All the Best Toys

[Batman]

Reliably nonlethal stun guns. Suddenly, shooting first and apologizing later if it turns out you were in the wrong become a distinct possibility.

This is so. Funny how much the little things can effect the larger picture. But then, we wouldn't have had much of a space program without teflon and velcro. Sure, good stunguns let you be a lot more trigger happy, unless the people you're shooting at are hanging over a great fall or operating heavy machinery or something.

Which obviously isn't going to happen if you shoot them with rubber bullets or CS gas or something...Oh wait. Your point was?

[lordofchange13]

Define 'meaningful interactions' please. Because speaking for myself I have serious trouble understanding what goes on in the mind of a rapist, or a pedophile, or someone who tortures people for the fun of it, yet curiously enough, all of that have (depressingly frequently) been done by humans.

You can not FULLY understand these criminals but you do understand what drives them to do these actions, a truly alien mind is so vastly different trying to understand their motives would be like trying to turn coal to diamonds by staring at it. the only similarity's you and it would share is that your both formed of matter.

[Ahriman238]

Reliably nonlethal stun guns. Suddenly, shooting first and apologizing later if it turns out you were in the wrong become a distinct possibility.

This is so. Funny how much the little things can effect the larger picture. But then, we wouldn't have had much of a space program without teflon and velcro. Sure, good stunguns let you be a lot more trigger happy, unless the people you're shooting at are hanging over a great fall or operating heavy machinery or something.

Which obviously isn't going to happen if you shoot them with rubber bullets or CS gas or something...Oh wait. Your point was?

That it still wouldn't be a free license to shoot all people in all circumstances. Even if you discount that people will eventually get annoyed with you if you're a bit too trigger happy.

[Simon_Jester]

You can not FULLY understand these criminals but you do understand what drives them to do these actions, a truly alien mind is so vastly different trying to understand their motives would be like trying to turn coal to diamonds by staring at it. the only similarity's you and it would share is that your both formed of matter.

It depends.

No intelligent species will be able to escape the ineluctible logic of cost-benefit analysis. Aliens will still have concepts like "we would do X, but it's too much work," or "this is too dangerous to [thing I value], I won't do it."

How much gut-level sympathy that draws from a human will depend on many variables.

[lordofchange13]

You can not FULLY understand these criminals but you do understand what drives them to do these actions, a truly alien mind is so vastly different trying to understand their motives would be like trying to turn coal to diamonds by staring at it. the only similarity's you and it would share is that your both formed of matter.

It depends.

No intelligent species will be able to escape the ineluctible logic of cost-benefit analysis. Aliens will still have concepts like "we would do X, but it's too much work," or "this is too dangerous to [thing I value], I won't do it."

How much gut-level sympathy that draws from a human will depend on many variables.

True, but the alien mind's idea's of resources and time scales would be greatly different from our own. Though since the hive mind was created by humans, it might be closer to us then actual animals.

[lordofchange13]

Edit: i meant to say Aliens

[Batman]

Which obviously isn't going to happen if you shoot them with rubber bullets or CS gas or something...Oh wait. Your point was?

That it still wouldn't be a free license to shoot all people in all circumstances. Even if you discount that people will eventually get annoyed with you if you're a bit too trigger happy.

You don't say. Where, exactly, have I claimed that? The point remains that with that technology available you have a lot more options in a lot more situations. Hostage situation? Stun everybody. No need to worry about accidentally hitting the hostage. Riot? Stun everybody. Nobody accidentally killed by a rubber bullet to the eye or a CS gas allergy. Cops don't have to worry about killing (or even wounding) a person if and when they have to use their gun (now if you want to argue that it would lead to them using their gun needlessly, that's a whole new ballgame).

[Batman]

True, but the alien mind's idea's of resources and time scales would be greatly different from our own.

Err-why? There's a distinct possibility that it might be but I don't see why it necessarily would. Basically, I'm with Simon on that. Aliens might go with a different cost/benefit ratio than us, but they will understand cost/benefit. They wouldn't have survived to become spacefaring otherwise.

[Ahriman238]

Which obviously isn't going to happen if you shoot them with rubber bullets or CS gas or something...Oh wait. Your point was?

That it still wouldn't be a free license to shoot all people in all circumstances. Even if you discount that people will eventually get annoyed with you if you're a bit too trigger happy.

You don't say. Where, exactly, have I claimed that? The point remains that with that technology available you have a lot more options in a lot more situations. Hostage situation? Stun everybody. No need to worry about accidentally hitting the hostage. Riot? Stun everybody. Nobody accidentally killed by a rubber bullet to the eye or a CS gas allergy. Cops don't have to worry about killing (or even wounding) a person if and when they have to use their gun (now if you want to argue that it would lead to them using their gun needlessly, that's a whole new ballgame).

Peace, Batman. You never said that it was a license to shoot anyone and I never said that you said that. I was merely clarifying. And yes, I think police and military will be a lot quicker to hose down an area with fire if they can do so without collateral damage or permanent harm.

[lordofchange13]

For a completely unserious technology: the medicine you have in Assassins Creed. jump off a 3-4 story building and brake your legs, drink the potions and your at perfect health. Perhaps it is some sort of ancient nanotechnology.

[Batman]

You mean like pretty much every other health powerup in the history of video games?

[lordofchange13]

yes. But every other part of the game makes logical sense, it's just that medicine...

[Batman]

I forgot the freaking smiley again didn't I.

[Rabid]

Yes, you did.

[lordofchange13]

Back to actual examples: The Void at the center of the galaxy from Peter Hamilton's novels is like VR on crack. It created an artifical afterlife and magic.

[NoXion]

The main point behind this is that unless your "technologies that offer radical new capabilities" alters somehow the human mind (for the better or for the worst), it will just become another tool to do the same old things:
-satisfy greed
-have sex
-dominate other men (with or without leather)

That's what the average human wants.

I have so many problems with the "human nature" argument. How does it explain people like me, who have no desire to dominate others? What do I have that this mythical "average human" doesn't, or vice versa? Was that a result of something inherent within me, or was that a result of environmental influences like society and culture (which the "human nature" argument completely ignores)?

As for "greed" I think that is simply a negative portrayal of perfectly reasonable human cravings and desires. Yeah, there are those sick individuals who just wouldn't feel fulfilled without a gold-plated Rolls-Royce, but I imagine the vast majority of people would be satisfied with any comfortable and convenient means of personal transport, if nothing else because it would be a vast improvement on Shanks' pony (remembering that most people on this planet do not own a car!).

Sex is the only one listed that I would consider a human constant, but it's actually a perfect example of how basic human drives are filtered through the lens of society and culture. We come up with all sorts of weird practices and ideas when it comes to sex, and also despite the fact that it is vital to the perpetuation of the species - one can't get any more essential than that, save perhaps the desire to live - despite that, most people are able at least to wait until their partner consents before going ahead. Then you have the asexual folks, something which should never happen if the die-hard "human nature"-believers are correct.

I apologise for going off on this rant/tangent, but I find the "human nature" argument especially despicable in light of the fact that it is often used to justify the status quo. It's a modern canard in that respect, analogous to the feudal notion that kings and emperors had a "divine right" to rule. Yet here we are in the 21st century, and most countries don't even have royalty.