dated their work by tying it to some theoretical fringe-science idea (which they might not even have described correctly) which was then subsequently disproven or shown to be highly flawed. What makes you think you wouldn't be doing the same?

[Cesario]

Of course, those authors tended to have at least something to base their rules for Magic A is Magic A on, thus giving them a useable starting point for something that the audience could at least understand.

[Darth Wong]

Of course, those authors tended to have at least something to base their rules for Magic A is Magic A on, thus giving them a useable starting point for something that the audience could at least understand.

Nonsense; all the readers need is technology which has comprehensible and consistent behaviour. That's it; readers don't need more than that.

Pseudoscientific explanations of exactly how that technology works are almost always ill-advised. The author (who is almost never a scientist himself) usually either gets the science horribly wrong or hitches his wagon to the wrong horse (or both).

[Cesario]

Of course, those authors tended to have at least something to base their rules for Magic A is Magic A on, thus giving them a useable starting point for something that the audience could at least understand.

Nonsense; all the readers need is technology which has comprehensible and consistent behaviour. That's it; readers don't need more than that.

Pseudoscientific explanations of exactly how that technology works are almost always ill-advised. The author (who is almost never a scientist himself) usually either gets the science horribly wrong or hitches his wagon to the wrong horse (or both).

Consistent behavior is what Magic A is Magic A means. Sorry, I'll give you a link:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... cAIsMagicA

[Darth Wong]

Of course, those authors tended to have at least something to base their rules for Magic A is Magic A on, thus giving them a useable starting point for something that the audience could at least understand.

Nonsense; all the readers need is technology which has comprehensible and consistent behaviour. That's it; readers don't need more than that.

Pseudoscientific explanations of exactly how that technology works are almost always ill-advised. The author (who is almost never a scientist himself) usually either gets the science horribly wrong or hitches his wagon to the wrong horse (or both).

Consistent behavior is what Magic A is Magic A means. Sorry, I'll give you a link:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... cAIsMagicA

You have a remarkable capacity to miss the point: the problem is your "base their rules on" statement. By basing the behaviour of their technology upon pseudoscience, they are doing exactly what I described.

Silence is often the best policy. The single stupidest sequence in The Matrix, for example, is the part wher Morpheus explains why the machines keep humans in pods. If he had simply said "we don't know", the audience could have speculated. Instead, he said the machines were using us as thermal power plants, which is so fucking stupid that it leaves us grasping for words to describe it.

[Cesario]

Nonsense; all the readers need is technology which has comprehensible and consistent behaviour. That's it; readers don't need more than that.

Pseudoscientific explanations of exactly how that technology works are almost always ill-advised. The author (who is almost never a scientist himself) usually either gets the science horribly wrong or hitches his wagon to the wrong horse (or both).

Consistent behavior is what Magic A is Magic A means. Sorry, I'll give you a link:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... cAIsMagicA

You have a remarkable capacity to miss the point: the problem is your "base their rules on" statement. By basing the behaviour of their technology upon pseudoscience, they are doing exactly what I described.

Yes, they're creating something comprehensible to their audience with consistent behavior. The fact that it's based on pseudoscience rather than pure ass-pull doesn't really change that.

Silence is often the best policy. The single stupidest sequence in The Matrix, for example, is the part wher Morpheus explains why the machines keep humans in pods. If he had simply said "we don't know", the audience could have speculated. Instead, he said the machines were using us as thermal power plants, which is so fucking stupid that it leaves us grasping for words to describe it.

Oh, I agree with this part entirely. No one does talk about how the internal combustion engine works in their day-to-day life, and even engineers who are fixing the damn things will pretty much never talk about the underlying principles rather than naming what parts are broken and how they can or can't be rigged until they get a suitable replacement.

[Darth Wong]

Yes, they're creating something comprehensible to their audience with consistent behavior. The fact that it's based on pseudoscience rather than pure ass-pull doesn't really change that.

It does if the audience can smell the bullshit. It is better to not say how it works, than to explain how it works by taking a giant shit on science.

[Cesario]

Yes, they're creating something comprehensible to their audience with consistent behavior. The fact that it's based on pseudoscience rather than pure ass-pull doesn't really change that.

It does if the audience can smell the bullshit. It is better to not say how it works, than to explain how it works by taking a giant shit on science.

Obviously. I'd read your initial entry into the thread as you claiming that pseudoscience and fringe physics simply weren't a valid source of inspiration period.

Not giving details is usually for the best. But knowing internally what the rules are going to be and sticking to them can be aided by having a "reality check" on the outside, even if that "reality check" isn't the real laws of physics.

[cosmicalstorm]

If you have done so yet, Spacemarine, I highly recommend that you buy and read Schilds Ladder. He literally invents a new set of separate physical laws and so on. Read the Amazon reviews for more information.
http://www.amazon.com/Schilds-Ladder-No ... t_ep_dpt_7