X-Men's Apocalypse In A Sci Fi Setting

[Ahriman238]

Invincible, Apocalypse is not. He's been killed at least 3 times to my knowledge, by Magneto in AoA, by Cable in the distant future, and by a possessed Cyclops (it's a really long story.)

He is almost obscenely powerful on a personal level, but depends too much on his technology and his minions too not be severly weakend without them. I'm not sure how much of the Celestials' hardware he really has access to, but his medical technology and knowledge is considered extremely advanced for the Marvel universe. He was able to give Angel hollow metal prosthetics that regenerated his actual wings over time, for example.

[MrDakka]

Invincible, Apocalypse is not. He's been killed [..] by a possessed Cyclops (it's a really long story.)

Which arc was that?

[Cykeisme]

But you are correct that the radically different power levels make comic team-ups implausible. With the Avengers movie, I can buy Iron Man, Hulk, and Thor being on the same team. They're powerful guys. Captain America doesn't seem to be operating at that kind of level. Black Widow, is she supposed to be super-powered or a Charles Atlas hero? I know the archer guy is just supposed to be really good at shooting arrows. Shit, at least the Widow is using a 20th century weapon! I mean shit, would it sound stupid to have a "Greatest American Air Force Team!" where you have an F-22, F-15, F-16 and, oh, say a P-51 as a super sentai group? Sounds absurd. The P-51 would be hard-pressed against Vietnam-era MiG relics, let alone anything from the late 20th century.

Just pointing out, the souped-up (but not yet Abominable) Blonsky that Movie Hulk fought on the college campus was a watered-down version of Move Captain America. So even full-on Movie Cap may not be as strong as Movie Hulk, but they might be in the same league (or at least within a league of each other ).

It was discussed here:
++http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... &start=100

Okay, sorry to take the derailment train for a spin, back to regularly scheduled programming.

[Simon_Jester]

It depends on the premise of the teamup. Is it really all about sending the same group of guys to deal with all situations? In that case, they need roughly equivalent resources and power to accomplish anything, as you say. Or is it about making sure the group always has the right skill sets to handle a problem? Because in that case, it makes more sense to team up, say, Superman and Batman.

Any problem that can be solved by punching it, Superman can probably solve- but even if he's not stupid or ignorant, he's not qualified to solve a lot of scientific or technical problems. Teaming him up with people who know how to handle things like that complements his strength with a different strength.

Likewise, Black Widow makes some sense teamed up with someone like the Thor, not because she can fight him, but because she can do things he isn't good at. An archer guy makes less sense, since his schtick is all about fighting and he's not good enough as a fighter to keep up.

[Ahriman238]

Invincible, Apocalypse is not. He's been killed [..] by a possessed Cyclops (it's a really long story.)

Which arc was that?

The Twelve. Apocalypse as discussed above stole the powers of the 12 most powerful mutants (including Scott's) to give him the power needed to overcome X-Man (Scott and Jean's son from an alternate universe, and maybe the most powerful psychic in the series) in a battle of wills and possess him, so Apocalypse could live forever with far greater powers. However, Scott took Nate's place in the high-tech ritual circle thing and got possessed by Apocalypse instead. Then he committed suicide to take Apocalypse with him.

I'd say it all made more sense in context, but it didn't. It really didn't.

It depends on the premise of the teamup. Is it really all about sending the same group of guys to deal with all situations? In that case, they need roughly equivalent resources and power to accomplish anything, as you say. Or is it about making sure the group always has the right skill sets to handle a problem? Because in that case, it makes more sense to team up, say, Superman and Batman.

Any problem that can be solved by punching it, Superman can probably solve- but even if he's not stupid or ignorant, he's not qualified to solve a lot of scientific or technical problems. Teaming him up with people who know how to handle things like that complements his strength with a different strength.

Likewise, Black Widow makes some sense teamed up with someone like the Thor, not because she can fight him, but because she can do things he isn't good at. An archer guy makes less sense, since his schtick is all about fighting and he's not good enough as a fighter to keep up.

This. One of the few things Civil War got right was a scene where Tony and Carol are discussing the new Avengers lineup. Carol asks why they don't just grab 8 or 9 of the most powerful superhumans available and call it a day. Tony rebukes her, saying that the avengers were more than just Thor or Tony's backup, they a meeting of vastly different skills and mindsets, and thus had the flexibility to deal with any challenge.

[Solauren]

I'm still waiting for proof that apocalypse can sense a transporter beam activating on him and somehow alter his molecules to prevent demolecularization.

[Demiurgas]

I'm still waiting for proof that apocalypse can sense a transporter beam activating on him and somehow alter his molecules to prevent demolecularization.

Maybe he can't, but he does possess very strong psionic powers he could probably sense it.

[Batman]

I'm still waiting for proof that apocalypse can sense a transporter beam activating on him and somehow alter his molecules to prevent demolecularization.

Maybe he can't, but he does possess very strong psionic powers he could probably sense it.

Based on what? Strong psionic powers means...nothing much, actually. At best it says that whatever psionic powers he has are strong. Him being, say, a strong telepath or telekinetic or mind-bender or anything else doesn't necessarily mean he'd know he's about to be beamed up. Now I don't know much about Apocalypse so it's entirely possible he has displayed this ability at some point in time, but just because he has 'very strong psionic powers' isn't any reason to assume he could.

[Demiurgas]

Well like I said, I conceeded that I could be wrong. I just think it 'might" not work either.

[Simon_Jester]

Put it this way, Demi.

Is there any reason whatsoever to think that this guy has any ability whatsoever to resist teleportation? It's not like that's a normal ability. We might infer from "he's bulletproof" that he's also laserproof within reason. We might infer from knowing that his arms are very strong that his legs are also very strong. We might infer that because he can see Invisible Mutant Chick, he can also see Guy With Cloaking Device or whatever.

But what possible basis do we have for saying he's teleport-proof?

[Demiurgas]

He has superior healing regeneration. Better than Wolverine's. How much more better is the question.

[lance]

Can he project a field or turn himself into different materials like those that caused teleporter problems in teleporter problem of the season eps?

[Simon_Jester]

He has superior healing regeneration. Better than Wolverine's. How much more better is the question.

Why would being very good at regeneration have anything to do with teleportation?

[Demiurgas]

I already mentioned Apocalypse has total molecular control over his body.
Healing regeneration occurs BECAUSE of his molecular control over his body.

[Simon_Jester]

So, why would molecular control have anything to do with teleportation?

Does his molecular control make him immune to being picked up and thrown, a la "go be invulnerable in Jersey?" If I put him in a moving vehicle against his will, can he use "molecular control" to prevent himself from moving, and rip out through the back of the vehicle without having to do anything or strike at the vehicle with his own strength?

If not, why the hell would this affect him being teleported? Does molecular control stop someone from just picking up all his molecules at once and shoving them somewhere else?

[mr friendly guy]

Molecular control in comics usually means some form of shapeshifting and also resistance to injury. For examples the Eternals could reform after being disintegrated, eg Avengers vol 1 ?#310. However all this means is that you need a powerful enough attack which can disrupt their molecular control. For example the Deviants used a type of disentegrator against the Eternals, it disentegrated Sersi's arm eg Avengers vol 1 ?#370. However since her brain was still intact, when she recovered she just recreated her arm with her ability to maintain molecular control over her own molecules.

If teleportation works by "breaking down" you molecules and reassembling them, theoretically someone with molecular control could resist. Whether they can resist successfully however is another matter.

[Demiurgas]

Molecular control in comics usually means some form of shapeshifting and also resistance to injury. For examples the Eternals could reform after being disintegrated, eg Avengers vol 1 ?#310. However all this means is that you need a powerful enough attack which can disrupt their molecular control. For example the Deviants used a type of disentegrator against the Eternals, it disentegrated Sersi's arm eg Avengers vol 1 ?#370. However since her brain was still intact, when she recovered she just recreated her arm with her ability to maintain molecular control over her own molecules.

If teleportation works by "breaking down" you molecules and reassembling them, theoretically someone with molecular control could resist. Whether they can resist successfully however is another matter.

^
This

[Simon_Jester]

Well, what does it mean to say that it works by breaking down your molecules? Is it physically separating your molecules and reassembling them elsewhere? If so, then resisting it might actually be a bad idea, sort of like trying to stop your car from skidding by turning the steering wheel against the direction of the skid.

That would be hilarious- this superpowerful mutant receives a benign offer of transport off the planet in a Star Trek teleporter, he accepts, someone beams him up- and his own attempt to resist being beamed up accidentally scatters his molecules across half the world.

And what if it's simply grabbing your molecules and moving them through some higher dimensional space? Maybe teleportation is in that regard no different from being picked up bodily and thrown to another place. In which case you couldn't really resist it, at least not by those means.

[PhilosopherOfSorts]

You know, I'm pretty sure Apocalypse has been teleported against his will before, during the "X-cutioner's Song" arc, back in the early 90's.

[Demiurgas]

You know, I'm pretty sure Apocalypse has been teleported against his will before, during the "X-cutioner's Song" arc, back in the early 90's.

Kay.